Well Kunzait was wrong, because the dub flat out says Junior is DKP reincarinated. As for Ki its never said in the show strangely but the games say it all the time.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I thought back to a chat I had with Kunzait on an older Kanzenshuu thread. He said the whole Piccolo Reincarnation thing was removed by Funimation to get rid of *Eastern Asian themes and traditions* and I said that they've just mistranslated that by accident. But Ki? Ki has never been acknowleged by Funimation. Never. In the 20 plus years they've had the franchise they have used the term in their dubs.
Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Unfortunately it just falls into that pit of liberties taken with the material that are leftover from the early days of DB's localization. That's why Kaio is "King Kai" (and why he sounds like a muppet instead of a somewhat wise old man), the Kaioshin are "Kais," Tenshinhan is "Tien," Lunch is "Launch," Makankosappo is "Special Beam Canon," Kikoho is "Tri-Beam" (even though it's clearly not a triangle), etc etc.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Is there really any reason to? Toriyama’s concept of ki has little to no differences in nature to how energy is in reality (aside from shooting from their hands and the fictional level of control they have over it, of course).
It’s not even like it still has that “mystical,” mysterious nature it once had. It’s a biological concept that’s well understood by all advanced civilizations we’ve seen in the series. They’re even able to create blaster guns that imitate the energy.
It’s not even like it still has that “mystical,” mysterious nature it once had. It’s a biological concept that’s well understood by all advanced civilizations we’ve seen in the series. They’re even able to create blaster guns that imitate the energy.
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Dragon Ball's localization is a bit of a relic at this point. If it were new and they left out the word Ki or changed it I think people would be up in arms but because it's been so long it's just beyond repair. Luckily the manga and the subtitles have always been pretty faithful in that regard.Android 21 wrote:Is there really any reason to? Toriyama’s concept of ki has little to no differences in nature to how energy is in reality (aside from shooting from their hands and the fictional level of control they have over it, of course).
It’s not even like it still has that “mystical,” mysterious nature it once had. It’s a biological concept that’s well understood by all advanced civilizations we’ve seen in the series. They’re even able to create blaster guns that imitate the energy.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
I'm pretty sure it's cuz they record from scripts given from game companies which is why they use "God of Destruction" too in games instead of "Destroyer" in which they use in the series.Dbzfan94 wrote:Well Kunzait was wrong, because the dub flat out says Junior is DKP reincarinated. As for Ki its never said in the show strangely but the games say it all the time.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I thought back to a chat I had with Kunzait on an older Kanzenshuu thread. He said the whole Piccolo Reincarnation thing was removed by Funimation to get rid of *Eastern Asian themes and traditions* and I said that they've just mistranslated that by accident. But Ki? Ki has never been acknowleged by Funimation. Never. In the 20 plus years they've had the franchise they have used the term in their dubs.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
And no, I'm not making that up.
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Ugh. Seeing “Juuhachigo” in a English fic is the freaking worstJackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Yep. Even seeing people on here write those kinds of things out, I can't help but roll my eyes. Personal pet peeve.Dbzfan94 wrote:Ugh. Seeing “Juuhachigo” in a English fic is the freaking worstJackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Agreed there.Jackalope89 wrote:Yep. Even seeing people on here write those kinds of things out, I can't help but roll my eyes. Personal pet peeve.Dbzfan94 wrote:Ugh. Seeing “Juuhachigo” in a English fic is the freaking worstJackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Ki is simply the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word "Chi" or "Qi" (same as "Shenron" is for "Shen Long" or "Shuushinchuu" is for "Si Xing Qiu"), a concept which has existed for thousands upon thousands of years. Saying that Toriyama "invented" the word for Dragon Ball would be not unlike saying that he also invented the concept of "martial arts" for Dragon Ball: myths and folklore surrounding Chi/Qi/Ki are roughly almost as old as the idea of traditional Chinese martial arts themselves.Bajosexto wrote:And in this case, Ki to energy. (which I'm not too sure if "Ki" is an actual Japanese world that means energy or a word invented by Toriyama that means energy)
This is absolutely, unequivocally false on just about every level.Android 21 wrote:Is there really any reason to? Toriyama’s concept of ki has little to no differences in nature to how energy is in reality (aside from shooting from their hands and the fictional level of control they have over it, of course).
