So did Zeno..

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Potanical Pardon
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:36 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Potanical Pardon » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:45 pm

Definitely multiverse.

Faisal Shourov
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:10 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:03 pm

Zeno erased the entire Future timeline, which contains 12 universe. This is more than a multiverse busting feat as spacetime is involved
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:13 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:Zeno erased the entire Future timeline, which contains 12 universe. This is more than a multiverse busting feat as spacetime is involved
No, because the timeline before he did that is still accessible, and it's even still accessible after he did that (it's just a void though).
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Faisal Shourov
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:10 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:22 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Zeno erased the entire Future timeline, which contains 12 universe. This is more than a multiverse busting feat as spacetime is involved
No, because the timeline before he did that is still accessible, and it's even still accessible after he did that (it's just a void though).
The timeline that Zeno erased? It's gone completely. If they try to go to stop Zeno it will create another timeline, not the one Zeno destroyed. You can't change the past in Dragon Ball. Also there is no time in void
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:58 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Zeno erased the entire Future timeline, which contains 12 universe. This is more than a multiverse busting feat as spacetime is involved
No, because the timeline before he did that is still accessible, and it's even still accessible after he did that (it's just a void though).
The timeline that Zeno erased? It's gone completely. If they try to go to stop Zeno it will create another timeline, not the one Zeno destroyed. You can't change the past in Dragon Ball. Also there is no time in void
But there is time there. We saw them arrive in the void in the time machine and time passed. Then Whis sent Trunks and Mai back to their own timeline with the intention of changing it by stopping Zamasu and creating a new timeline. So the timeline is still there, it's just that after a certain point in it, everything is destroyed.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Faisal Shourov
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:10 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:07 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
But there is time there. We saw them arrive in the void in the time machine and time passed. Then Whis sent Trunks and Mai back to their own timeline with the intention of changing it by stopping Zamasu and creating a new timeline. So the timeline is still there, it's just that after a certain point in it, everything is destroyed.
I know what Whis wanted, but that wouldn't work because if they went back in time trying to change anything it could create a time ring and new timeline.

There is no time in void. Talking in void is a trope in fiction (also seen in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure for example) to show communication and pass information which would be otherwise impossible. As with other unscientific fictional scenario, it's a common plot device. But there's no time in void
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 711
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Saiyan007 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:08 am

From what I gathered he destroyed every universe in universe 7

Which would be 12 universes as well as the other world's as well :crazy:

The fact that when Goku went back to the future Zeno is just there because he literally has no where to go

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6389
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Cipher » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:51 am

It isn't really clear from his wording.

Though even if he did only erase Universe 7, Zamasu and Black had apparently cleared out most sentient life in other universes as well. Or at least killed off their gods. That timeline was pretty thoroughly wrecked.
Faisal Shourov wrote:I know what Whis wanted, but that wouldn't work because if they went back in time trying to change anything it could create a time ring and new timeline.
That's exactly what's going to happen, though, and Whis says as much.

Beerus warns Whis that it's more trouble than it's worth, and will end up creating a new Time Ring. Whis counters that Beerus has already created a new Time Ring, so what does it matter?

The plan is to follow Trunks and Mai to a point in the "future" timeline before Zenou erases it, then introduce a series of changes that will avoid Black and Zamasu's rampage and lead to a splintered outcome. The original version of events, in which Zenou erases everything, will still be there on its own timeline. Trunks and Mai are knowingly creating a "different" world than the one they knew -- they'll be copies within it, and the original versions of everyone they knew really will remain dead -- but it's worth doing in the same way saving everyone in the main timeline was worth doing.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:19 am

Gowasu said that Zamasu was merging with the universe, so I assume Zeno destroyed the universe to kill him. He might have destroyed the other 11 universes but I'm not seeing any indication of that. Obviously the timeline itself was still intact as they could still travel to it.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Faisal Shourov
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:10 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Faisal Shourov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:40 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Gowasu said that Zamasu was merging with the universe, so I assume Zeno destroyed the universe to kill him. He might have destroyed the other 11 universes but I'm not seeing any indication of that. Obviously the timeline itself was still intact as they could still travel to it.
They didn't travel to any timeline, it was void. The timeline was erased by Zeno
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:47 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Gowasu said that Zamasu was merging with the universe, so I assume Zeno destroyed the universe to kill him. He might have destroyed the other 11 universes but I'm not seeing any indication of that. Obviously the timeline itself was still intact as they could still travel to it.
They didn't travel to any timeline, it was void. The timeline was erased by Zeno
They traveled to the void after he destroyed it, and then they traveled to the past of that same timeline before Zamasu killed the Kaioshin.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Will
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:25 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Will » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:58 am

The timeline still exist, but it look like she is "empty' and Zen'o destroy everything in it.

buutenks
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1888
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:42 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by buutenks » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:18 am

Will wrote:The timeline still exist, but it look like she is "empty' and Zen'o destroy everything in it.
That is indeed what happened.

