Time Travel Madness made simple

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:37 pm

You should let EX beat her Mochi.

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:57 pm

I don't want her to get banned, though. o.o

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:04 pm

No, no. Just let him whack her in the side of the head a few times with one of those plastic DBZ swords that plays Sean Schemmel as Goku saying lines from the dub. That's punishment enough for anybody!

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:16 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:No, no. Just let him whack her in the side of the head a few times with one of those plastic DBZ swords that plays Sean Schemmel as Goku saying lines from the dub. That's punishment enough for anybody!

Ok.

I can punish her in now... I'll go find a TrunksXGohan yaoi and save it in her picture folder!!!

No, that's too mean. I'll just tell her that EX is going to get her.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:30 pm

I could be mad at you for bringing Timelines back to us, but I think I'll just not use my brain in the least, and laugh at those who DO read it.

Hurray for the Zackage...

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:51 pm

I don't know about all the many timelines. I just know about the three seen, and the way things played out similar to "Days of Future Past." I did wonder though if since there was a mistake about the androids, if the Trunks who fought alongside the other Z-Fighters was different than the Trunks who killed Frieza and gave Goku the warning and message.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:11 pm

Good point.

SpiritBomb · Post by **SpiritBomb** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:19 am

Okee-Dokee...now we're going through complicated time travel stuff...uh..better say something useful..er..Ya know whats a good time traveling thing? ZELDA! But you can understand that, they dont go back and forth and when Link goes back in time, he doesent have a twin!

In stuff with time traveling, creators have a choice, to make it difficult and put the character seeing itself because he/she went back in time or make it simple as the he/she will always be one person no matter where they are or what time they traveled in!

DBZ used to appeal to me as a great Anime with a simple yet great plot but now, I realize that it could get quite complicated...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:51 am

James R. Cadwell wrote:I've always wondered how it was possible for Cell to arrive in the past at a point before Trunks did. IIRC, Cell just hijacked the time machine and went back to the time and place already set on the controls. Was there an alternate timeline where Trunks had decided to go back even further?

Maybe Cell changed it by accident? That's about the only thing I can think of. He said he had to revert to his larval state in order fit inside so maybe he bumped something?

PsyLiam wrote:The thing that bothered me is how did Cell end up in our timeline anyway? He should have ended up in the one that the Trunks he killed was returning to.

He did, only he went back farther than Trunks. My Time-line theroy explains it better than the one in the Daizensuu I think. See, you can't change the past, only the future. So, since Trunks had already fought and killed the Androids with no sign of Cell then Cell had to create a new time-line when he went back. Not creating a new time-line would have created a paradox.

Does that make any sense?

Chibi Woosh · Post by **Chibi Woosh** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:58 pm

Xyex wrote: He did, only he went back farther than Trunks. My Time-line theroy explains it better than the one in the Daizensuu I think. See, you can't change the past, only the future. So, since Trunks had already fought and killed the Androids with no sign of Cell then Cell had to create a new time-line when he went back. Not creating a new time-line would have created a paradox.

Does that make any sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me. Only, how would it create a paradox? Other than the paradox part, it makes sense.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:50 pm

Warning: Reading this post may induce brain seizures.

Alright, imagine this. Trunks goes back in time and helps defeat the Androids with no sign of Cell. He returns to his time and is then killed by Cell because he's to weak to defend himself against him. Cell then goes back in time and instead of creating a new time-line he enters the one the Trunks he killed came from.

Now, because of Cell's presence, Trunks trains more extensively and becomes uber-powerfull, stronger than Perfect Cell even. This uber-Trunks returns to the future where Cell attacks him but this time Cell is killed instead of Trunks.

Now we have a Paradox. How could Cell have possibly gone back to make Trunks stronger if he's dead in the future before going back? Therefore he dosen't go back, Trunks stays weak, he kills Trunks in the future and goes back, Trunks becomes uber-strong, kills Cell before he can go back, etc... It's a never ending loop.

The only way to prevent the paradox is for Cell to create a time-line seperate of that which the Trunks he killed entered effectively casuing all the time-lines that existed up to that point to 'replicate' themselves.

SpiritBomb wrote:Okee-Dokee...now we're going through complicated time travel stuff...uh..better say something useful..er..Ya know whats a good time traveling thing? ZELDA! But you can understand that, they dont go back and forth and when Link goes back in time, he doesent have a twin!

Understand it? You must be forgetting the end of OoT. Link defeats Gannon in the future, right? So then, isn't he still in the present causing chaos? Would Hyrule still be a living hell for the next seven years? Alright then, why dosen't Link do something to help the present? If he does, will that change the events he did in the future? Yeah, you get the point. Time travel in general gets real complicated real quick.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:13 pm

hum... let me try to make a simpler timeline theory...

Timeline 1- Trunks' timeline. Goku dies from a heart disease. Everyone is killed by the androids. Gohan is killed by the androids. Trunks goes back in time to save Goku- to timeline 2.

Timeline 2- Trunks arrives and kills Freeza and King Kold. He gives the heart medicine to Goku. He never comes back. Trunk's goes back to his timeline.

Timeline 1- Trunks comes back. Some time later, he prepares to go back to help the Z warriors fight against the androids.

Timeline 3- Trunks comes to help the Z-warriors. Later, he goes back to his timeline.

Timeline 1- Trunks comes back, kill the androids and prepares to go back to the past. Cell kills him, and uses his time machine to go to the past.

