Just how strong was Goku at the end of GT?

[PFM18]

The only reference point we have in GT to Z is General Rilldo, who Goku states is superior to Kid Buu. Kid Goku as a SSJ1 easily defeats Rilldo. Therefore, Goku's SSJ1 from GT has to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku from Z which is 400x base. Thus, (400/50) = 8x. Hence,

Base Goku states that General Rildo is stronger than "Majin Buu" which I agree probably refers to Kid Buu but it is worth noting it is left to interpretation. But Goku fought this same Rildo evenly if not having a slight edge. THEN, they each transform, Goku to SSJ and Rildo into whatever his new form was called. Then he is easily defeating Rildo. But the implication was that Base GT Goku during this time was at least as strong as Kid Buu. Not that he got 8x stronger since the Buu Arc.

8x 1.10^(100) = 110,000x stronger from the defeat of Kid Buu to 100 years after GT

This doesn't take into account the boosts that he got throughout GT after his fight with Rildo. the Goku after the final fight of GT that went off for 100 years was a bare minimum of a couple thousand times stronger as his Buu Arc self in equivalent forms.

I realize this is just for fun but still

[shadowfox87]

Base Goku states that General Rildo is stronger than "Majin Buu" which I agree probably refers to Kid Buu but it is worth noting it is left to interpretation. But Goku fought this same Rildo evenly if not having a slight edge. THEN, they each transform, Goku to SSJ and Rildo into whatever his new form was called. Then he is easily defeating Rildo. But the implication was that Base GT Goku during this time was at least as strong as Kid Buu. Not that he got 8x stronger since the Buu Arc.

Yea, I'm going to assume Kid Buu because that is the form that Goku would remember the most. It's not clear how much stronger Rilldo is. I think Adult Base Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu, but Kid Goku would still need SSJ1. If you're saying that Kid Goku > Kid Buu, then he would be more than 400x stronger since he last fought Kid Buu 15 years ago.

This doesn't take into account the boosts that he got throughout GT after his fight with Rildo. the Goku after the final fight of GT that went off for 100 years was a bare minimum of a couple thousand times stronger as his Buu Arc self in equivalent forms.

I realize this is just for fun but still

Yes, he definitely got stronger after his fight with Rilldo all the way up to Omega / Li Shenron. However, note that I'm still using the same logic that zenkai boosts have become saturated and the only for Goku to get stronger now is through training.

Main point is that even GT Goku without any god ki, can still reach the level of SSB through training alone.

[PFM18]

If you're saying that Kid Goku > Kid Buu, then he would be more than 400x stronger since he last fought Kid Buu 15 years ago.

That is just what the show is portraying. Goku was able to defeat somebody stronger than Kid Buu in his base. For this to be possible his base would need to be 400x stronger than when he fought Kid Buu 15 years prior

[mute_proxy]

If you're saying that Kid Goku > Kid Buu, then he would be more than 400x stronger since he last fought Kid Buu 15 years ago.

That is just what the show is portraying. Goku was able to defeat somebody stronger than Kid Buu in his base. For this to be possible his base would need to be 400x stronger than when he fought Kid Buu 15 years prior

He didn't defeat anyone in his base form stronger than Buu in GT. Using a gigantic spirit bomb is not the same as utilizing your base form.

[shadowfox87]

If you're saying that Kid Goku > Kid Buu, then he would be more than 400x stronger since he last fought Kid Buu 15 years ago.

That is just what the show is portraying. Goku was able to defeat somebody stronger than Kid Buu in his base. For this to be possible his base would need to be 400x stronger than when he fought Kid Buu 15 years prior

He didn't defeat anyone in his base form stronger than Buu in GT. Using a gigantic spirit bomb is not the same as utilizing your base form.

Yea, I rewatched Episode 19 and 20 of GT. Goku comments that Rilldo in his base is stronger than Buu. Goku never defeats him though until he transforms into a SSJ. Rilldo further transforms twice.

Rilldo base = 1.25x Kid Buu = 1.25x 400x Goku Base (DBZ)
Hyper Mega Rilldo = 1.25x Rilldo base = 1.25^2 x 400x Goku Base (DBZ)
Metal Rilldo = 1.25x Hyper Mega Rilldo = 1.25^3 x 400x Goku Base (DBZ)

SSJ Goku (GT) = 1.5x Metal Rilldo = 1.5x 1.25^3 x 400x Goku Base (DBZ)
Kid Goku Base (GT) = SSJ Goku / 50 = (1.5x1.25^3 x 400)/50 = 23.4375x Goku Base (DBZ)

Then, let's say Goku got about 30% stronger each arc. There were only 3 arcs in GT - Baby Saga, Super 17 Saga, and Evil Shenrons Saga. There wasn't much time between these arcs and zenkai is saturated so 30% is VERY generous.

Kid Goku Base (after Evil Shenron Saga) = 1.3^3 x 23.4 = 51.5x Goku Base (DBZ)

Then, giving the 10% boost each year for 100 years until the Goku Jr. Saga.

Adult Goku (after 100 years) = 1.1^100 x 51.5 x Goku Base (DBZ) = 710,000x Goku Base (DBZ)
SSJ4 Adult Goku (after 80 years) = 500x 1.1^80 x 51.5 x Goku Base (DBZ) = 52.7 million x Goku Base (DBZ) < SSB Goku (Post-ToP) by 25%


Which makes him the strongest Base Goku in history. If you count SDBH, it's not known at which point in the future Chronoa summons Goku to have him become Goku: Xeno. Everyone's got their opinions, but I do believe it makes the most sense for that Goku to be from the GT timeline in the future. If she summoned him 80 years after the end of GT instead of 100, then as a SSJ4, he'd still be weaker than SSB Goku from Super, but only by 25% based on my own calculations using log scale. It makes sense why it would be a little before the 100 years since by then, things were at peace and Goku was able to watch the tournament.