It’s not even like it still has that “mystical,” mysterious nature it once had. It’s a biological concept that’s well understood by all advanced civilizations we’ve seen in the series. They’re even able to create blaster guns that imitate the energy.
The main group of characters depicted in DB who understand Ki on a purely scientific basis are Freeza's army: and their understanding of the concept as something that is "scientific" is constantly shown as a WEAKNESS and a LIMITATION of theirs, and proof that they don't really fully understand what it can do to the same degree as the Earth-based martial arts masters who treat it for the mysticism that it ultimately is.
Time and time again, DB shows that trying to quantify Ki as something biological or science based is a fool's errand: one that usually gets the people who do it killed by martial artists who understand its nature far, far better than they do. Scouters are unreliable because they can only measure the amount of Ki currently and immediately being used or generated rather than the full spectrum and potential that a person is capable of cultivating from it. Fighters who use scouters do so without the ability to understand how to "sense" Ki through more intuitive/mystical means, and this limitation almost ALWAYS gets them killed by their opponent.
Simply put: Freeza and his minions DON'T understand Ki almost at all: they're unimaginably, freakishly strong in their immediate usage of it, but they're shown to wield it clumsily and like a cudgel, relying on pure brute force to overpower weaker enemies, while being constantly blindsided by the skill, finesse, and versatility with which the main DB cast can use it. Their understanding of it as "biological/scientific" is time and again depicted by the story as flawed and innately incorrect: hence why/how they're beaten by a Saiyan raised on Earth as a Chinese hillbilly kung fu master and his companions, all of whom were trained to wield this mystical power under a much fuller and better understanding of it as... a mystical power.
One of the nuances of the original Japanese version that's lost by the dub's refusal to acknowledge Ki is the stark difference in terminology used by the different factions of characters. Characters such as Freeza's army NEVER use the word "Ki" in the Japanese version, instead using the English word "energy". Even Vegeta NEVER ONCE uses the term Ki and substitutes it for energy, until WAY later into the series after he's trained on Earth among Goku and the rest of the DB crew for a sufficiently long while. This is in stark contrast to Goku and the main cast, who almost ALWAYS refer to it as Ki constantly.
This isn't an accident: this is a very, very deliberate (and nicely subtle) depiction of the VERY different outlooks and understandings of the concept between a group of Toriyama-ified Wuxia martial arts masters who train with it on a wonky, Slumpian mish mash hybrid world of ancient Chinese Jianghu fantasy and futuristic modernity, and a bunch of brutish, thuggish, barbaric space mercs with no such ancient Chinese culture who inelegantly use it solely as a blunt-force murder weapon rather than train with it actively as a mystical art form.
It takes getting soundly beaten by Goku and co. (using Ki in ways that they've never even imagined was possible) to get first Vegeta and then later (and solely in Super) Freeza to actively train themselves to hone it with more finesse and to combine their brute strength with a more intuitive/mystical understanding of what Ki is and can do when wielded properly.
This isn't an accident because Ki ISN'T just solely a fancy Japanese word for "energy" as a lot of people in this thread are claiming without any real sense of context for what they're talking about. There are any number of different ways to refer to "energy" in a more generic sense in other languages like Japanese, including (as Vegeta, Freeza, and their ilk so often so) simply using the English word "energy".
Ki, or Chi or Qi, is a VERY SPECIFICALLY Buddhist/Taoist concept. THERE IS NO OTHER CONTEXT THAN THIS FOR IT. When you use a word like "Ki/Chi", you are unavoidably and unmistakably invoking ancient Taoist mysticism. When you want to invoke the idea of "energy" in a more generic/sci fi sense, you would NEVER use this word, in Japanese, Chinese, etc. That's simply and undeniably false on a stone cold, iron clad factual basis. THIS IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON FOR WHY Toriyama would invoke this very deliberate and particular word distinction between Freeza's army/Dr. Gero, and the main martial artist cast of DB.
No matter the story arc, there is an undeniably sharp divide between Dragon Ball characters who perceive Ki as a generic sci fi energy source and characters who understand it on a more mystical kung fu basis. And of those two, one is shown, time and again, as having an innately greater/better understanding of it and how to use it well than the other, no matter how big the sheer brute-force power gap between them otherwise may be.
