Where is Zarama?

mute_proxy · Post by **mute_proxy** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:00 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:Yeah, in fact Zeno is not even the creator God nor he was ever implied to be. He's the ruler of the multiverse but nothing more. We haven't see the creator god yet (or we may never see), but undoubtedly that's the strongest being in Dragon Ball. And I don't mean joke characters like Toribot

Nor is he implied not to be, nor there to be a more powerful god.

UpFromTheSkies · Post by **UpFromTheSkies** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:45 am

The Super Dragon Balls aren't from a single universe, and so Zalama most likely isn't from any single universe either but is from the same realm that the angels, Zeno and his attendants are from. We'll probably end up finding out that the Dragon Ball world is much bigger than the 12 universes, and there is probably an entire race of Zeno

Faisal Shourov · Post by **Faisal Shourov** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:20 am

mute_proxy wrote: Nor is he implied not to be, nor there to be a more powerful god.

The very fact that Zeno didn't create Dragon Ball multiverse proves he's not omnipotent. There's a difference between 'god' and God. Thor is a god, but TOAA is the God. God is not limited by anything, creating new timelines doesn't create a new God. God is unaffected by causality. Zeno is something like Thor.

Polyphase Avatron · Post by **Polyphase Avatron** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:25 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
mute_proxy wrote: Nor is he implied not to be, nor there to be a more powerful god.
The very fact that Zeno didn't create Dragon Ball multiverse proves he's not omnipotent. There's a difference between 'god' and God. Thor is a god, but TOAA is the God. God is not limited by anything, creating new timelines doesn't create a new God. God is unaffected by causality. Zeno is something like Thor.

Not all gods in fiction are "unaffected by causality", even supreme gods.

There are some stories where there's no time travel or parallel worlds at all, so causality isn't even an issue, but the top gods in those stories can still be unopposed and supreme.

mute_proxy · Post by **mute_proxy** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:34 am

Faisal Shourov wrote: The very fact that Zeno didn't create Dragon Ball multiverse proves he's not omnipotent. There's a difference between 'god' and God. Thor is a god, but TOAA is the God. God is not limited by anything, creating new timelines doesn't create a new God. God is unaffected by causality. Zeno is something like Thor.

As I said before, it's not implied that he's not the God. DB has it's own in-universe rules, hierarchies and what not and you're not the one to set them with your out of universe concepts.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:09 am

Zarama is actually the Namekian Book of Legends. It's a sentient book with googly eyes and little boots.

Pluto · Post by **Pluto** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:49 am

Zarama is busy patenting stuff...does not give a shit about anything, sounds like a familiar god right?

Kanassa · Post by **Kanassa** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:59 am

He's sleeping off a hangover.

namekiansaiyan · Post by **namekiansaiyan** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:24 am

Saonel and Pirina might know Zarama and tell us more how they managed to make Dragon Balls from the Super Dragon Balls.

PMD · Post by **PMD** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:45 am

Inside the Super Dragon Balls? Like, really inside (read it with Zoolander's voice)

BlueBasilisk · Post by **BlueBasilisk** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:53 pm

Off doing something silly or inane, so when he suddenly pops up, the characters in universe all face fault comedically and the viewer facepalms while thinking "of course he was." But with Whis suggesting in this last episode that the Super Dragon Balls could kill gods, I'd wager that Zarama is meant to be the creative element opposite Zeno's destructive element and they're just waiting for the right opportunity to bring him in. Or he's stuck in line at the patent office.

PerhapsTheOtherOne · Post by **PerhapsTheOtherOne** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:15 pm

Honestly, I still like the idea that Zarama is actually the dragon from the Super Dragon Balls, and that he just likes to hang out in his own cozy dimension and grant wishes as a sort of hobby.

GodKaio-Ken · Post by **GodKaio-Ken** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:52 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
saunasolmu wrote:S/he perhaps resides in another reality/multiverse, where the dragons come from when summoned.

BTW, didn't Whis state that Zeno is absolutely the strongest being in "this" world? Maybe that could imply that there could be a stronger being in another "world"...
Yeah, in fact Zeno is not even the creator God nor he was ever implied to be. He's the ruler of the multiverse but nothing more. We haven't see the creator god yet (or we may never see), but undoubtedly that's the strongest being in Dragon Ball. And I don't mean joke characters like Toribot

He's never implied not to be either. I'm not saying he is, he probably isnt, but your example offers no proof. Not implying means nothing if you don't imply the opposite either.

BlueBasilisk · Post by **BlueBasilisk** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:30 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
saunasolmu wrote:S/he perhaps resides in another reality/multiverse, where the dragons come from when summoned.

BTW, didn't Whis state that Zeno is absolutely the strongest being in "this" world? Maybe that could imply that there could be a stronger being in another "world"...
Yeah, in fact Zeno is not even the creator God nor he was ever implied to be. He's the ruler of the multiverse but nothing more. We haven't see the creator god yet (or we may never see), but undoubtedly that's the strongest being in Dragon Ball. And I don't mean joke characters like Toribot
He's never implied not to be either. I'm not saying he is, he probably isnt, but your example offers no proof. Not implying means nothing if you don't imply the opposite either.

