When did you start liking Vegeta?

[Forte224]

I've always liked him. He was a fun villain, then a devious antihero, then across the Cell and Boo arcs, he experienced some very interesting developments that took him to so many places, with no one point you could declare as a single moment where he became "One of the goodguys", just several times where he showed his progress. GT continued things a little, with him kind of living the aftermath of where he ended up after the Boo arc, which was neat to see for an ending to the story.

So, IMO he was always good.

Though, I really hate modern Dragon Ball's attempts to back-peddle parts of his Cell/Boo-era character development. Really irks me. One of many instances of modern Dragon Ball taking some kind of pop culture osmosis simulacrum version of a character, rather than actually continuing that character's progression from where they were in the Boo arc, and it invariably ends with a far less interesting portrayal of the character. (See also: Super Goku's idiocy)

I don't like Super/modern Dragon Ball that much, but I'm also not upset with his so-called backpedaling in Super. We all struggle with past demons and what not that we think we've overcome. And I think he still does show some development early on. He wants to surpass Goku just like before, but he doesn't completely neglect his family the way he did in the Cell arc and most of the Boo arc. It's just more of a motivator that keeps him in top shape these days. He's learned balance, I guess.

My problem with his character in Super is more that he is too riddled with fan service moments instead of having any meaningful development (outside of what I mentioned, which is basically established from episode 2 and remains the same until the end of Super).

[Oniman]

I always like Vegeta since day one.

[Sūpāsaiya]

For me it was when Vegeta fought Cui on Namek.

I really liked how he impressed everyone with his new powers. His scream was intense and some scouters exploded because of his power level.

The fact that he admits he learned something from Earth was also a plus. And of course, he is against the main villain of this new arc.

So when did you start liking him?

I completely agree, the Namek Saga is when we really get to know Vegeta. Having him not be the main baddie, but instead some kind of badass who has to team up with the main characters to fight the villian. I really liked his kind of, anti-hero, but not villian type of side y'know? I also quite liked Android Saga Vegeta, that was when he started becoming really freaking powerful (I'm not saying he was weak before or anything, but like, damn, Vegeta in the Android Saga was a beast). Him being bullied by Android 18 was also fun to watch, even though I like Vegeta more as a character. When he bullied Cell after obtaining the 2nd Grade of a Super Saiyan was so badass. His entire character just screams badass damnit. A common question every single Dragon Ball fan has heard is: "Who's better, Goku or Vegeta?" Those questions are really annoying, but I still go with Goku. I made it pretty clear I still love Vegeta though, but he doesn't even reach my Top 5 Favourite Characters, Goku barely does. But, uh, back to Vegeta. So, well, Buu Saga Vegeta was pretty awesome, they brought back how Vegeta always was. And, that is him being EVIL. When Majin Vegeta happened, I was so happy, happy that we finally got to see the two saiyans fight each other again. This was their SECOND fight in Z. We never really get to see that anymore, it's just them sparring. Majin Vegeta sacrificing himself was also a really good scene, it was sad and emotional. I don't quite know if it's the saddest moment in Dragon Ball though. The saddest moment for me was the Kamehameha clash between Gohan and Cell.

So, in short, I started liking him in the Namek Saga, and then I sorta stopped-ish in Super. It's not that Super Vegeta was bad or anything, but I liked Vegeta and Goku as enemies more, rather than friends. (Don't know if Vegeta considers Goku as a friend though...)

[Rubens]

I guess I liked Vegeta the most around Namek arc, where his character peaked my interest. That old armor with large shoulderpads looked good on him (I know he changed armor before fighting Freeza).

[ABED]

*sigh* And then, the Boo arc rolls along, and decides to find a way to make Vegeta even more frustrating for me. Things seem a little better at first, especially once Goku's on his way back into the mix of things, and we're going to get to see a re-match between the two of them! And we do get that re-match, but at the expense of Vegeta's character. His decision to allow Babidi to enchant him just so he can get more powerful is easily the most infuriating, backstepping moment in Vegeta's entire arc for me. For someone so full of pride, who even declares that he will never let go of that pride...he sacrifices that pride in the most stupid way possible. And 'I'm going to give up my family that I kinda love now just so I can fight Kakarot who I know is TOTALLY stronger than me but I can't let that stand!' isn't just egotistical, it's...it's stupid. Vapidly stupid. And it makes me hate Vegeta in this arc ALMOST more than I do in the Cell arc. The saving grace though again comes at the end of the arc, and unlike with Cell, this time it's done with enough flair and actually affects more in the long run that it actually halfway saves his involvement in the arc for me a little better. Vegeta's coming to terms that he might not ever surpass Goku is easily one of his finest moments.