This is ultimately why it is IMPERATIVE for ANY translation or dub for Dragon Ball with any hint of accuracy MUST simply leave the word Ki or Chi as is: because while "spiritual energy" is a reasonably decent approximation for what it means (and the dub never even uses the "spiritual" part of that phrase: it goes solely for "energy" which contains a clear and definitive sci fi implication that is totally misleading), it loses ALL of the cultural and religious/spiritual context for what this concept ultimately means and entails.
This isn't like any random, regular day to day word like "Sayonara", "Nani", or "Hai" or what have you, which have a definite and starkly clear one to one transfer from Japanese to English: Ki/Chi is a loaded word that is intrinsically and inseparably tied to its Taoist/Buddhist origins. It is an innately religious/spiritual term, not just some random Japanese word than can be easily translated with nothing important lost in the transition. And in a story like Dragon Ball, which revolves around martial arts masters training and fighting using Ki/Chi cultivation techniques... yeah, there is ZERO mistaking on ANY possible level just what the proper context of this concept is in this story. This is a Chinese fairy tale of ancient kung fu mystics given a contemporary sci fi nudge in the ribs: not the other way around.
The FUNimation dub's refusal to use this word or acknowledge this concept is one of its single most definitive, all time unarguably and indefensibly boneheaded mistakes that renders so much of the whole enterprise into such a vapid pit of immense stupidity, as it undermines the ENTIRE core foundations (cultural/folkloric, etc) upon which the ENTIRE franchise is HINGED upon.
Taken COMPLETELY in a vacuum and without cheating and piggybacking information from the Japanese version, the Viz translation of the manga, or the video games, the in the "dub-verse" of FUNimation's Dragon Bawl Zee, these characters have ZERO reason or basis or explanation for why they can do the incredible things they do. They're superheroes who's superpowers are total and utter non-sequiturs: they can simply fly, move mountains with their bare hands, and blow up planets with lasers from their hands purely just because they can, context be damned, don't ask so many questions.
I've said it before, and I'll say it many times more again and again because it is an undeniable and unshakable fact at this point: the only reason we keep on having these immensely crucial misunderstandings about the very core idea of what this series even is or embodies in this fanbase is 100% pure ignorance for and inexperience with Buddhist/Taoist mythology and for Wuxia as a pulp genre of ancient Chinese martial arts fantasy fiction (of which DB is a Japanese derivative, and by NO means the first or only such one).
The post-CN Western audience for DB is overwhelmingly primarily familiar with sci fi and with superhero stories, and for fantasy it is familiar mainly with European examples: Chinese/martial arts fantasy is EXCEEDINGLY limited in the general cultural osmosis of millennial audiences for DB (outside of scattered, rare few examples like Avatar: The Last Airbender). And because DB so often blends sci fi trappings along with its Wuxia/kung fu fantasy bread and butter, the distinction is so often lost to this audience, and it simply gets lumped in without a second thought as something with a more sci fi/superhero bent than it actually really is.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
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Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Mirai Trunks lol. Surely there's got to be some word in the English dictionary that can be substituted for Mirai...Dbzfan94 wrote:Ugh. Seeing “Juuhachigo” in a English fic is the freaking worstJackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
I know why.
The Artistic license BS.
The Artistic license BS.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
To be fair I don't think anyone has consistency in the terms they use. Which is why I am sad the world filter is gone, at least there was consistency across the forum.Jackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
There is, there's Future Trunks, Trunks from the Future, alternate timeline Trunks,.... Just as you can translate 18s Japanese name into several ways like Android, Artificial Human,... and all of its fine.Timetraveller wrote:Mirai Trunks lol. Surely there's got to be some word in the English dictionary that can be substituted for Mirai...Dbzfan94 wrote:Ugh. Seeing “Juuhachigo” in a English fic is the freaking worstJackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
The only real Dragon Ball thing that's a bitch to translate into English is Makankosappo, I've yet to see a translation of it, accurate or otherwise, into English that doesn't sound God awful.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
I see what you’re getting at, but this isn’t really the case. The Namekians have just as much knowledge of the supposed “mystical” side of ki as the Earthlings, if not much more. This did nothing for them against Frieza or anyone stronger than them. Would Cui have been able to defeat Vegeta if he could sense ki? It wouldn’t have made a difference. Just because it can’t be measured doesn’t mean it should still be looked at as some mystical concept. Even the ability to sense ki was written off as a technique Vegeta just casually picked up. He didn’t go through any enlightenment or epiphany.Kunzait_83 wrote:This is absolutely, unequivocally false on just about every level.Android 21 wrote:Is there really any reason to? Toriyama’s concept of ki has little to no differences in nature to how energy is in reality (aside from shooting from their hands and the fictional level of control they have over it, of course).