Well, there's the fact that he's never shown creating anything at all. The Grand Priest always does it for him. The GodPads, the apps, the Tournament stage, and so on. If Zeno had the ability to create Universes then surely those would be trifles in comparison? Nobody has mentioned him creating anything either. All references to his actions are in the context of ruling and destroying.

GodKaio-Ken · Post by **GodKaio-Ken** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:44 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
Yeah, in fact Zeno is not even the creator God nor he was ever implied to be. He's the ruler of the multiverse but nothing more. We haven't see the creator god yet (or we may never see), but undoubtedly that's the strongest being in Dragon Ball. And I don't mean joke characters like Toribot
He's never implied not to be either. I'm not saying he is, he probably isnt, but your example offers no proof. Not implying means nothing if you don't imply the opposite either.
Well, there's the fact that he's never shown creating anything at all. The Grand Priest always does it for him. The GodPads, the apps, the Tournament stage, and so on. If Zeno had the ability to create Universes then surely those would be trifles in comparison? Nobody has mentioned him creating anything either. All references to his actions are in the context of ruling and destroying.

Like I said I don't think he is the creator myself, but you can't come to a definitive conclusion based on what has been shown. Rulers often have their subordinates do things they are fully capable of themselves. Until someone actually mentions another creator we can't assume their is one, we can only say it appears there may be one.

I just get peeved when people make definitive statements on incomplete facts, because even if said person is right it was just a 50/50 guess.

If Zarama was the creator in question you'd think a God like Beerus or Angel like Whis would have heard of him. Creating the Super Dragon Balls would be major lore in universe from a creation God.

At the very least youd think Kaioshin, Gods who create, would know of this God.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:40 am

BlueBasilisk wrote: Well, there's the fact that he's never shown creating anything at all. The Grand Priest always does it for him. The GodPads, the apps, the Tournament stage, and so on. If Zeno had the ability to create Universes then surely those would be trifles in comparison?

2:37

MKJ · Post by **MKJ** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:07 am

To me it "appears" as if zeno is nothing more than an omni god of destruction supervised by an omni Angel. Of course I am basing that on how the hierarchy is set up with each universe. I think it would be interesting to find out that there is an omni kai that created everything. I wonder how far they will delve into the lore of the hierarchy of the gods?

BlueBasilisk · Post by **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:26 am

GodKaio-Ken wrote: Like I said I don't think he is the creator myself, but you can't come to a definitive conclusion based on what has been shown. Rulers often have their subordinates do things they are fully capable of themselves. Until someone actually mentions another creator we can't assume their is one, we can only say it appears there may be one.

I just get peeved when people make definitive statements on incomplete facts, because even if said person is right it was just a 50/50 guess.

If Zarama was the creator in question you'd think a God like Beerus or Angel like Whis would have heard of him. Creating the Super Dragon Balls would be major lore in universe from a creation God.

At the very least youd think Kaioshin, Gods who create, would know of this God.

It's the same with Zeno, though. If he is the creator of everything the Gods would surely know it, so why not just come right out and say it? Considering Zeno's position and prestige it's not like such a revelation would be a major twist.

Personally I'm not sure anyone created the universes. They might have just existed already and the gods came later. Didn't Toriyama say in one of his interviews that Buu just sort of existed from the beginning of time? There's Tori-bot of course but the question of whether Tori-bot actually exists in universe is a whole other topic!

@dbgtFO: I can't watch videos on this device but I'll check that out when I can.

Edit for proper response:

dbgtFO wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote: Well, there's the fact that he's never shown creating anything at all. The Grand Priest always does it for him. The GodPads, the apps, the Tournament stage, and so on. If Zeno had the ability to create Universes then surely those would be trifles in comparison?
2:37

I see! I remember Zeno handing him the button but I didn't remember the blue light part. Gladly admit I was wrong on that part.

Xeztin · Post by **Xeztin** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:19 pm

I Think there are other multiverses. Think of the one Zen-Oh rules as multiverse 1 containing universes 1-12 and then another multiverse with a different ruler containing more. If Kaioshin are anything to go by there could be one above Zen-Oh like Zen-Ohshin or something. He doesn’t have to be strong but could be one that moniters Zen-Oh. Zen-Oh’s place lies outside the 12 universes probably above them. I’m sure something even greater is above Zen-Oh. Wait for the plot to need it.

BlueBasilisk · Post by **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Xeztin wrote:I Think there are other multiverses. Think of the one Zen-Oh rules as multiverse 1 containing universes 1-12 and then another multiverse with a different ruler containing more. If Kaioshin are anything to go by there could be one above Zen-Oh like Zen-Ohshin or something. He doesn’t have to be strong but could be one that moniters Zen-Oh. Zen-Oh’s place lies outside the 12 universes probably above them. I’m sure something even greater is above Zen-Oh. Wait for the plot to need it.

That's certainly a possibility too. We're still not sure where exactly Zeno's palace resides and the DB cosmology is always expanding with higher realms and gods.

Back to the subject of Zarama, there's also the question of why they made the Super Dragon Balls to begin with. Maybe they're there to fix any...unfortunate mishaps that might occur with someone like Zeno around? They're so big that a mortal couldn't really make use of them alone so they might be intended as tools for the gods. I feel like Zarama might pop into the story eventually to explain like Kami and Guru eventually did.

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