Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

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Dbzfan94
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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:41 am

TheMikado wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
TheMikado wrote:I think you're confusing Vegeta with Goku...
I think you're confusing Goku with Super!Goku
Well Z Goku wasn't exactly the perfect father and young Goku thought a wife was food..
That's young Goku.
Z Goku has been shown to be a good father and his issues as one have been overexaggerated in the fandom (lots of TFS fans think this way)

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:28 am

Beyond wrote:Krillin and Gohan are probably the only good parents. They both put their career and family ahead of fighting, something Vegeta and Goku probably won't do. Although Vegeta is almost certainly a better husband than Goku is now. I don't know if he is a better father. Even Piccolo has better parental instincts than them.
Goku doesn't need a career in the strictest sense. And how did Piccolo have better parental instincts?
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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by Gog » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:04 am

ABED wrote:
Beyond wrote:Krillin and Gohan are probably the only good parents. They both put their career and family ahead of fighting, something Vegeta and Goku probably won't do. Although Vegeta is almost certainly a better husband than Goku is now. I don't know if he is a better father. Even Piccolo has better parental instincts than them.
Goku doesn't need a career in the strictest sense. And how did Piccolo have better parental instincts?
Piccolo was the man who kidnapped a defenseless little toddler, left him alone for a few months, came back, and beat the stuffing out of the little kid.

Goku just cannot compare

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by Beyond » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:42 am

Gog wrote:
ABED wrote:
Beyond wrote:Krillin and Gohan are probably the only good parents. They both put their career and family ahead of fighting, something Vegeta and Goku probably won't do. Although Vegeta is almost certainly a better husband than Goku is now. I don't know if he is a better father. Even Piccolo has better parental instincts than them.
Goku doesn't need a career in the strictest sense. And how did Piccolo have better parental instincts?
Piccolo was the man who kidnapped a defenseless little toddler, left him alone for a few months, came back, and beat the stuffing out of the little kid.

Goku just cannot compare
Piccolo wan't treating Gohan like his son. I was thinking about his babysitting skill with pan. Although Goku had to have taken care of Gohan during those first four years in dbz, which I forgot when I made the initial post, so I'll say it goes like this
Krillin/Gohan>Goku>Piccolo>Vegeta(the fact that he almost let his kid die is keeping him here in my mind. Although he has changed a lot since then, it can't erase his past)

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by Rukawa11 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:06 am

Goku does indeed set a terrible example both as a husband and as a friend. The latter point is clear by the fact that he never keeps in touch with anybody in times of peace and he technically never hangs around them unless there's a common enemy to fight. As for Vegeta, he never cared for Bulma and Trunks at first (I believe he never married Bulma until after Cell's death), but during the Majin Boo arc, it becomes very clear that he loves them.

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:14 am

Rukawa11 wrote:Goku does indeed set a terrible example both as a husband and as a friend. The latter point is clear by the fact that he never keeps in touch with anybody in times of peace and he technically never hangs around them unless there's a common enemy to fight. As for Vegeta, he never cared for Bulma and Trunks at first (I believe he never married Bulma until after Cell's death), but during the Majin Boo arc, it becomes very clear that he loves them.
Not an unfair assessment, but not staying in touch doesn't make someone a bad friend.
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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by mabalia » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:26 pm

I don't understand how goku is the only person responsible to keep in touch with his friends. His friends didn't visit him as well during the time between DB and DBZ, and I don't see the fandom complaining that Bulma, kuririn and others are bad friends because of this.

I have the impression there's an exaggeration of the idea that Goku is an absent family man. Since he got married he lived 5 years of his life with his wife and son, he kept training not just because he likes it but because of Picolo too, who wasn't an ally at the time. And if he were this detached person he wouldn't live this long in Mountain Paozu and he'd start to search for a new adventure. My point is that he didn't stay because of a promise but because he liked his new family. I don't see Goku as this being incapable of love, he loved his grandpa Gohan imensily and gave his name to his first son. Maybe during this time he didn't train as much as he should because even Picolo reprimends him for it when they formed a team to fight Raditz. And what happened because he wasn't strong enough? He got killed and his son kidnapped. I think this was a lesson he took for the rest of his life.