Timeline 4- Cell goes to the past, creating another timeline, which also includes time traveller Trunks. Due to the new course of events trigerred by Cell, Trunk's changed from the original. When he goes back to "his" future, he isn't going back to timeline 1. He's going to another timeline created by the changes done in him by Cell's timetravels. So, we got...

Timeline 5- Trunks comes back to his future. Kills the androids and Cell.

Timeline 6- Goku kills Freeza in Namek, triggering an universal conflict which eventually reaches Earth, killing virtually all of its 5 billion inhabitants. Due to a change in Earth's magnetic field, the dragon radar becomes useless. Thirty years later, Dragon Ball X begins.

(shameless advertising).
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Time traveller Trunks from Timeline 4 doesn't create a new timeline during his first travel back to the future because Cell's presence in the past didn't change him in any way.

Not really as simple as I wanted...

So? What do you think?

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Understand it? You must be forgetting the end of OoT. Link defeats Gannon in the future, right? So then, isn't he still in the present causing chaos? Would Hyrule still be a living hell for the next seven years? Alright then, why dosen't Link do something to help the present? If he does, will that change the events he did in the future? Yeah, you get the point. Time travel in general gets real complicated real quick.

Well... It seems that the new Four Swords explains what happens to Ganon in the child's timeline.

And have you ever heard about the multiple timeline theory? Basically, it means that time travel in Zelda OOT has the same basics that time travel in DBZ has. Only difference is that you always travel between an original and the new timeline, you do not keep creating timelines with each travel.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:35 pm

My take on why the machine was set 3 years in advance:

Timeline 1: Everybody dies so Trunks goes back in time.

Timeline 2: Cell from unknown fifth timeline arrives 3 years early. TL1 Trunks gives Goku medicine. He returns three years later and takes the remote blueprints back to his timeline with the intention of returning eventually.

Timeline 1: FACT: Trunks returns with remote plans. Bulma makes device. Trunks uses it. HYPOTHESIS: Trunks wants to return to TL2 to destroy the androids of TL1 for Goku+co before anything happens-chooses random date which is 3 years early. FACT: Cell matures to imperfect stage and kills him+uses timemachine to enter anime/manga timeline.

Timeline 2: Absence of TL1 Trunks results in this unknown Cell achieving Perfect Form and holding a Cell Games whose results are unknown.

Timeline 3: Everybody dies so Trunks goes back in time. (History of Trunks TL)

Timeline 4: anime/manga TL: Cell from TL1 arrives 3 years early. Trunks from TL3 gives Goku medicine. Three years later Androids+Cell games happen. After Gohan kills TL1 Cell, TL3 Trunks returns to his time.

Timeline 3: Trunks returns from TL4 and destroys his androids. 3 years later he destroys Imperfect Cell from this era.

Timeline 5: Details COMPLETELY unknown (cause of infinite timeline possibility) other than the fact that Cell goes to TL2.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:46 pm

Note that in the previous thread I chose the TLs randomly so you could all follow the chain of events. Daizenshuu states manga's TL as TL1, Mirai Trunks' TL as TL2, Cell's TL as TL3 and the past that TL3 Trunks went into as TL4. TL5 isn't mentioned but is what I call the future that TL4's Cell came from.

A new hypothesis I have as to why TL4's (according to Daizenshuu, not my previous post) Cell Games' results are unknown is because TL4 no longer had a Mirai Trunks. I know the Daizenshuu says that too, but think about it: No USSJ2 Trunks means Cell kills Vegeta. No Vegeta at Cell Games means Cell may have won the Kamehameha duel w/Gohan since Vegeta wasn't there to distract him.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:04 pm

Neon Z wrote:And have you ever heard about the multiple timeline theory? Basically, it means that time travel in Zelda OOT has the same basics that time travel in DBZ has. Only difference is that you always travel between an original and the new timeline, you do not keep creating timelines with each travel.

But Link changes things in the past timeline that affect the future timeline, such as when he floods the well, lays those seeds that grow into plants, and some stuff at the Spirit Temple that I can't remember. If the new timeline was created and became seperate, then the things he was doing in the past would have no affect on the future one.

It should also be noted that Link's adventures became well known, perhaps implying that the future timeline stuff DID happen, and everyone started telling stories about Link. Except that whenever the "Hero Of Time" is heard about or seen in Wind Waker, he is a boy, not a young adult. Which means that maybe young Link is the famous one. Except that he didn't really do anthing that great in OoT. He saved the Deku tree, but that hardly became widespread news. And in any case, young Link never stopped Ganon, so why would he be famous for doing just that? He would have had to have told everyone about his adventures when he returned, and everyone would have had to have believed him, which didn't seem too likely.

"What, you hav ecome back from 10 years in the future where Hyrule was a hellish mess and Ganodorf ruled the land until you defeated him? Suuuure"

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:00 am

Moral of the story? If anyone makes a manga, don't use time travelling. EVER.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:04 am

Or just avoid time travelling using Cell and/or Galvatron. All they'll end up doing is killing large numbers of people, anyway.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:08 am

Here's an idea. Why not have Cell and Galvatron time travel at the same moment. That way they'll probably meet up, fight , and destroy one another. Problem solved.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:14 am

Or they'll team up, and go on a big rampage killing everyone. That wouldn't be good.

Question: If they did meet up, would Megatron have to team up with first form Cell? Or #17 and #18?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:16 am

Dear Lord, what have we started!

Kanzenshuu

Time Travel Madness made simple

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