How are they going to top Merged Zamasu?

[Retan]

How about someone Zeno vanished but couldn't quite destroy who's only grown stronger in time? Or would that be too much? Maybe a someone from one of the other 6 universes, and now has an agenda against Zeno, but can't destroy Zeno so goes after his friends. Maybe they could give the reason that that's the reason Zeno destroyed those universes is because they were under this persons control? OF course this would have to be after the 12 universe Saga.

[Ki Breaker]

I've got it!

Being as how the Angels Grand Priest, Whis and Vados and possibly others of their kind are on a level above the Gods like Beerus, Champa and the Supreme Kai's then the next step in order for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Super Saiyan Blue Vegito is to become....

Super Saiyan Angels! Complete with white hair and the white rainbowish aura of Fusion Zamasu.

A very good and refreshing idea..
I would very much like it..

But not name them super Saiyan angels..
That doesn't fit imo..
How about just angels..Say they achieved angelhood ( is that a thing? I know godhood is )..
Just say Goku became an angel..

Then when they transform say he became a super angel..

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Bring an enemy that can't be beaten by brute force and that is treatening by other means outside of strenght, for example in NARUTO one of the main villans had the power of phasing, making the villant almost night-invulnerable to characters that were far stronger (some that could spam nukes) than him (in comparison that villan was only slightly stronger than an average fit man).

Not everything needs to involve strenght.

[Bullza]

Bring an enemy that can't be beaten by brute force and that is treatening by other means outside of strenght, for example in NARUTO one of the main villans had the power of phasing, making the villant almost night-invulnerable to characters that were far stronger (some that could spam nukes) than him (in comparison that villan was only slightly stronger than an average fit man).

Not everything needs to involve strenght.

That's sort of what they're doing now with Zamasu and his immortality isn't it? Babidi was also that kind of villain.

Even that villain you're referring to was capable of going up against Naruto, Kakashi and Guy at the same time.

Dragon Ball has a formula that's worked really well for it. I don't know how well it would work if they moved away from it. For example one of Superman's main adversarys is a ordinary human but who is a genius. Dragon Ball could have had that with Dr Gero except they kind of wasted it. Plus they don't really give a shit like Superman they'd just kill him.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Even that villain you're referring to was capable of going up against Naruto, Kakashi and Guy at the same time.

Because of his hax powers, not because of brute force.

[Bullza]

Even that villain you're referring to was capable of going up against Naruto, Kakashi and Guy at the same time.

Because of his hax powers, not because of brute force.

Well that was part of it but even without the intangibility he was fast and strong enough to keep up with Tailed Cloak mode Naruto and he could fire those huge shuriken and rods and he could fire that huge fire blast. He was still really powerful.

I get what you mean though but yeah they kinda had that idea with Babidi. Outside of the anime there's also Towa who isn't the strongest but was a huge threat and if you include Dr Gero as well then for all three characters it came down to them either controlling or creating a strong being.

I do think it could be different to see someone with little power or even no power be a threat but I'm not sure how they could go about doing it.

[Acetona]

I think him being sealed with Mafūba or techniques like Dead Zone is out of the game right now. Not because of that seal stuff, but because of Black's scythe. It seems he's able to cut through dimensions, so he won't be trapped by them.

I'm really curious to see what will happen to him and I hope it won't end up being something lame...

[Cipher]

I get what you mean though but yeah they kinda had that idea with Babidi. Outside of the anime there's also Towa who isn't the strongest but was a huge threat and if you include Dr Gero as well then for all three characters it came down to them either controlling or creating a strong being.

To be fair, none of those characters are really viewed as the "main villain" of their arcs; the creations get the better of them at some point.

Zamasu's probably the closest Dragon Ball has come to a main supervillain who's threatening via techniques despite being weaker, but Black is still a power-house and the focal villain for much the arc, and this new fused form has his strength. The final form of Boo also winds up potentially weaker than his opponents' maximum strength, but for most of the arc, he's well ahead, and since Goku can't access his full power, he winds up stronger than everyone he's facing on the Kaioshin planet as well.

It would kind of be new territory. I wouldn't mind it. I guess it should be noted that the manga version of Hit also gives us a final antagonist who isn't stronger than the heroes, but maintains an advantage due to his techniques, though he isn't really a villain and Goku's stronger forms still win out.

