Theories On the Origin of Black

[Shinomori]

If Zamasu had a hand in creating Black, or is Black himself, why did he come to universe 7 to stir up trouble? By the way, what does he mean by "humans"? If he really had a problem with earh's humans, he should have a problem with every creature that we've ever seen in the Dragon Ball universe. What, he doesn't have a problem with Frieza's race? This is very confusing stuff.

Very confusing.

Mistranslated, as it seems, every subtitle from Black, Zamasu and Gowasu where it says "human", is supposed to be "mortals".

Something about the universes is contradictory to the initial information we got about them. Universe 6 and 7 were said to be very identical, making one conclude that Earth exists only on these two universes (maybe that's just me). If Earth exists on Universe 10, then we are dealing with parallel universes here, 12 (18) of them. If that is the case, current Future Trunks should logically belong to the Universe 10 reality?

Then again, if the potential case with Earth being only in U6 and U7, wtf are they up to from U10 messing around on U7.

Also, Vados said that Earth in U6 was destroyed by internal wars, maybe that's Black's work (or just a parody of our actual reality).

I dont know what I'm talking about anymore, time is so confusing, and i aint got any.

I recently thought perhaps Zamasu could be from U6 (though this still wouldn't explain why he's messing around in U7), but was sent to U10 to train as a Kaioshin. That would make some sense to me, being that U10 is known as the Kaioshin realm. Yet from what we know from the show itself, he is from U10. Another theory is he and all the Kaios are born in U10, and then they are sent out to govern other universes. Hopefully all will become clear as the show goes on.

[Ozotto]

My speculation is,

Zamasu creates Black unintentionally, the hatred, darkness, or black in his heart is expelled and manifests into an entity known as Black, and it takes the shape Goku based on his fears and animosity.

The reason I think this is because the whole making tea training thing, and the perfect tea can only be made with a pure heart.

[Alruneia]

If present Zamasu creates Black, I can absolutely see it being like Kami expelling King Piccolo. Perhaps Gowasu discovers that Zamasu's heart isn't pure anymore after his battle against Goku (it's not exactly pure to hate mortals and that match definitely gave him some thoughts) and forces him to expel that evil, and the evil manifests into a dark version of Goku because he's the source of most of that hatred. However, as far as I can tell, Black is from the future timeline, so Future Zamasu should have created him, then, and there is no way Future Goku could ever meet Future Zamasu. Therefore, the source of Black, and the reason for him to look like Goku, has to be something else. I really like the fission idea, though. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Pluto]

No, it is not mistranslated. Toriyama just uses the term ningen/human in Dragon Ball differently, than what people would in other series and in the real world, if we ever encountered aliens.

Basically in Dragon Ball, "human" can refer to Earthlings, but not exclusively, as the likes of Ginyu calls himself a human too and so does the Kaioshin in regards to the Saiyans. So it would seem that every humanoid species in the universe, who are not gods can just be referred to as humans, drawing a line between humans and gods.
This is why for the casual viewer, it's easier to just have them be called "mortals" instead of humans, as that gets the point across better, but human(s) is the proper translation.

I see, are you Japanese btw?

So it is more of a literary translation, that adds even more to the confusion as i watched DB/DBZ in German, all the Movies and DBGT in English, and now Super in Japanese translated. Cultural differences i guess.

[dbgtFO]

No, it is not mistranslated. Toriyama just uses the term ningen/human in Dragon Ball differently, than what people would in other series and in the real world, if we ever encountered aliens.

Basically in Dragon Ball, "human" can refer to Earthlings, but not exclusively, as the likes of Ginyu calls himself a human too and so does the Kaioshin in regards to the Saiyans. So it would seem that every humanoid species in the universe, who are not gods can just be referred to as humans, drawing a line between humans and gods.
This is why for the casual viewer, it's easier to just have them be called "mortals" instead of humans, as that gets the point across better, but human(s) is the proper translation.