It's backsliding but not in the negative way. Addicts backslide, and even in a fictional world where you want characters to progress, having a moment where they go back to old ways can be a great way to show systemic change. Vegeta had changed and challenging Goku to a battle he had wanted forever was the only way to pay off that story. If they hadn't had him backslide, it would've been too much. Vegeta needed it otherwise it would've felt rushed.

And sorry, but I'm tired of people throwing around words like "stupid". Stupid is when you don't see a simple option that's right in front of your face. Vegeta's reckless, evil, a dickhead, etc. but not stupid.

[DragonBallFoodie]

I started liking him around the time Freeza killed him and he made his dying speech to Goku. That was a very strong emotional moment from a character who'd till then been a dick. I think it's why Toriyama brought him back and gave him his own place in the saga as Goku's rival and his own character who believes in his Saiyan nature and its strength.

[ruler9871]

I don't like Super/modern Dragon Ball that much, but I'm also not upset with his so-called backpedaling in Super. We all struggle with past demons and what not that we think we've overcome. And I think he still does show some development early on. He wants to surpass Goku just like before, but he doesn't completely neglect his family the way he did in the Cell arc and most of the Boo arc. It's just more of a motivator that keeps him in top shape these days. He's learned balance, I guess.

My problem with his character in Super is more that he is too riddled with fan service moments instead of having any meaningful development (outside of what I mentioned, which is basically established from episode 2 and remains the same until the end of Super).

Same with me.

[Chilly]

Can't really say I'm a Vegeta fan, but there are points in the series that I really enjoyed his character. My favorite being his Cell saga version. I thoroughly enjoyed his smug demeanor and dialogue from the Android 19 encounter until pre-Perfect Cell. I could sort of believe his idiotic decisions throughout that arc because of that. And I'll also say I'm glad he hasn't been stuck in limbo like Goku has; I do like the fact that he has changed considerably since his debut.

[sailorspazz]

The very first episode of DBZ I ever saw was somewhere in the Namek stuff, and as soon as Vegeta appeared I knew he was something special. I don't know the exact episode, though based on my first impression of him being a guy running around just being a dick to everyone, it may have been when he was forcing Dodoria to tell him what happened to Planet Vegeta. I thought, "who is this magnificent asshole?" and that intrigue is what started me off down the path to where I am now I only had very basic knowledge of Dragon Ball at that point (I knew Gokuu was the protagonist, but I had no clue why Vegeta called him Kakarrot), but I continued watching each week to see where it would go, while also wishing to see the parts that came before (for whatever reason, my local syndication kept repeating only the Namek parts, never going back to the start of DBZ). Took about 2 years before it was picked up by Toonami and I could finally see him in his most delightfully evil form, and it made me fall for him even harder (what can I say, I love my villains ).

[Koitsukai]

I'm so Team Goku, but I enjoy Vegeta very much. Since he first set foot on Earth, I just loved him as the top dog, he scared the hell out of me as a little shit that even powerhouse Nappa feared.
Loved him on Namek, disliked him against the androids, enjoyed his development against Buu and I'm nuts over his new found "friendship" with Goku in Super. Acknowledging Goku while trashing Black and believing in him from the stands in the ToP and of course requesting Goku to show everyone how he defeats Jiren.

[SSJmole]

I liked him from the start he was an awesome villian then grew in to great anti-hero then hero.

To people saying he had no character growth in super or super undoes it. Have they seen super? Sure he has his rivalry with Goku still but it's more a friendly rivalry now. Super also added

- better father than Goku. He has lots of moments where he takes trunks and bulma on a trip out. Or takes an interest in what trunks is doing ect .. where Goku is kind of bad at acting like a father , especially to Gohan as he's not a fighter

- he's a good husband besides going crazy when beerus attacks bulma , vegetables is usually at his house except when he's training. However towards the end of volume 6 (after black is defeated but before tournament starts) he towels Goku he's not going to train with him. He doesn't care if Goku gets stronger without him he just wants to be there for bulma because she's pregnant. That's huge. Vegeta giving up becoming stronger and keeping up with Goku to look after his wife isn't significant growth to people?