[HeroR]

Bring an enemy that can't be beaten by brute force and that is treatening by other means outside of strenght, for example in NARUTO one of the main villans had the power of phasing, making the villant almost night-invulnerable to characters that were far stronger (some that could spam nukes) than him (in comparison that villan was only slightly stronger than an average fit man).

Not everything needs to involve strenght.

That's sort of what they're doing now with Zamasu and his immortality isn't it? Babidi was also that kind of villain.

Even that villain you're referring to was capable of going up against Naruto, Kakashi and Guy at the same time.

Dragon Ball has a formula that's worked really well for it. I don't know how well it would work if they moved away from it. For example one of Superman's main adversarys is a ordinary human but who is a genius. Dragon Ball could have had that with Dr Gero except they kind of wasted it. Plus they don't really give a shit like Superman they'd just kill him.

Lex is only a threat because Superman can't kill him without becoming 'corrupted'. Just like the reason why Batman can't waste the Joker. This is mostly an American comic idea, and isn't carried over into most manga, especially Dragon Ball, where it's shown keeping irredeemable people alive is highly irresponsible and naive.

It would kind of be new territory. I wouldn't mind it. I guess it should be noted that the manga version of Hit also gives us a final antagonist who isn't stronger than the heroes, but maintains an advantage due to his techniques, though he isn't really a villain and Goku's stronger forms still win out.

Even in the anime, Hit was inferior power and speed wise to Goku. He only increased his Time-Skip and hitting vital points that cripples people.

[WittyUsername]

Am I the only one who feels that having an angel as the next villain would basically just be a rehash of Zamasu, except stronger?

[MagmonKai]

Am I the only one who feels that having an angel as the next villain would basically just be a rehash of Zamasu, except stronger?

I'm not for an "Angel" being the next villain, but I don't see how it's the same? Angels in the Dragonball Universe aren't immortal are they?

[WittyUsername]

Am I the only one who feels that having an angel as the next villain would basically just be a rehash of Zamasu, except stronger?

I'm not for an "Angel" being the next villain, but I don't see how it's the same? Angels in the Dragonball Universe aren't immortal are they?

The same in that both would involve a deity being the main antagonist, and I can't imagine what kind of motivation an angel would have as a villain, other than wanting to kill mortals/rule the Universe, like Zamasu.

[Xeztin]

If we use the 10 scale again I feel like Vegeta is on about a 6, Goku about a 5, and Trunks about a 5. I'd put Merged Zamasu on about a 8.5. I really don't think he's THAT powerful, because SSJB was around SSJB Vegeta and Zamasu was weak except for his immortality. Honestly the only real difference that should be gained from fusion is the immortality, because Zamasu has so little power compared to Black that it shouldn't make a difference. It's basically Black with immortality to me and the only way to defeat him is probably beating him down weak with Vegito and using the Mafuba on him.

In terms of generally speaking, Merged Zamasu will probably be the biggest threat we ever see but not because of his strength, but because of his immortality and his access to time-rings. If Vegito appears we'll most likely never see him again, and there are tons of universes that they can pull all kinds of enemy's from. The only reason Zamasu is so powerful is because of his immortality and the fact he stole Goku's body. Without those 2 things he'd still be on SSJ2 level. Also if it wasn't for immortality, I'd bet that a SSJB Goku, Vegeta, and Super Trunks could defeat Merged Zamasu. The only cause for Vegito to show up to me, is because of the immortality factor so it'll probably be more new forms instead of fusion after this.

It should be fairly easy to top Merged Zamasu in terms of power excluding immortality, but it's going to be very hard to top the background/story/plot of this arc! I felt like Toriyama pulled no punches except on Zamasu being Black instead of Goten or someone else.

[HeroR]

If we use the 10 scale again I feel like Vegeta is on about a 6, Goku about a 5, and Trunks about a 5. I'd put Merged Zamasu on about a 8.5. I really don't think he's THAT powerful, because SSJB was around SSJB Vegeta and Zamasu was weak except for his immortality. Honestly the only real difference that should be gained from fusion is the immortality, because Zamasu has so little power compared to Black that it shouldn't make a difference. It's basically Black with immortality to me and the only way to defeat him is probably beating him down weak with Vegito and using the Mafuba on him.

