Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
I like it, it's definitely high on my list of transformations. The design is not too much yet not too simple so that's definitely a plus. The concept of it is great and I appreciate how it hark back to the roots of saiyans. The only thing ever holding it back for me was the colour scheme for it, there's just something very...off about them.
Personally, I hate it. Out of all of Toriyama's designs, this is my least favorite by an extremely long-shot. I agree that the concept is interesting, but, to me, the visual design is just ugly and was probably a better idea than a fully-envisioned product. "Covered in red fur" doesn't necessarily bring to mind "badass" for me. And the bloodshot eyeliner? Worse than Super Saiyan 3's eyebrows in my opinion.
"Tell me, is it slavery if you get what you want?"
Avenant wrote:Personally, I hate it. Out of all of Toriyama's designs, this is my least favorite by an extremely long-shot. I agree that the concept is interesting, but, to me, the visual design is just ugly and was probably a better idea than a fully-envisioned product. "Covered in red fur" doesn't necessarily bring to mind "badass" for me. And the bloodshot eyeliner? Worse than Super Saiyan 3's eyebrows in my opinion.
Toriyama didn’t design it, but this is actually my favorite just on virtue of what it is. And I love the look. It looks great in action. If can see if you never saw it in motion and fighting it does look out of place but watching SSJ4 in action makes it look like the natural raw form of Saiyan. If your only experience is from still images I would encourage you to watch an actual fight.
Avenant wrote:Personally, I hate it. Out of all of Toriyama's designs, this is my least favorite by an extremely long-shot. I agree that the concept is interesting, but, to me, the visual design is just ugly and was probably a better idea than a fully-envisioned product. "Covered in red fur" doesn't necessarily bring to mind "badass" for me. And the bloodshot eyeliner? Worse than Super Saiyan 3's eyebrows in my opinion.
Toriyama didn’t design it, but this is actually my favorite just on virtue of what it is. And I love the look. It looks great in action. If can see if you never saw it in motion and fighting it does look out of place but watching SSJ4 in action makes it look like the natural raw form of Saiyan. If your only experience is from still images I would encourage you to watch an actual fight.
My apologies. After reading your response I did the research and quickly learned that the yellow-paper drawing that Toriyama did was just a doodle he did of the already-designed character. My bad! Alas, this only strengthens my opinion. But I have seen GT in it's entirety and unfortunately none of it convinced me that SSJ4 is a quality design. But to each their own.
"Tell me, is it slavery if you get what you want?"
I spoke about the form in my re-watch of GT and my opinion remains the same:
SSJ4 is the best thing GT produces and one the highlights of the entire franchise. Speaking from an aesthetic standpoint, at the very least, it's an amazing form. The homage to the long forgotten Oozaru form, while also tying it into the lore of the Original Super Saiyan and managing to combine the characteristic of controlling your rage, much like the first Super Saiyan form... fantastic.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
First of all, I love that it's an actual tnansformation. I love that the hair changes, the eyes change, and they actually go back to their Saiyan roots and have fur. I like that. I don't care about the fur color. I don't understand the criticism on Goku's fur color -- yeah, it's "pink." Well, its more magenta, but if we're not going to analyze it as if it were a Crayola box, then yeah, pink, sure. But so what's wrong with that? Saying that the fur is a stupid color is no less subjective than saying that Goku's gi is a crappy color or that Bulma's hair is a crappy color. It is what it is. I don't mind it. The eye color -- same thing. I like it.
There are two things that I can't stand about Super Saiyan 4 -- just two things. Number one: the clothing. I mean... why? I understand, they couldn't have a naked adult Goku running around after turning into a giant monkey, but was there no other out than to give him clothes for no reason? Couldn't they have a character put clothes on him? Hell, even if they showed old Kaioshin waving his hand to cover Goku up from the Kaioshin Realm, I'd still take that. And then every time he turned into a Super Saiyan 4 afterward, just keep him in the clothes that he already had on. It's not that difficult. He's not the first character to have this magical ability, but he never had it before and shouldn't have it now.
The next thing that I don't get is the red outline around the eyes. Don't get it. That just looks like they ran out of things to throw on him.
Now, Super Saiyan 4 has looked incredible and has looked weak -- that depends on the animation, but the concept of Super Saiyan 4 is great. It's just that in GT, I don't think Goku's SS4 hair is ever consistent. I feel like every time I saw Goku in that form, his hair looked different. I know what it should look like due to promotional pictures and whatnot, but GT had his hair all over the place.
I've always liked it and agree it's probably the best thing about GT. I loved how cocky Goku acted in that form and how it served as a contrast to his goofier Kid form. One of my favourite lines from the videogames is SS4 Goku's "Right now there's nothing I can't do". And there where some great moments like him finishing off the Ice Dragon with the Dragon Fist, and most of the battle with Syn Shenron. We didn't get to see Vegeta use it as much, but it was nice seeing him being relevant again.
A topic like "Do you like ______?" will always be subjective regardless of what you throw into it. Objectively, you can discuss how efficient Super Saiyan 4 is, but that will never mean whether someone likes it or not.
I love the design, and I like how every character who has it has different colors. Vegeta has red fur and Gogeta has brown fur. I also like Goku's magenta fur, and that probably adds to why I like Super Saiyan God, because magenta's a nice color.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai "90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash
Probably the best transformation in Dragonball. At least up there with the original Super saiyan form. It's not a silly recolor and Goku's personality suddenly becomes very serious when he transforms. A great way to bring back the Oozaru form too
Timetraveller wrote:Probably the best transformation in Dragonball. At least up there with the original Super saiyan form. It's not a silly recolor and Goku's personality suddenly becomes very serious when he transforms. A great way to bring back the Oozaru form too
To be fair, Goku in GT was more mature (though still fun loving), especially compared to his Super counterpart.
I'm going through GT again after like a zillion years and I forgot how much I liked Super Saiyan 4.
The Dragonboxes are like a middle aged woman who still looks good through simply taking good care of her skin and body with maybe a tiny bit of makeup while the Orange Bricks are like a middle aged woman who get's 50 tons of botox, makeup and plastic surgery in order to look younger and as a result looks even worse. ~ ringworm128 Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years! #1 Paikuhan fan!