Basically it goes
Saiyan saga - villian
Frieza Saga - reluctant ally (enemy of my enemy)
Android and cell Saga - anti hero
Start of buu - moment of weakness and relapse to become Majin
Mid to end of buu - hero

Then super and gt - family man hero. Super does it better but GT he takes his daughter shopping ect.. but super has the better character growth I feel.


His is the most interesting character development and growth in the series in my opinion.

[MajinMan]

I liked him from the start he was an awesome villian then grew in to great anti-hero then hero.

To people saying he had no character growth in super or super undoes it. Have they seen super? Sure he has his rivalry with Goku still but it's more a friendly rivalry now. Super also added

- better father than Goku. He has lots of moments where he takes trunks and bulma on a trip out. Or takes an interest in what trunks is doing ect .. where Goku is kind of bad at acting like a father , especially to Gohan as he's not a fighter

No? Do you know how many times Goku has praised his son or been supportive of his decision to quit fighting? Or how he was proud of his performance in the Tournament of Power and trusted him enough to make him team leader (even if it didn’t really mean anything)? Gohan is also a grown man with his own family and home now. He doesn’t need Goku to look after him.

[SSJmole]

I liked him from the start he was an awesome villian then grew in to great anti-hero then hero.

To people saying he had no character growth in super or super undoes it. Have they seen super? Sure he has his rivalry with Goku still but it's more a friendly rivalry now. Super also added

- better father than Goku. He has lots of moments where he takes trunks and bulma on a trip out. Or takes an interest in what trunks is doing ect .. where Goku is kind of bad at acting like a father , especially to Gohan as he's not a fighter

No? Do you know how many times Goku has praised his son or been supportive of his decision to quit fighting? Or how he was proud of his performance in the Tournament of Power and trusted him enough to make him team leader (even if it didn’t really mean anything)? Gohan is also a grown man with his own family and home now. He doesn’t need Goku to look after him.

Do you also know how many times in gohans life Goku either left him to train or almost got him lilies? Like cell Saga it took piccolo (who acted more like a dad to Gohan) to tell Goku he was killing his son.

In super he ignores him so much it almost seems Gohan is a little bitter , Goku is with goten because he likes to fight but Gohan he kinda of just leaves alone. Even piccolo constantly sees him , to the point piccolo has to tell him how to lose ok after pan.

Goku just doesn't seem like a good father to me.

[Cursed Lemon]

Vegeta always had charisma. That's one thing that made the saiyan saga so strong, having such a wonderful buildup for the entrance of Goku versus the badass appeal of a villain like Vegeta. His character development was very good all the way through the Frieza arc. It's sad that he was so misused after that.

[MajinMan]

No? Do you know how many times Goku has praised his son or been supportive of his decision to quit fighting? Or how he was proud of his performance in the Tournament of Power and trusted him enough to make him team leader (even if it didn’t really mean anything)? Gohan is also a grown man with his own family and home now. He doesn’t need Goku to look after him.

Do you also know how many times in gohans life Goku either left him to train or almost got him lilies? Like cell Saga it took piccolo (who acted more like a dad to Gohan) to tell Goku he was killing his son.

In super he ignores him so much it almost seems Gohan is a little bitter , Goku is with goten because he likes to fight but Gohan he kinda of just leaves alone. Even piccolo constantly sees him , to the point piccolo has to tell him how to lose ok after pan.

Goku just doesn't seem like a good father to me.

I was talking specifically about Super because that’s what you were talking about. And for the Cell arc, Goku was never “killing” his son. He knew that Gohan was their only hope of beating Cell, and even if he might’ve messed up by giving Cell a senzu, he still saved everyone, including his son, by sacrificing his own life. That makes it twice he’s literally died to save his son.

If you want to cherry pick situations from the older series then I can do the same with Vegeta, like how he was completely OK with Bulma and Baby Trunks dying from a car crash caused by Dr. Gero. Man, what a GREAT father/husband.

I have no clue where you got Gohan being bitter towards Goku in Super from. Goku is with Goten because he’s like 13 and still lives in his house. Gohan is in his 20’s and is living in his own house with his family. I don’t understand what the problem with this is.

[SSJmole]

I have no clue where you got Gohan being bitter towards Goku in Super from. Goku is with Goten because he’s like 13 and still lives in his house. Gohan is in his 20’s and is living in his own house with his family. I don’t understand what the problem with this is.

Everytime he talks about him he seems bitter to me.