In terms of generally speaking, Merged Zamasu will probably be the biggest threat we ever see but not because of his strength, but because of his immortality and his access to time-rings. If Vegito appears we'll most likely never see him again, and there are tons of universes that they can pull all kinds of enemy's from. The only reason Zamasu is so powerful is because of his immortality and the fact he stole Goku's body. Without those 2 things he'd still be on SSJ2 level. Also if it wasn't for immortality, I'd bet that a SSJB Goku, Vegeta, and Super Trunks could defeat Merged Zamasu. The only cause for Vegito to show up to me, is because of the immortality factor so it'll probably be more new forms instead of fusion after this.

It should be fairly easy to top Merged Zamasu in terms of power excluding immortality, but it's going to be very hard to top the background/story/plot of this arc! I felt like Toriyama pulled no punches except on Zamasu being Black instead of Goten or someone else.

Power-wise, Future Zamasu can trade blows with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. He isn't that weak. He only appears that way because he keeps his guard open since he's an immortal and doesn't bother to dodge stuff. Basically, the reason why Black didn't want it. And Vegeta had almost no power compared to Goku, who had Super Saiyan 3, yet they still formed Vegetto who proceeded to waste Super Buu. So Future Zamasu being weaker than Black doesn't really matter. Also, Future Zamasu is strong because he's 17 years older than Present Zamasu and he's a prodigy.

And it's too soon to call Merged Zamasu 'weak' since he haven't even seen him fight.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well Rou Kaioshin said that Vegito was a stronger fusion than normal since Goku and Vegeta were rivals. So I figured a potara fusion between two people who not only aren't rivals, but are actually the same person would be weaker if anything.

i.e.

Two random people = standard multiplier
Two rivals = increased multiplier
Two people with no conflict between them = weaker multiplier
Two versions of the same person = even weaker multiplier

[Bullza]

Am I the only one who feels that having an angel as the next villain would basically just be a rehash of Zamasu, except stronger?

I'm not for an "Angel" being the next villain, but I don't see how it's the same? Angels in the Dragonball Universe aren't immortal are they?

The same in that both would involve a deity being the main antagonist, and I can't imagine what kind of motivation an angel would have as a villain, other than wanting to kill mortals/rule the Universe, like Zamasu.

You have a point which is why if they are going to have an Angel as a villain then it shouldn't be yet. It could still work though as long as they gave him completely different motivations and a different personality.

Toriyama does a good job making each of his villains feel distinct so I don't think that would be an issue.

[apex_pretador]

It looked like [spoiler]Gogeta[/spoiler] appears in next ep preview, although I may be wrong.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'm sure after Goku defeated Kami and Piccolo, fans were wondering the same thing, but Toriyama came up with many more villians.

[Bullza]

I think I maybe should have worded the thread title a little differently.

What I was mainly trying to get is if Goku and Vegeta need to become Super Saiyan Blue Vegito in order to beat Merged Zamasu then how are they going to introduce even stronger villains afterward but without them having to fuse every time.

Are they going to give Goku and Vegeta a new form which surpasses SSJB Vegito just like they became Super Saiyan God's in order to surpass Super Vegito.

[Shi_Neko13]

I'd really like to see a villain with some good henchmen. It was cool in the Namek saga that Frieza had all those extra guys and even with the Ginyu Force and Zarbon and Dodoria, it really enhanced the tension because not only were Krillin and Gohan outmatched they were outnumbered too. We kind of got a henchmen situation with Babidi and crew but they weren't much to compare to. I'd like to see even Goku and Vegeta struggle as they battle their way up to the main enemy.

IMO, Bojack and his crew were some of the coolest designs and characters in any of the movies and a full-blown Bojack saga that had kid Gohan in the orange gi as the main character would've been an awesome arc between Cell and Buu, but oh well that's in the past... but maybe they could do something with those characters or characters like them. There's the whole "Demon Realm" that barely got touched on in Z and was expanded in the games, might be cool.

Of course, the main issue is that our 2 main characters are overpowered and the next enemy would have to be stronger than them which makes all our other favorite characters non-players. That's no good, I liked the good ol' days when the other fighters were relevant (and in danger and died! remember when characters used to die??), so maybe the solution to this is a villain who isn't particularly strong on their own but has a decent group of henchmen gathers the Super Dragon Balls and wishes for the saiyans to regress or lose their Super Saiyan abilities or something to that effect. Basically, reset our good guys to a lower level of power. There'd have to be some plot point that prevents them from using earth's dragon balls but it would be a way to cool off all these God forms and bring the scope of the series back to how it was in the saiyan/namek sagas.