[Saturnine]

If you're saying that Kid Goku > Kid Buu, then he would be more than 400x stronger since he last fought Kid Buu 15 years ago.

That is just what the show is portraying. Goku was able to defeat somebody stronger than Kid Buu in his base. For this to be possible his base would need to be 400x stronger than when he fought Kid Buu 15 years prior

Or we could simply realize that GT wasn't going by the multipliers established by the SEG, which came out 12 years later than it did. There are serious hints that the SSj form wasn't written as 50x stronger consistently and always, especially GT was quite liberal with the multipliers. Assuming Goku was 400x stronger than he was in the Buu arc is a mental shortcut and a lazy simplification. Still, that's what we got I guess, lol

[Ssjcell]

Probably as strong as golden frieza

[PFM18]

Yea, I rewatched Episode 19 and 20 of GT. Goku comments that Rilldo in his base is stronger than Buu. Goku never defeats him though until he transforms into a SSJ. Rilldo further transforms twice.

Yes, but just because he didn't actually defeat him until he used SSJ against a further form doesn't mean much. He competed with, if not having an advantage against an opponent stated to be stronger than Kid Buu. Therefore, Base Goku>Kid Buu. Saying he didn't actually Rildo defeat until he went SSJ is like saing Vegeta wasn't stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell because he didn't defeat him. He didn't defeat Rildo in Base but he showed to be as strong or stronger than him, whether he actually defeated him in Base is irrelevant.

Then, let's say Goku got about 30% stronger each arc. There were only 3 arcs in GT - Baby Saga, Super 17 Saga, and Evil Shenrons Saga. There wasn't much time between these arcs and zenkai is saturated so 30% is VERY generous.

These estimations are not necessary since we get indications of Goku's progression throughout GT.

In the Black Star Dragon Balls Arc, he is as strong or stronger than Base Rildo in his Base who is stronger than Kid Buu.
In the Baby Arc, he is significantly stronger than Baby Ultimate Gohan(who is obviously stronger than Z Ultimate Gohan.)
In the Super 17 Arc, Goku's SSJ is shown to be stronger than Majuub who was stronger than SSJ3 Goku during the Baby Arc. Hence:

Kid Buu<Base GT Goku<Baby Ultimate Gohan<Base Goku Baby Arc<<<SSJ3 Goku Baby Arc<Majuub<SSJ Goku Super 17 Arc

Then we don't get much indication of how much stronger he got from Super 17->Shadow Dragons Arcs IIRC. THEN, estimations are necessary. I won't get into the specifics of the calculations, but I have Base Goku from the Super 17 Arc being 288x stronger than his SSJ3 Buu Arc self from Z.(or in other words his base is 115,200x stronger than his Base during the Buu Arc.) This being about 1/42nd of the power of Base Goku at the beginning of the ToP.

But since we can't determine his strength gains from Super 17->Shadow Dragons Arcs, I'll go with your figure of 30%. So it follows that:

EoGT Goku = 288*1.3*(1.1^100)= 5.15 Million times stronger than SSJ3 Goku from the Buu Arc.

Ultimately, I agree that he becomes the strongest Base Goku in history after the 100 year time skip.

[p-hyvo]

easy, a fucking lot.

you mean kid Goku or 100 years after gt Goku? that changes a lot yur question.

kid Goku at the end of gt is easily trillions of times stronger than buu saga Goku without doubts, if yu mean 100 ya Goku instead,he's indirectly stated to be anyway weaker than ssj4 gogeta in his base form, but we kan guess that the difference is not that much

[shadowfox87]

Yes, but just because he didn't actually defeat him until he used SSJ against a further form doesn't mean much. He competed with, if not having an advantage against an opponent stated to be stronger than Kid Buu. Therefore, Base Goku>Kid Buu. Saying he didn't actually Rildo defeat until he went SSJ is like saing Vegeta wasn't stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell because he didn't defeat him. He didn't defeat Rildo in Base but he showed to be as strong or stronger than him, whether he actually defeated him in Base is irrelevant.

So I ended up going with the assumption that Base Rilldo is stronger than Kid Buu and that Base Kid Goku is on par if not stronger than Base Rilldo.

Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga)
Base Rilldo = 1.5x Kid Buu
Base Kid Goku = 1.5x Base Rilldo = 1.5x 1.5x 400x Base Goku (Buu Saga) = 900x Base Goku (Buu Saga)

Then 30% increase after Baby, Super 17, and Evil Shenrons.

Base Kid Goku (Post Evil Shenron) = (1.3^3)(1.5)(1.5)(400) = 1977x Base Goku (Buu Saga)

Then after gaining 10% each year for 100 years.

Base Adult Goku (after 100 years) = (1.3^3)(1.55)(1.5)(400)(1.1^100) = 28 million x Base Goku (Buu Saga)

For fun, I wanted to know what he would be after only 41 years because Pilaf reverted Goku to 12 years of age when his original age was 53. I've put that this Goku is the one that Chronoa summons and becomes Goku: Xeno.

Base Adult Goku (after 41 years) = (1.3^3)(1.5)(1.5)(400)(1.1^41) = 98400 x Base Goku (Buu Saga)

From my own log scaling, this Goku after 41 years in SSJ4 is 25% weaker than Post-ToP SSB Goku. Makes sense for my own headcanon since SSJ4 Goku lost in SDBH to SSB Goku as he runs out of breath in the game. This wasn't shown in the anime or manga though.