In super vegeta takes his family on trips , like I said stays behind and refused to train to look after bulma and trunks when she's pregnant. Where Goku ignores them or what's best for them if it's something he wants like even highering am assassin to kill him for fun.

Sorry you don't see it but it's how I see it.

[MajinMan]

I have no clue where you got Gohan being bitter towards Goku in Super from. Goku is with Goten because he’s like 13 and still lives in his house. Gohan is in his 20’s and is living in his own house with his family. I don’t understand what the problem with this is.

Everytime he talks about him he seems bitter to me.

In super vegeta takes his family on trips , like I said stays behind and refused to train to look after bulma and trunks when she's pregnant. Where Goku ignores them or what's best for them if it's something he wants like even highering am assassin to kill him for fun.

Sorry you don't see it but it's how I see it.

No I understand that part. I agree that Vegeta is more of a normal family man in Super than Goku is, but I don’t necessarily agree that Goku is some awful father that his kids hate. If we go by just Super, then yah, Vegeta is the better dad.

[Kinokima]

I have no clue where you got Gohan being bitter towards Goku in Super from. Goku is with Goten because he’s like 13 and still lives in his house. Gohan is in his 20’s and is living in his own house with his family. I don’t understand what the problem with this is.

Everytime he talks about him he seems bitter to me.

In super vegeta takes his family on trips , like I said stays behind and refused to train to look after bulma and trunks when she's pregnant. Where Goku ignores them or what's best for them if it's something he wants like even highering am assassin to kill him for fun.

Sorry you don't see it but it's how I see it.

No I understand that part. I agree that Vegeta is more of a normal family man in Super than Goku is, but I don’t necessarily agree that Goku is some awful father that his kids hate. If we go by just Super, then yah, Vegeta is the better dad.

Honestly I think these Goku vs Vegeta arguments are really stupid. Neither Goku or Vegeta are perfect fathers, but neither are bad fathers either.

Vegeta against all odds has become someone who loves and cares about his family. In the past he did horrible things and didn’t care about his family. But his time on Earth changed him and slowly over the years he grew attached to his family where they are now very important to him. I’ve always said Vegeta’s story is about an evil alien learning humanity and learning to love others is part of that.


Goku has ALWAYS loved and cared about his family. Yes he goes off and trains a lot (but so does Vegeta).


This whole constant competition between everything about Goku and Vegeta (even over who is the better father) gets old. I mean compare Goku and Vegeta to Gohan and I think we can say neither should get father of the year awards.

But in the end I don’t think that should matter. Neither are perfect (and a lot of those imperfections stems from their Saiyan nature) but they both love their families and their families love them. And that’s what is important.

[Bryesque]

I started liking him around the time Freeza killed him and he made his dying speech to Goku. That was a very strong emotional moment from a character who'd till then been a dick. I think it's why Toriyama brought him back and gave him his own place in the saga as Goku's rival and his own character who believes in his Saiyan nature and its strength.

This was the big moment for me, too. But it started earlier with his "tactical truce" with Krillin and Gohan - this was a guy who very recently murdered his closest ally in cold blood on Earth, and now he was teaming up with people who nearly killed him. Showing Vegeta being that desperate and vulnerable, and fearful enough he could swallow some degree of his pride, helped humanize him a lot, even if he was still 100% a villain deep down. His death and speech to Goku is what made him sympathetic (if still not likeable, exactly).

It was definitely a slow-burn thing, though - and my appreciation for the character was, too. Moments like his sacrifice against Buu, and his final battle with Goku against Evil Buu, sealed the deal. But even in Super, moments like him feeding the survivors of Future Trunks' timeline, and his bond with Cabba, and his love for his family motivating him to fight above all else, really grab me.

The enemy-to-ally redemption angle has always been a part of Dragon Ball, but usually it's a pretty quick change. Even for Piccolo, he went from pure evil to legitimately heroic fairly quickly. Vegeta took a long time. It was a slow process, with a lot of setbacks, and even at this point he's at the mercy of some of his more selfish impulses from time to time. And in a weird way, that makes him a much more compelling character. More "realistic" almost. Change usually isn't quick or easy, and his evolution pays off so much more for that reason.

[Gligarman]

I was actually never really a fan of his until recently when Battle of Gods was released since he's a lot sillier than he use to be. Admittedly I prefer his portrayal in the manga. The main difference is that little extra fight scene they added between him and Gohan at the end of the Namek saga. It didn't happen in the manga and I think it made a little more sense for Bulma to invite him to live with her as a result.