Representations of Goku's character (GT & Super)

[Cipher]

Yeah, but he doesn't renounce his heritage. He acknowledges their shortcomings whilst still identifying as one. "Yeah, I know we fucked up, but that era is over. This is about you now."

What he says to Baby is completely different. Baby accuses him of being cowardly and barbaric, because he's a Saiyan, and what does Goku do? He proves him right by refusing to identify as a Saiyan. He's being cowardly by refusing to take responsibility for what the Saiyans did... which is, well, the exact opposite of what Namek arc Goku did.

I guess he is engaging in a bit of political deflection.

[ABED]

I'd argue anyway that reverting to a child's physiological body actually would be accompanied by some loss of maturity

Sure, if it was real life and that were possible, but it's not exactly scientific.

I honestly don't mind that Goku gave two different responses to a similar circumstance. I can see that happening in real life.

[ekrolo2]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

[TheMikado]

He's responding to Baby, who's using an outdated grudge to enslave an innocent planet where Goku happens to have made his home.

So... like this?

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Make no mistake, the two situations are identical. And yet, he gives two different responses in both series.

Where in this scene does Goku say he's a Saiyan?

[TheMikado]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

Yes it's pretty clear that they are identifying as earthlings culturally not biologically which wouldn't be inaccurate at all for Goku.

[Cipher]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

He does, resonding to Dr. Mu in his final stand against Super 17. I like that.

[ABED]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

Yes it's pretty clear that they are identifying as earthlings culturally not biologically which wouldn't be inaccurate at all for Goku.

Goku tells Bahta that he is a Saiyan who was raised on Earth.

[ekrolo2]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

He does, resonding to Dr. Mu in his final stand against Super 17. I like that.

As do I, it's a really great moment that shows how far he's come as a person. GT does a lot of moments like that for Vegeta that sadly fly way under the radar.

[TheMikado]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

Yes it's pretty clear that they are identifying as earthlings culturally not biologically which wouldn't be inaccurate at all for Goku.

Goku tells Bahta that he is a Saiyan who was raised on Earth.

Doesn't that mean culturally though? Like him being raised in earth implies raised as an earthling rather than a saiyan.

[TheMikado]

Doesn't Vegeta at one point call himself "An Earthling with the pride of a Saiyan" or something to that effect?

He does, resonding to Dr. Mu in his final stand against Super 17. I like that.

As do I, it's a really great moment that shows how far he's come as a person. GT does a lot of moments like that for Vegeta that sadly fly way under the radar.

My favorite moments with Vegeta are him with Bra, not following Goku into outer space, getting ticked off at being compared to Goku, and working with him and suggesting fusion to Goku.

[ABED]

Yes it's pretty clear that they are identifying as earthlings culturally not biologically which wouldn't be inaccurate at all for Goku.

Goku tells Bahta that he is a Saiyan who was raised on Earth.

Doesn't that mean culturally though? Like him being raised in earth implies raised as an earthling rather than a saiyan.

Yeah, I thought that was clear. My bad. He's biologically a Saiyan, but Earthling by choice and upbringing.

[Doctor.]

He's responding to Baby, who's using an outdated grudge to enslave an innocent planet where Goku happens to have made his home.

So... like this?

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Make no mistake, the two situations are identical. And yet, he gives two different responses in both series.

Where in this scene does Goku say he's a Saiyan?

An alternate translation has him say "we". So does Simmons (I believe this is Simmons' translation, at least). Feel free to ask Herms or any other credited translator if you doubt it, though, but MofoGoku was a trusted translator in the community until he quit for some reason.

Even so, regardless of what he says in that scene, it's obvious from the rest of the arc, that he identifies as both an Earthling and a Saiyan, with pride I may add. Refusing to identify as a Saiyan would be hypocritical after this speech.

[TheMikado]

Where did he say he was proud to be a saiyan?

[Doctor.]

Where did he say he was proud to be a saiyan?

"I want you to give some of that pride to me", talking about Vegeta, which he follows with "I was raised on Earth but I'm a Saiyan too!"

