What was the point of Goku and Vegeta training 3 years in the ROSAT?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Vegeta should be at or a little bit past it now. They were 42 and 47 before that RoSaT trip if I did my math right.

I was disappointed in how little of that training we saw. I had higher hopes with how in depth the Cell Arc RoSaT went.

Goku should still be in his 30's, he was dead for nearly a decade after all.

I didn't count his 7 years dead. He's 35 then.

34, as he also spent almost a year dead in the Saiyan Arc. This leads me to wonder, though, will Goku have to watch Vegeta die? Saiyans maintain their youth for pretty much their whole lives, so Goku may have to watch his rival become old and decrepit and eventually die while he himself is still in his prime.

[Chuquita]

Didn't his year in the RoSaT with Gohan neutralize the year he didn't age when he was dead in the saiyan arc? I could be wrong.

I imagine when Vegeta does hit that final age jump it's going to depress Gokû just as much as it will Vegeta, maybe more with how Gokû's been enjoying hanging around him in Super.

[Alee9977]

To get stronger, to train their techniques, to polish the SSB transformation (it used to be more difficult to transform for them, and now they do it withoug any problems).

[Nejishiki]

Vegeta didn't contradict himself. Training for the sake of training and training towards a goal are separate occasions. Competition and experience are what push and improve oneself. Practice is for the sake of refining application. Vegeta found a challenge in Goku Black, thus he had a clearer idea where to develop his training. There's precedence: Dragon Team doesn't become strong as quickly during peacetime than they do in direct confrontation episodes. Normally, they discover advanced methods of training to overcome their current wall during crisis. That vibes well with how improvement happens. You game-plan for the obstacle or opponent met. If anything is "limited", it's the Room of Spirit and Time, not the martial artists. Perhaps they've maximized the world's benefits? Dende may need to make the environment harsher next time.

I agree with the principle of this thread. 3 years was overkill. I'm not sure why it was necessary when a shorter trip, let's say 6 months, would suffice in informing the audience that Goku and Vegeta need something new. The idea of stronger opposition is nothing like witnessing them in person.

[LightBing]

In the context of the arc, it might have been to hype up the tournament even if it didn't amount to much. While giving a sense of progression, if the characters trained they are stronger, even if there isn't a transformation to illustrate it. Although three years was a lot!

Another reason its to reintroduce the RoSaT for future use. It already produced results with Vegeta.

[Lord Beerus]

I didn't get it either. I think it was just fluff created to pad out the time from when the Champa arc would begin while also making the fights that would happen against the Universe 6 fighters seem all the more tough. The anime at least had some kind of justification of Goku being able to use the Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue, but even then spending three years in the ROSAT? That's way too long. But then again, it may also explain why Goku and Vegeta have seeming seemingly been getting stronger at the drop of hat. Perhaps the gains that they made in the ROSAT didn't kick in until recent for... reasons. The manga, however, wrote into a corner by introducing the stamina bullshit. Because now, once the manga depicts the fight between SSJB Goku/Vegeta and Zamasu and Goku Black, it will literally last about 5-10 pages because they will max out SSJB almost immediately if they go all out.

[Nejishiki]

Goku mentioned Super Saiyan Blue's stamina usage in the anime, too. It just means they'll have to hold their forms in the manga continuity. The anime continuity allows their characters to switch it on and off consecutively.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In the manga continuity (if you add the movies along), I believe that they mastered the SSG power, which replaced the Saiyan beyond God state with the Super Saiyan God form, which is why their base form is at the old regular level (below Namek arc Freeza) & they can use the regular SS1/2/3 forms again. In the manga, before RoSaT the only form they used was Super Saiyan Blue. I mean, why did Vegeta use SSB instead of just SS against base Goku in chapter 5? Because SSB was the only form he could use at that point. By learning how to turn into a Super Saiyan God at will, the SSG power from their base form, aka the Saiyan beyond God state, disappeared.