I see, are you Japanese btw?

So it is more of a literary translation, that adds even more to the confusion as i watched DB/DBZ in German, all the Movies and DBGT in English, and now Super in Japanese translated. Cultural differences i guess.

No, I'm Danish
When you have been on the forums for so long however and you are interested in in-universe discussion you'll inevitably come along this topic.
Also for further reading Herms has a whole thread on this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13915

[namekiansaiyan]

If Zamasu created Black then just like Babidi who released Buu and Android 20 who created Cell then he will ultimately get a chop by Piccolo.

[DainIronfoot]

If Zamasu created Black then just like Babidi who released Buu and Android 20 who created Cell then he will ultimately get a chop by Piccolo.

The db Hero's thing may not always be reflective of the anime but I was really interested when I saw in the trailer Zamasu had 1 Green earring on like Black. To me it points to this theory that he was involved in the creation of Black.

And yes he needs a PiccoloChop

[GodKaio-Ken]

If Zamasu had a hand in creating Black, or is Black himself, why did he come to universe 7 to stir up trouble? By the way, what does he mean by "humans"? If he really had a problem with earh's humans, he should have a problem with every creature that we've ever seen in the Dragon Ball universe. What, he doesn't have a problem with Frieza's race? This is very confusing stuff.

Very confusing.

Mistranslated, as it seems, every subtitle from Black, Zamasu and Gowasu where it says "human", is supposed to be "mortals".

No, it is not mistranslated. Toriyama just uses the term ningen/human in Dragon Ball differently, than what people would in other series and in the real world, if we ever encountered aliens.

Basically in Dragon Ball, "human" can refer to Earthlings, but not exclusively, as the likes of Ginyu calls himself a human too and so does the Kaioshin in regards to the Saiyans. So it would seem that every humanoid species in the universe, who are not gods can just be referred to as humans, drawing a line between humans and gods.
This is why for the casual viewer, it's easier to just have them be called "mortals" instead of humans, as that gets the point across better, but human(s) is the proper translation.

This. Basically all intelligent sentient non-gods in DB are humans.

[Analytical Delusion]

As an aside, this is the first major 'mystery' the series has had for awhile, isn't it? Last time there was something like this was probably the events leading up to the introduction of Cell.

I guess the question of whether Gohan was killed or not in the Buu saga kinda qualifies to some extent, but that wasn't the same thing.

Either way, this is very refreshing. Hope they keep us guessing for a while.

[SSJ Human]

Either way, this is very refreshing. Hope they keep us guessing for a while.

All the way up until next year.

[Makai]

Kinda leaning towards this theory after seeing the new DB Heroes trailer.

[ryou766]

Is Zamasu just wearing one earring in the Heroes trailer? If so, he might have killed Gowasu, stole both earrings, placed one on his ear and the other on Black's.

[Swifticuffs]

If Zamasu had a hand in creating Black, or is Black himself, why did he come to universe 7 to stir up trouble? By the way, what does he mean by "humans"? If he really had a problem with earh's humans, he should have a problem with every creature that we've ever seen in the Dragon Ball universe. What, he doesn't have a problem with Frieza's race? This is very confusing stuff.

Very confusing.

Mistranslated, as it seems, every subtitle from Black, Zamasu and Gowasu where it says "human", is supposed to be "mortals".

Something about the universes is contradictory to the initial information we got about them. Universe 6 and 7 were said to be very identical, making one conclude that Earth exists only on these two universes (maybe that's just me). If Earth exists on Universe 10, then we are dealing with parallel universes here, 12 (18) of them. If that is the case, current Future Trunks should logically belong to the Universe 10 reality?

Then again, if the potential case with Earth being only in U6 and U7, wtf are they up to from U10 messing around on U7.

Also, Vados said that Earth in U6 was destroyed by internal wars, maybe that's Black's work (or just a parody of our actual reality).