The implication here is clear.

[TheMikado]

Where did he say he was proud to be a saiyan?

"I want you to give some of that pride to me", talking about Vegeta, which he follows with "I was raised on Earth but I'm a Saiyan too!"

The implication here is clear.

Ok.. do you have a clip of where he denies he's a saiyan? Just so you know here's a list where Goku acknowledges multiple times where he's a saiyan to Baby.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon ... 2_(Quotes)

Goku's Ascension

Baby: (in Vegeta's body) Heh. Was the gorilla too much power for you to control?
Goku: Yeah. This is just another costume change for the weakling Saiyan.

[Doctor.]

Where did he say he was proud to be a saiyan?

"I want you to give some of that pride to me", talking about Vegeta, which he follows with "I was raised on Earth but I'm a Saiyan too!"

The implication here is clear.

Ok.. do you have a clip of where he denies he's a saiyan?

You mean of the GT one? Episode 28 I believe.

[Cipher]

Ok.. do you have a clip of where he denies he's a saiyan? Just so you know here's a list where Goku acknowledges multiple times where he's a saiyan to Baby.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon ... 2_(Quotes)

Goku's Ascension

Baby: (in Vegeta's body) Heh. Was the gorilla too much power for you to control?
Goku: Yeah. This is just another costume change for the weakling Saiyan.

I'm not necessarily agreeing that this is a major character issue, but let's be careful not to bring in dub scripts, which I'm almost certain this is.

[TheUltimateNinja]

"I want you to give some of that pride to me", talking about Vegeta, which he follows with "I was raised on Earth but I'm a Saiyan too!"

The implication here is clear.

Ok.. do you have a clip of where he denies he's a saiyan?

You mean of the GT one? Episode 28 I believe.

Ironically GT has Vegeta calling himself an Earthling who carries the pride of a Saiyan.

[Doctor.]

Just so you know here's a list where Goku acknowledges multiple times where he's a saiyan to Baby.

If those are in the original japanese, then it just makes it even weirder that they included such a line like the one I posted in the first place.

Ok.. do you have a clip of where he denies he's a saiyan?

You mean of the GT one? Episode 28 I believe.

Ironically GT has Vegeta calling himself an Earthling who carries the pride of a Saiyan.

I feel this goes too far with his character. It's pushing it a lot.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I have to give it to GT Goku being the better representation of Goku's character that I like. (Though I think Battle of Gods & Freeza Arc Goku are the Best Goku). GT Goku to me was where they did find a balance between wanting to push for more gags through the relevance that his kid body gave them, to where his more mature and serious nature would come out whenever he went SS or higher. GT Goku still felt like a natural progression from the maturity he should have as a grandfather, where he didn't make impulsive decisions and kept his cockiness strictly in battle. The dub emphasized this aspect of Goku in GT a lot more so but that is what I think a wiser Goku should be. What I liked about Goku in GT is that he emphasized his maturity in his extreme protectiveness of Pan which showed the paternal maturity Goku lacked with Gohan and neglected in Goten. In Super Goku is literally dumbfounded by why Vegeta would care so much about his pregnant wife, knowing that he was dead when Goten was born and shrugs that off, even though he apologized to Gohan in Z for not being there for him, yet doesn't care at all in Super.

Super's Goku is the exact opposite, and for the first time it gave me a comparable difference to why I hate Goku's character in that series. Where he may be ignorant and naive, but its gotten to the point where its become a plot device itself and represses Goku from character development on a serialized scale, as opposed to it just being the 2 dimensional cause and effect that Goku's character was already past after the Cell Games. Then theres the issue I have with him laughing off everything that happens because him just smiling it off overturns the mood of the consequences? Super's Goku was just unbearable for me and this side of Goku started with ROF which was where I noticed this change in Goku right after he was shot with the laser.

GT Goku is ROF Goku pre-laser & Super Goku is just ROF Goku post-laser.

tl;dr - GT Goku > Super Goku.