And yes, even Vegeta can most likely use Super Saiyan God. Unlike in the anime, Toriyama implied that in his continuity Vegeta went through the same process as Goku to become Super Saiyan Blue.

[ekrolo2]

In the manga continuity (if you add the movies along), I believe that they mastered the SSG power, which replaced the Saiyan beyond God state with the Super Saiyan God form, which is why their base form is at the old regular level (below Namek arc Freeza) & they can use the regular SS1/2/3 forms again. In the manga, before RoSaT the only form they used was Super Saiyan Blue. I mean, why did Vegeta use SSB instead of just SS against base Goku in chapter 5? Because SSB was the only form he could use at that point. By learning how to turn into a Super Saiyan God at will, the SSG power from their base form, aka the Saiyan beyond God state, disappeared.

And yes, even Vegeta can most likely use Super Saiyan God. Unlike in the anime, Toriyama implied that in his continuity Vegeta went through the same process as Goku to become Super Saiyan Blue.

I doubt he can use SSGod simply because he would've done so against Hit seeing as SSGod is above a tenth of his Blue power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I doubt he can use SSGod simply because he would've done so against Hit seeing as SSGod is above a tenth of his Blue power.

Vegeta's power had already dropped at that point because he had already turned on & off his SSB against Cabba, so his SSG would have been even weaker.

[ekrolo2]

I didn't get it either. I think it was just fluff created to pad out the time from when the Champa arc would begin while also making the fights that would happen against the Universe 6 fighters seem all the more tough. The anime at least had some kind of justification of Goku being able to use the Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue, but even then spending three years in the ROSAT? That's way too long. But then again, it may also explain why Goku and Vegeta have seeming seemingly been getting stronger at the drop of hat. Perhaps the gains that they made in the ROSAT didn't kick in until recent for... reasons. The manga, however, wrote into a corner by introducing the stamina bullshit. Because now, once the manga depicts the fight between SSJB Goku/Vegeta and Zamasu and Goku Black, it will literally last about 5-10 pages because they will max out SSJB almost immediately if they go all out.

SSJBlue in the manga doesn't max out that fast from a fight, it has diminishing strength returns if you flip it on and off. So, unless Goku & Vegeta do so, they can fight just fine in Blue.

I doubt he can use SSGod simply because he would've done so against Hit seeing as SSGod is above a tenth of his Blue power.

Vegeta's power had already dropped at that point because he had already turned on & off his SSB against Cabba, so his SSG would have been even weaker.

Does it work like that? I assumed his Blue multiplier dropped, not everything including his Base Form.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Does it work like that? I assumed his Blue multiplier dropped, not everything including his Base Form.

That's how I see it at least. Super Saiyan Blue doesn't drain stamina when you stay transformed (it's like regular Super Saiyan), but if you power down it takes a lot of stamina with it and leaves you with 1/10th of your maximum strength, and even less if you keep using it repeatedly. Whis & Goku say that it drains your stamina, not that the form itself gets weaker.

[Lord Beerus]

I didn't get it either. I think it was just fluff created to pad out the time from when the Champa arc would begin while also making the fights that would happen against the Universe 6 fighters seem all the more tough. The anime at least had some kind of justification of Goku being able to use the Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue, but even then spending three years in the ROSAT? That's way too long. But then again, it may also explain why Goku and Vegeta have seeming seemingly been getting stronger at the drop of hat. Perhaps the gains that they made in the ROSAT didn't kick in until recent for... reasons. The manga, however, wrote into a corner by introducing the stamina bullshit. Because now, once the manga depicts the fight between SSJB Goku/Vegeta and Zamasu and Goku Black, it will literally last about 5-10 pages because they will max out SSJB almost immediately if they go all out.

SSJBlue in the manga doesn't max out that fast from a fight, it has diminishing strength returns if you flip it on and off. So, unless Goku & Vegeta do so, they can fight just fine in Blue.