It’s not even like it still has that “mystical,” mysterious nature it once had. It’s a biological concept that’s well understood by all advanced civilizations we’ve seen in the series. They’re even able to create blaster guns that imitate the energy.
The main group of characters depicted in DB who understand Ki on a purely scientific basis are Freeza's army: and their understanding of the concept as something that is "scientific" is constantly shown as a WEAKNESS and a LIMITATION of theirs, and proof that they don't really fully understand what it can do to the same degree as the Earth-based martial arts masters who treat it for the mysticism that it ultimately is.
Time and time again, DB shows that trying to quantify Ki as something biological or science based is a fool's errand: one that usually gets the people who do it killed by martial artists who understand its nature far, far better than they do. Scouters are unreliable because they can only measure the amount of Ki currently and immediately being used or generated rather than the full spectrum and potential that a person is capable of cultivating from it. Fighters who use scouters do so without the ability to understand how to "sense" Ki through more intuitive/mystical means, and this limitation almost ALWAYS gets them killed by their opponent.
Frieza was beaten by the Super Saiyan, a Power Goku did not understand. His “mystical understanding” of ki did him no good against Frieza. Super Saiyan was triggered by rage, which is a chemical, biological reaction to a particular event. And with Toriyama’s latest explanation for Super Saiyans, the “S-Cell” concept, he’s made it into even more of a biological concept.Kunzait_83 wrote:Simply put: Freeza and his minions DON'T understand Ki almost at all: they're unimaginably, freakishly strong in their immediate usage of it, but they're shown to wield it clumsily and like a cudgel, relying on pure brute force to overpower weaker enemies, while being constantly blindsided by the skill, finesse, and versatility with which the main DB cast can use it. Their understanding of it as "biological/scientific" is time and again depicted by the story as flawed and innately incorrect: hence why/how they're beaten by a Saiyan raised on Earth as a Chinese hillbilly kung fu master and his companions, all of whom were trained to wield this mystical power under a much fuller and better understanding of it as... a mystical power.
While this may have been Toriyama’s original intention, he did a poor job showing it. Goku’s training on the way to Namek was extremely conventional. He didn’t practice his forms, his ki control, or even so much as do a stereotypical meditation pose. It was all stuff to train his physical body. On the contrary, most recently in Super, Frieza was the one doing this kind of training in hell, despite having no understanding of ki as a “mystical concept.” Such a thing was never even mentioned to him.Kunzait_83 wrote:One of the nuances of the original Japanese version that's lost by the dub's refusal to acknowledge Ki is the stark difference in terminology used by the different factions of characters. Characters such as Freeza's army NEVER use the word "Ki" in the Japanese version, instead using the English word "energy". Even Vegeta NEVER ONCE uses the term Ki and substitutes it for energy, until WAY later into the series after he's trained on Earth among Goku and the rest of the DB crew for a sufficiently long while. This is in stark contrast to Goku and the main cast, who almost ALWAYS refer to it as Ki constantly.
This isn't an accident: this is a very, very deliberate (and nicely subtle) depiction of the VERY different outlooks and understandings of the concept between a group of Toriyama-ified Wuxia martial arts masters who train with it on a wonky, Slumpian mish mash hybrid world of ancient Chinese Jianghu fantasy and futuristic modernity, and a bunch of brutish, thuggish, barbaric space mercs with no such ancient Chinese culture who inelegantly use it solely as a blunt-force murder weapon rather than train with it actively as a mystical art form.