The proof is Zeno not porting back to his realm.

Kepiaschkz
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:25 am

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Kepiaschkz » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:54 am

My understanding :

Zeno destroyed the multiverse which is different from destroying the timeline.

In the word "timeline" there is the concept of "time" in it.
If Zeno actually destroyed the timeline, it would have not only destroyed the multiverse in it, but also its "past version".

In other words, that timeline would be either filled with void throughout its lifespan ( so Future Trunks and Future Mai aren't going to find anything once they'll arrive there which is implied won't be the case ) or it would be innaccessible and its timering would have desappeared
( which isn't the case either as seen in the episode).

Since the multiverse still exists up to a certain point in time ( since it is going to be visited by Trunks and Mai ), as someone already pointed out, Zeno destroyed only the "future version" of the multiverse ( and the neutral space between it).
It may have destroyed the space-time as well according by the look of that strange void.
But that doesn't necessary mean there still aren't another version of time running within it.
Concept of "time" is linked with concept of "movement." Since Zeno, Goku and Trunks were moving there, time at least still existed until their desappearance.

All theses event gave us an interesting information about Zeno : he actually doesn't "transcend time" since he is splitted the same way the multiverse is, by time traveling. Otherwise, there would have been only one Zeno. The one who gave Goku the button would have appeared instead of another version of him.
And that mean that Zeno can't destroy a" timeline". The mere existence of Zeno is subordinated to his timeline :he can't destroy something he is into.

Now, the question is : is Toriyama going to create such an entity, who transcends time, contrary to Zeno ? I'm very doubtful about it since he would be likely above or at least equal to Zeno in power.

User avatar
SilverPlaqueVII
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:19 pm
Location: Toronto, ON (#The6)
Contact:

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by SilverPlaqueVII » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:22 am

Hold up...

I remember watching one DBZ episode that Grand Kaio of Universe 7 explaining to Goku and Paikuhan that once someone dies again, he/she gets erased from existence if that's the case from Zeno's situation to Zamasu which he is already dea by Mirai Trunks' sword.
Jelo Gutierrez Cantos (Dr. Fresh)
I'M GONNA BREAK YOU, LIKE A KIT-KAT BAR!! - TFS Goku. (have a Break, have a Kit Kat Freeza!)

-------------------------------------

Silver ShenronTransit Archive Projects
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Facebook | X (Twitter) | Tumblr | Youtube (1) (2) | Flickr | Instagram | Threads

User avatar
Angelus
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1971
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 am
Location: Dragonball Multiverse
Contact:

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Angelus » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:24 am

Also, would have Zeno also wiped out the souls of Other World in all those 12 Future Universes? Those souls would have vanished from existence then? :shock:

User avatar
Pluto
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:33 pm
Location: 4,032-Green-877 U6

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by Pluto » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:44 am

gofishus wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Zeno destroyed Future Trunks' entire timeline. There are basically now three timelines left, instead of four.
Nope. The Time ring is still there representing that timeline. Plus Goku and Trunks traveled there, which wouldnt be possible if it didnt exist
Yes, the time ring is another valid argument. He may've wiped a single universe though.

Zeno may end up having a boss, cause two of them dont make any sense, he shouldn't be a "time-being".
In the year 42 of our god calendar, Zarma acquired a special patent for his original design.

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by HeroR » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:13 am

Angelus wrote:Also, would have Zeno also wiped out the souls of Other World in all those 12 Future Universes? Those souls would have vanished from existence then? :shock:
Yes. All the people in Future Trunks timeline along with all its people were erased from existence. They're deader than dead.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

User avatar
gofishus
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:59 pm
Contact:

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by gofishus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:25 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Gowasu said that Zamasu was merging with the universe, so I assume Zeno destroyed the universe to kill him. He might have destroyed the other 11 universes but I'm not seeing any indication of that. Obviously the timeline itself was still intact as they could still travel to it.
They didn't travel to any timeline, it was void. The timeline was erased by Zeno
Nope. the TIME RING representing that timeline still exists

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: So did Zeno..

Post by HeroR » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:48 am

gofishus wrote:
Nope. the TIME RING representing that timeline still exists
More specifically, the timeline still exists, but there's nothing in it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

Post Reply