And that in itself makes no sense. How can maintaining the form drain less stamina that actually powering up into it? Are we supposed to believe that keeping the form active doesn't drain much ki? I don't buy that for a second. And it goes against everything we've been show in the past about Super Saiyan transformations in the pasts, in regards that maintaining a Super Saiyan form is far more difficult than powering up into one.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I didn't get it either. I think it was just fluff created to pad out the time from when the Champa arc would begin while also making the fights that would happen against the Universe 6 fighters seem all the more tough. The anime at least had some kind of justification of Goku being able to use the Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue, but even then spending three years in the ROSAT? That's way too long. But then again, it may also explain why Goku and Vegeta have seeming seemingly been getting stronger at the drop of hat. Perhaps the gains that they made in the ROSAT didn't kick in until recent for... reasons. The manga, however, wrote into a corner by introducing the stamina bullshit. Because now, once the manga depicts the fight between SSJB Goku/Vegeta and Zamasu and Goku Black, it will literally last about 5-10 pages because they will max out SSJB almost immediately if they go all out.

SSJBlue in the manga doesn't max out that fast from a fight, it has diminishing strength returns if you flip it on and off. So, unless Goku & Vegeta do so, they can fight just fine in Blue.

And that in itself makes no sense. How can maintaining the form drain less stamina that actually powering up into it? Are we supposed to believe that keeping the form active doesn't drain much ki? I don't buy that for a second. And it goes against everything we've been show in the past about Super Saiyan transformations in the pasts, in regards that maintaining a Super Saiyan form is far more difficult than powering up into one.

Why is it hard to believe that this form works differently than the others? It's like saying "Are we supposed to believe that this form has blue hair? None of the other forms had that!". Super Saiyan 3 is the only form with a time-limit that then completely drains not just your stamina, but any other thing you have (like Fusion time or Dead-in-the-Living-World time), are we supposed to call it bullshit just because?!

[ekrolo2]

And that in itself makes no sense. How can maintaining the form drain less stamina that actually powering up into it? Are we supposed to believe that keeping the form active doesn't drain much ki? I don't buy that for a second. And it goes against everything we've been show in the past about Super Saiyan transformations in the pasts, in regards that maintaining a Super Saiyan form is far more difficult than powering up into one.

Given the fact Goku and Vegeta's Base forms aren't much stronger than they were before, it stands to reason God and Blue are WAY bigger multipliers than they are in the anime to take them above SS3 Vegetto tier and into the G.O.D. territory. With this in mind, I'd equate Blue in the manga to being elevated to a level of power far beyond your usual limits that by forcing your body to into it in rapid succession drains you far too much. While you're in this elevated state, your body temporarily becomes used to it while the form lasts but forcing that kind of increase over and over takes too much of a toll.

Its actually fairly similar to how KKBlue works in the anime. While you've got them both turned on, your body is relatively fine with this increase in strength but Goku sure as hell wouldn't be able to flip them on and off casually if he tried.

[Noah]

Vegeta didn't contradict himself...

Yes, he did:

Remember Vegeta saying on the U6 vs U7 tournament arc that training inside RoSaT will only help them by a small margin since they're near their limits, and now he's the same one that said to Zamasu that Saiyans has no limits?

[Nejishiki]

I addressed why that was the case then and provided example in the same message. Characters regularly acknowledge limits and break them when challenged. I'm not sure if you're intentionally ignoring that with how my post was cut off, but my interpretation is grounded not only by the original story, but previous arcs of Dragon Ball Super, too. It's a separate matter if you're dissatisfied with the take, but it's not a contradiction by virtue of how the series is written overall.

[Noah]

It's a separate matter if you're dissatisfied with the take, but it's not a contradiction by virtue of how the series is written overall.

And how is that?

[Cipher]

It's a separate matter if you're dissatisfied with the take, but it's not a contradiction by virtue of how the series is written overall.

And how is that?

That was literally what the first half of Nejiahiki's post was about. You quoted the conclusion and then asked for the rationale.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Yeah I agree, the whole 3 years training thing was pretty pointless.