You must be remembering that first Vegeta fight differently, because they all won solely due to luck. He had no reason to think that his understanding of ki caused his defeat, as this is never even mentioned to him. Frieza had no way of knowing to apply any kind of mystical understanding to his training. And I don’t think biting his opponents counts as finesse on Goku’s part. Frieza fought with more finesse than Goku.Kunzait_83 wrote:It takes getting soundly beaten by Goku and co. (using Ki in ways that they've never even imagined was possible) to get first Vegeta and then later (and solely in Super) Freeza to actively train themselves to hone it with more finesse and to combine their brute strength with a more intuitive/mystical understanding of what Ki is and can do when wielded properly.
I’m not saying this isn’t true, but the distinction is no longer necessary. There is no relevant difference in the way Goku perceives ki and the way Frieza does. It has no significant bearing in the plot as you claim. Frieza at first defeats Goku because he is stronger. Then Goku defeats Frieza because he is stronger. That’s it.Kunzait_83 wrote:This isn't an accident because Ki ISN'T just solely a fancy Japanese word for "energy" as a lot of people in this thread are claiming without any real sense of context for what they're talking about. There are any number of different ways to refer to "energy" in a more generic sense in other languages like Japanese, including (as Vegeta, Freeza, and their ilk so often so) simply using the English word "energy".
This doesn’t matter because Toriyama doesn’t actively recognize any significant difference between the two concepts. They may be there, but the differences are ultimately irrelevant to the progression of the plot. And we see characters doing things that suggest contrary to what you claim. Dr. Gero is even able to create technology that supplies an endless amount of energy, and more significantly, absorption nodes that can be used to outright steal the so called “mystical energy.” Remind me, if it’s not a concept that’s easily understood by science, how is he able to do such a thing?Kunzait_83 wrote:Ki, or Chi or Qi, is a VERY SPECIFICALLY Buddhist/Taoist concept. THERE IS NO OTHER CONTEXT THAN THIS FOR IT. When you use a word like "Ki/Chi", you are unavoidably and unmistakably invoking ancient Taoist mysticism. When you want to invoke the idea of "energy" in a more generic/sci fi sense, you would NEVER use this word, in Japanese, Chinese, etc. That's simply and undeniably false on a stone cold, iron clad factual basis. THIS IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON FOR WHY Toriyama would invoke this very deliberate and particular word distinction between Freeza's army/Dr. Gero, and the main martial artist cast of DB.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re referring to here other than the Namek Saga. Yes, the Earth’s ability to sense ki and manipulate their energy did help them against Frieza’s forces. But these were techniques that were so easily understood that Vegeta picked it up just by seeing the acts be performed. There was no special understanding of ki that Vegeta was made aware of it needed to learn. He just did it.Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter the story arc, there is an undeniably sharp divide between Dragon Ball characters who perceive Ki as a generic sci fi energy source and characters who understand it on a more mystical kung fu basis. And of those two, one is shown, time and again, as having an innately greater/better understanding of it and how to use it well than the other, no matter how big the sheer brute-force power gap between them otherwise may be.
The cultural and religious context is almostly completely gone by the time of Z anyway. Based on what you’ve said, it was clearly there, but it was not as significant as you seem to think it was.Kunzait_83 wrote:This is ultimately why it is IMPERATIVE for ANY translation or dub for Dragon Ball with any hint of accuracy MUST simply leave the word Ki or Chi as is: because while "spiritual energy" is a reasonably decent approximation for what it means (and the dub never even uses the "spiritual" part of that phrase: it goes solely for "energy" which contains a clear and definitive sci fi implication that is totally misleading), it loses ALL of the cultural and religious/spiritual context for what this concept ultimately means and entails.
Again, you’re placing far too much significance within this concept. It is mostly ignored by the time of Z.Kunzait_83 wrote:The FUNimation dub's refusal to use this word or acknowledge this concept is one of its single most definitive, all time unarguably and indefensibly boneheaded mistakes that renders so much of the whole enterprise into such a vapid pit of immense stupidity, as it undermines the ENTIRE core foundations (cultural/folkloric, etc) upon which the ENTIRE franchise is HINGED upon.
All in all, the dubs lose nothing significant to the overall story in any arc by not making this distinction. It isn’t significant enough to the plot for you to make such a claim
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Ki is still part of the plot, but since Z isn't a new show, just further into the story, there wasn't any reason for the story to not take it as a given.