I dont know what I'm talking about anymore, time is so confusing, and i aint got any.

I recently thought perhaps Zamasu could be from U6 (though this still wouldn't explain why he's messing around in U7), but was sent to U10 to train as a Kaioshin. That would make some sense to me, being that U10 is known as the Kaioshin realm. Yet from what we know from the show itself, he is from U10. Another theory is he and all the Kaios are born in U10, and then they are sent out to govern other universes. Hopefully all will become clear as the show goes on.

Wait, isn't that an inaccurate deduction? Or did I read a poor translation? I thought U10 was like any other universe. And that Beerus/Whis took Gokuu to the Kaioshin Realm OF Universe 10. Not that Universe 10 WAS the Kaioshin Realm...

Thanks for clarification.

[Pannaliciour]

If Zamasu created Black, why the hell didn't Zamasu enjoyed the hits/pain he got from Goku like Black did. Thats a great ability to have for yourself, not to give away.

[ChronoTwigger]

For sure, the whole thing have created some hype. Many theories rise and that's nice.
Many of them are quite reasonable and fascinating, others too but out of DB standards.

Anyway, this is my official one.

Goku meet Zamasu and Zamasu get impressed by Goku strenght.
As for episode 50:
Black likewise says this is an “honor”: he’d wanted to trying fighting Goku in “this body”. Goku wonders what he means by that, but Black says he doesn’t need to know.


So, my theory is that Zamasu fail is training and his dark, violent soul trapped in the green earring. Gowasu try to control that soul, but in fact Zamasu end to control Gowasu.
In the alternative timeline, Goku is dead by the heart virus.
Using the time ring, Gowasu (possessed) go to that timeline, use the Super Dragon Balls to get the body of Goku, and use the earring to transfer that Zamasu soul in Goku body.

So, in the end, the true "enemy"... is the earring.

There's any possible mistake?

[Xeztin]

My theory as of now: Goku meeting Zamasu is what sparked the creation of Black, Zamasu learned he couldn't "get revenge" on Goku and surely not humanity especially Earth with people like Goku and Vegeta around. He ends up giving his own life for the creation of Black to carry on his will and in Goku's image just because, he also probably has Zamasu's memories. I believe that there are a Future Black, Zamasu and alternate timeline different from Trunks which is why "future" Black is here now. I believe our Zamasu will create Black as well and Black and Future Black will fuse giving [spoiler]SSJ Pink[/spoiler]. That's the only way I can make sense of all this assuming that the form is on-par with SSJB. It's a pretty big jump for him to do it on his own. Also Zamasu taking Goku's DNA during the fight would be a good nod to Toyotaro from his AF manga.


I do like your idea of an evil spirit or something of the sorts being the in ear ring!

[Anime Kitten]

That would be amazing if it happened. The earring is the true enemy, I love it! Too bad the show probably won't go that route.

[Blackstripe]

I think the latest episode of super warrants giving this thread a bump!

We now know that Black and Zamasu are different people. This lends credence to my theory that Zamasu created Black, though that has yet to be explicitly confirmed. What are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

[Hugo Boss]

I think the theory became much stronger after seeing episode 56. Really, It seems Black is Zamasu's masterpiece to destroy humanity.

[Lord Beerus]

Black and Zamasu are most definitely not the same person judging from the latest episode of Super. The theory that Black was created by Zamasu is dead in th ware for because nothing indicates that Black is Zamasu's creation. I know will point to the fact the Black and Zamasu have similar ki being a strong indication of that, but just because they have similar ki doesn't mean that Zamasu created Black, I think it just means that they have similar ki. That's it. They're most like implying that Black and Zamasu both have Goldy ki more than anything given how strong Black is and the position of Kaioshin that Zamasu has which grants him access to Goldy ki. It seems more like Goku Black and Zamasu just know each other and and are just associates working together because they have the same goal and ideal of hating mortals and wanting to wipe them all out.