Now let's analyze the time he was away and the time he was present:
- 1 year he was dead and training to fight saiyans; he's revived, fights Vegeta and Napa after they kill his friends and nearly dies again.
- Next he travels to Namek and nearly dies, spent more than 1 year in Yardrat to learn a useful technic (if he knew of this technic a year before he could prevent his friends's death) and to dominate the super saiyan form;
- He returns to Earth, discover the androids threat and for the next three years he spent training at home, plus almost one year training with Gohan in the time chamber; the week before Cell games with the exception of one day when he looked for a new Kami and the dragon balls, he spent with his family;
- After Cell games he dies and asks not to be revived because he thought he brings danger to the planet and 7 years passed until he comes back and is revived. He discovers he has a younger son and he's surprised - what that implies? He had sex and it wasn't for reproductive purpose. And that mess with a headcanon people enjoys a lot, that Goku is too inocent to be married.
- The 10 years the manga said was of peace, new material (movies and super) retcons this with Beerus, Freeza and Zamasu. To my understanding the two movies are more canon than super (you don't have to agree with me) and I consider events of super from the Champa tournament onwards.
- Goku's alive again and he pays an old promise to his wife. He's a farmer now.
- Goku trains with King Kai (somehow he learnt to sense ki of a dead god :think: ). He knows teletransport and there's no reason for him not to return home after he trains, but people likes to think he lives with King Kai.
- Goku asks Whis for training after he learnt Vegeta was already training for months. I don't know how much time he spent there but I don't think it was more than a year.
- He spent three years training with Vegeta in the time chamber but to their families it was only three days.
- With Zamasu I don't think they spent much time dealing with him, maybe a month? Correct me if I'm wrong.
- And now the current episodes Goku's with his family again.
- The end of the manga showed us Goku took Uub as his apprentice and went to his village (he counts with Mr. Satan's money to help the boy's village). Goku's happy to find a worthy and eager fighter in Uub but he must understand he's also responsable for the boy's life considering he's only alive because he asked. We don't know the time Goku stayed there. GT don't count, but Toriyama drew in Majin Z Goku and Uub in Mount Paozu next to Chichi, Goten and Pan, so after a time maybe Goku asked Uub to live in Mount Paozu during his training. I don't know, Uub's family is poor how could they manage to feed Goku day by day? It makes sense for Goku to invite Uub to be trained at Mount Paozu. And Uub could go to his home at weekends.

A thread to talk about Vegeta and his relationship with his family, and here I am talking about Goku... People usually compare the two of them but I'll always find Goku more interesting.

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:26 pm

keyz05 wrote:Is it me, Or is Vegeta just simply care only for himself and not his own wife and son? I mean, it looks to me like he's married to his own arrogance. Since I see him mostly hanging around Capsule Corp for himself and mostly going out all the time without his wife and son.

What do you think?
I don't think they're actually married. I honestly think they are in a common law relationship. That tends to fit his behaviour. He stays there because hes a friend of Goku and Trunks' father but thats pretty much it.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Does Vegeta not care for his marriage?

Post by mabalia » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:37 pm

mabalia wrote: - Goku trains with King Kai (somehow he learnt to sense ki of a dead god :think: ). He knows instant transmission and there's no reason for him not to return home after he trains, but people likes to think he lives with King Kai.

- The end of the manga showed us Goku took Uub as his apprentice and went to his village (he counts with Mr. Satan's money to help the boy's village). Goku's happy to find a worthy and eager fighter in Uub but he must understand he's also responsable for the boy's life considering he's only alive because he asked. We don't know the time Goku stayed there. GT don't count, but Toriyama drew in Neko Majin Z Goku and Uub in Mount Paozu next to Chichi, Goten and Pan, so after a time maybe Goku asked Uub to live in Mount Paozu during his training. I don't know, Uub's family is poor how could they manage to feed Goku day by day? It makes sense for Goku to invite Uub to be trained at Mount Paozu. And Uub could go to his home at weekends.

A thread to talk about Vegeta and his relationship with his family, and here I am talking about Goku... People usually compare the two of them but I'll always find Goku more interesting.
I made some corrections, but I'm sure there are more mistakes (my English is awful, sorry :) )
And to come to a conclusion regarding Goku, every time he's away he has a motive for it, strong reasons in fact. He's addicted to fight, likes training, but most of the time he had to train because he's the strongest on Earth and peaceful times already deceived him with a powerful oponent he had to defeat. So he has to be always ready (and the good thing is that he enjoys it).

His family understands him now. Maybe not in the beginning, but knowing he's an alien, a saiyan, it puts somethings on perspective. His family clearly loves him and the feeling is mutual. And besides he's more present than absent.

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