I will say this, though, just by virtue of knowing the ancient Chinese root of the concept wouldn't mean the American audience would've understood the roots of DB much better when watching the show.
I will say this, though, just by virtue of knowing the ancient Chinese root of the concept wouldn't mean the American audience would've understood the roots of DB much better when watching the show.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Interesting. I knew that Ki was related to the Chinese word Chi, but not that it was just the Japanese pronounciation of the word. Since I've only heard the word Ki used in Dragon Ball, I thought that maybe Toriyama had invented the word based on the Chinese word Chi.Kunzait_83 wrote:Ki is simply the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word "Chi" or "Qi" (same as "Shenron" is for "Shen Long" or "Shuushinchuu" is for "Si Xing Qiu"), a concept which has existed for thousands upon thousands of years. Saying that Toriyama "invented" the word for Dragon Ball would be not unlike saying that he also invented the concept of "martial arts" for Dragon Ball: myths and folklore surrounding Chi/Qi/Ki are roughly almost as old as the idea of traditional Chinese martial arts themselves.Bajosexto wrote:And in this case, Ki to energy. (which I'm not too sure if "Ki" is an actual Japanese world that means energy or a word invented by Toriyama that means energy)
For some reason it is completely okay to use untranslated Japanese words only if we personally use them. But if someone says "Juuhachigo" then they are somehow weebs. (Yes I know Juuhachigo literary meas eighteen. I do think it's a little silly to use Juuhachigo intead of just 18. I'm just using this as an example) But using "Majin"? No. That doesn't make you a weeb. I grew up with that term. My dub uses it. See my point?Baggie_Saiyan wrote:To be fair I don't think anyone has consistency in the terms they use. Which is why I am sad the world filter is gone, at least there was consistency across the forum.Jackalope89 wrote:For the same reason certain fanfic authors are determined call things like the Dragon Balls or 17 and 18 by their Japanese names, but then turn around call Kami "God".
And no, I'm not making that up.
I agree with you. No one really has consistency in which terms they translate and which they keep as is. For example, pretty much everyone uses God of Destruction and not the untranslated term "Hakaishin", but these same people (me included) use Kaioshin or Kais instead of the translated Gods of Gods/Lords of Lords. Kaioshin or Lords of Lords, they're both acceptable. 18 or Juuhachigo, it's probably easier to just say 18. In the end it comes down to personal preference. Just let people use whatever they want to use. I do. Even if REALLY bothers me when someone uses Tien instead of Tenshinhan.
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
This might make me sound completely silly, but why would the Japanese pronunciation of "chi" be "ki" when they have a character for "chi?" "チー" should do the trick, no?
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
Well, the Japanese readings of Chinese happened over a thousand years ago, and both languages' phonology have changed a lot since then.TheGreatness25 wrote:This might make me sound completely silly, but why would the Japanese pronunciation of "chi" be "ki" when they have a character for "chi?" "チー" should do the trick, no?
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Re: Why does Funimation refuse to acknowledge the term "Ki"?
I heard the term in Outlaw Star, though the Bandai release translates it as "chi" in the subtitles. But you do hear "ki" in the dub, (which I prefer to the sub actually). No clue whether Funimation in their re-release just uses the subtitles that Bandai used, or did their own translation.Bajosexto wrote:Interesting. I knew that Ki was related to the Chinese word Chi, but not that it was just the Japanese pronounciation of the word. Since I've only heard the word Ki used in Dragon Ball, I thought that maybe Toriyama had invented the word based on the Chinese word Chi.Kunzait_83 wrote:Ki is simply the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word "Chi" or "Qi" (same as "Shenron" is for "Shen Long" or "Shuushinchuu" is for "Si Xing Qiu"), a concept which has existed for thousands upon thousands of years. Saying that Toriyama "invented" the word for Dragon Ball would be not unlike saying that he also invented the concept of "martial arts" for Dragon Ball: myths and folklore surrounding Chi/Qi/Ki are roughly almost as old as the idea of traditional Chinese martial arts themselves.Bajosexto wrote:And in this case, Ki to energy. (which I'm not too sure if "Ki" is an actual Japanese world that means energy or a word invented by Toriyama that means energy)






