The case
Goku fights cell as a regular super saiyan does well if there's a 50 times multiplier which I find debatable what's the lowest you can put his base power level 50 million ? Alright I doubt this it has to be much higher. With the new found power gains how is it implausible that he is simply much higher in base strong enough to fight frieza I think so.....
Buu arc dabura and babidi explain that piccolo and Kuririn are weaker than the base saiyans and they chose to try to extract their powers. Gohan as a ssj2 filled half of buu's power tank
Plus Gohan can barely handle the zsword as a ssj2 then at the end of his training he is clearly shown handling it in his base also base Goku handles the z-sword well enough for his first time
What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
Re: What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
I think the ultimate winner of the tournament would be Shin. When outlawing Super Saiyan transformations, he's the strongest fighter participating in the event. In fact, you could give the Saiyans their first transformation and I believe he could still win thanks to his psychic abilities which appear to be potent enough to work against an SSJ2. Beyond him, should Kibito follow the same strategy then Gohan would have no choice but to use Super Saiyan. As of that point in time, he has yet to avenge Videl's sadistic torture at the hands of Spopovich -- combine that with the assurance to his mother of prize money and I think the others would make an exception for him to transform in order to advance to the next round.
Re: What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
Well, it's obvious. Base buu saga goku is in the billions alone power level wise. Considering he's stronger than shin in base, like Vegeta, that is stronger than piccolo, who's his fell games version is in the billions, it can't be different. Saying he's below freezer is just well, no sense. I like your way of thinkingSsjcell wrote:The case
Goku fights cell as a regular super saiyan does well if there's a 50 times multiplier which I find debatable what's the lowest you can put his base power level 50 million ? Alright I doubt this it has to be much higher. With the new found power gains how is it implausible that he is simply much higher in base strong enough to fight frieza I think so.....
Buu arc dabura and babidi explain that piccolo and Kuririn are weaker than the base saiyans and they chose to try to extract their powers. Gohan as a ssj2 filled half of buu's power tank
Plus Gohan can barely handle the zsword as a ssj2 then at the end of his training he is clearly shown handling it in his base also base Goku handles the z-sword well enough for his first time
Re: What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
Lionel wrote:I think the ultimate winner of the tournament would be Shin. When outlawing Super Saiyan transformations, he's the strongest fighter participating in the event. In fact, you could give the Saiyans their first transformation and I believe he could still win thanks to his psychic abilities which appear to be potent enough to work against an SSJ2. Beyond him, should Kibito follow the same strategy then Gohan would have no choice but to use Super Saiyan. As of that point in time, he has yet to avenge Videl's sadistic torture at the hands of Spopovich -- combine that with the assurance to his mother of prize money and I think the others would make an exception for him to transform in order to advance to the next round.
Shin psichic abilities are so weak he has difficulties to block someone (ssj2 Gohan) who is said do be a lot weaker than him. Shin severely lacks in fighting experience and training, in fact he's so unexpert he terribly fails in valutate the saiyan's strenght.
Plus, considering they he's scared by someone that Vegeta heated no diff in base (pui pui), the things are 2 : or pui pui Is stronger than him, or he's terrible at recognizing power. The first, which is the most sensed IMO, puts base goku and Vegeta above him in power, thing indirectly prooven against yakon : the monster is said by babidi to have the possibility to kill shin easy, and , even if base goku is weaker, we have seen that the difference isn't enormous through goku evading yakon's speedblites, thing that if he was a lot weaker, goku would have failed to do. I personally use this scale in kiri :
Dabra 4'440 - suppressed, vs Gohan 2'220
Gohan,babidy's ship, ssj2 2'000
Yakon 800
Goku 750
Vegeta 625
Pui pui 480
Shin 400
Gohan, babidi's ship 250
Gohan, tournament 35
Kibito 40
Goten 25
trunks 27,5
Piccolo, base 32,5
Piccolo, super namekian 260
This scale is good even because it highlights the power cliffing between cell and buu saga , considering that shin = ssjfp goku (cell games)
Completing it with cell saga, we can say :
Gohan, ssj2 + rage, wounded 4'800 (as said by Vegeta, he would've beaten dabra)
Super perfect cell 4'400 (around the strength of Sabra, as said by goku)
Cell, buff 4'000 (I use the same mult I use for ssjg3)
Cell, fullpower 800
Gohan , ssjfp 450 , 340 when wounded
Goku, ssjfp 375
Goku, base 5
Gohan , base 6
Vegeta, base 4
Trunks, base 3,5
Re: What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
The fact Shin is capable of restricting any SSJ2's movements, period, is impressive in and of itself, in my opinion, because of the relative lustre and value of the form. By that point in time, it was still the active Z-Warrior's weapon of choice in a serious situation who has access to Saiyan transformations. Also, experience? Training? This is a series where scientifically manipulated teenagers with no apparent background in martial training are able to fight on even footing with "seasoned" martial arts with no issues whatsoever at even power levels. I don't necessarily put too much stock into those qualifications, especially when the deuteragonist himself has admitted that he's never been formally trained in his life and who had a person like Cui for a rival up until the Saiyan incident on Earth where he was forced to retreat for the "first time in his life" (to paraphrase Vegeta's own words).
May I ask if there's any direct confirmation of Shin and the Z-Warriors having the ability to sense Babidi's minions? I have to ask because to my understanding, they weren't able to and were having to go off reputation and feel of their movements more than anything. Considering Shin's traumatic experience with the Majin faction and his apparent vexiphobia with anything that has their symbol on it, I don't fault him for his cautious demeanour. In fact, he wasn't even terrified of Pui-Pui -- he only recommended that they work together due to the unknown nature of their opponent, something which even Gohan recommended against Yakon at one point. Mind you, I don't subscribe to the "base saiyans overtook everyone else in their group" notion.
May I ask if there's any direct confirmation of Shin and the Z-Warriors having the ability to sense Babidi's minions? I have to ask because to my understanding, they weren't able to and were having to go off reputation and feel of their movements more than anything. Considering Shin's traumatic experience with the Majin faction and his apparent vexiphobia with anything that has their symbol on it, I don't fault him for his cautious demeanour. In fact, he wasn't even terrified of Pui-Pui -- he only recommended that they work together due to the unknown nature of their opponent, something which even Gohan recommended against Yakon at one point. Mind you, I don't subscribe to the "base saiyans overtook everyone else in their group" notion.
Re: What if the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai wasn’t interrupted?
That's basically what I was getting atp-hyvo wrote:Well, it's obvious. Base buu saga goku is in the billions alone power level wise. Considering he's stronger than shin in base, like Vegeta, that is stronger than piccolo, who's his fell games version is in the billions, it can't be different. Saying he's below freezer is just well, no sense. I like your way of thinkingSsjcell wrote:The case
Goku fights cell as a regular super saiyan does well if there's a 50 times multiplier which I find debatable what's the lowest you can put his base power level 50 million ? Alright I doubt this it has to be much higher. With the new found power gains how is it implausible that he is simply much higher in base strong enough to fight frieza I think so.....
Buu arc dabura and babidi explain that piccolo and Kuririn are weaker than the base saiyans and they chose to try to extract their powers. Gohan as a ssj2 filled half of buu's power tank
Plus Gohan can barely handle the zsword as a ssj2 then at the end of his training he is clearly shown handling it in his base also base Goku handles the z-sword well enough for his first time
