Beerus's Attitude Towards Potential Destroyers.

[theherodjl]

Your right. I agree Beerus isn't the best person out there. But I don't hate him like I do the Olympians. As per your other question I realized halfway in that I wanted to include other quotes but I needed to copy them first and I had to submit the post in order to do that.

Honestly the best god morally I can think of is Thor.

No offense but it really seems that you're playing favorites with DB's pantheon in regards to whatever standard that Gods should live up to.

What DB's Gods do.
Kaioshin - Create life but very often fail to monitor it as a whole, allowing evil & strife to grow under their very noses and are utterly oblivious until it is way too late to stop it on their own and can lead to their death.

Hakaishin - Destroy life & objects as per their job but choose very poorly what they do eradicate and spend most of their time just loafing around until they decide to do their job. Such irresponsibility can lead to an untimely demise since the Hakaishin is connected to their respective Kaioshin's life force and if that Kaioshin dies...then they also die and their Angel attendant also goes dormant until new Gods can fill the vacant roles. It doesn't help that the Hakaishin we've seen care little about protecting their Kaioshin which means they're often too lazy to actively protect their own existence.

Angels - Have power & knowledge greater than Kaioshin & Hakaishin but act very little upon the needs of the universe/multiverse even when they can see that a grave threat is on the horizon.

Zeno - Is all powerful but ignores everything below him most of the time and will just destroy it all if it makes him mad.

A pattern can be seen here, the well being of existence is generally the last thing on their minds for various reasons and any & all suffering that comes about from it is totally inconsequential...because they're higher beings, what do they care?
Olympians are dicks, DB's Gods are dicks, neither can objectively be better than the other.

[Hulk10]

Your right. I agree Beerus isn't the best person out there. But I don't hate him like I do the Olympians. As per your other question I realized halfway in that I wanted to include other quotes but I needed to copy them first and I had to submit the post in order to do that.

Honestly the best god morally I can think of is Thor.

No offense but it really seems that you're playing favorites with DB's pantheon in regards to whatever standard that Gods should live up to.

What DB's Gods do.
Kaioshin - Create life but very often fail to monitor it as a whole, allowing evil & strife to grow under their very noses and are utterly oblivious until it is way too late to stop it on their own and can lead to their death.

Hakaishin - Destroy life & objects as per their job but choose very poorly what they do eradicate and spend most of their time just loafing around until they decide to do their job. Such irresponsibility can lead to an untimely demise since the Hakaishin is connected to their respective Kaioshin's life force and if that Kaioshin dies...then they also die and their Angel attendant also goes dormant until new Gods can fill the vacant roles. It doesn't help that the Hakaishin we've seen care little about protecting their Kaioshin which means they're often too lazy to actively protect their own existence.

Angels - Have power & knowledge greater than Kaioshin & Hakaishin but act very little upon the needs of the universe/multiverse even when they can see that a grave threat is on the horizon.

Zeno - Is all powerful but ignores everything below him most of the time and will just destroy it all if it makes him mad.

A pattern can be seen here, the well being of existence is generally the last thing on their minds for various reasons and any & all suffering that comes about from it is totally inconsequential...because they're higher beings, what do they care?
Olympians are dicks, DB's Gods are dicks, neither can objectively be better than the other.

No offense taken and I agree that both can be dicks. Beerus however does seem to care about his existence but your right both can neither be objectively better.


But on the original topic. I have a question. Is there a real problem with Beerus's intolerance for Destroyer Candidates?

[Melee_Sovereign]

Apparently beerus didnt learn anything from the ToP and whis acting stupid with him.

moro is freely destroying stuff and frieza who tried to kill goku again is still freely doint whatever he wants.
thats some CIS beyond the “Lazy“ excuse.

shitty writing at its finest.

Yeah, because he's not just lazy, he's an actual asshole who doesn't give a shit about mortal lives. I'm not surprised he resurrected Freeza because he let him terrorize the universe for decades anyway. I don't see why he should have changed.

He is a jerk I agree but he's better than the Olympian gods.

Or Lovecraftian gods.

Actually, I get a very Lovecraftian vibe from Zeno.

[Melee_Sovereign]

The main problem in my opinion is just how divded the God hierarchy is. You've got so many Destroyers and Kais, and then several lesser deities under them, and all these gods end up bickering amongst themselves instead of doing their job. To be honest a centralyzed system would be more effective. That's why I personally agree with Zamasu when he said that one God was all that the cosmos needed, that there was no longer a need for Kais and Destroyers.

It is a centralized system, as you have a single divine monarch at the top of it all (Zeno), and as far as I can tell, that is the problem with the entire god hierarchy in Dragon Ball. Below Zeno, you have Destroyers and Kais, and you have Angels that act as advisors and attendants. There's a separation of powers, and generally, any political system with a separation of powers, tend to be the most stable, efficient and beneficial. It's an answer to the old saying of absolute power, absolutely corrupts. The question is, why isn't there this separation of powers at the next level of the hierarchy where Zeno sits? Why is there no one else that has equal-leveled, but differentiated authority to him? Zeno almost seems like he's a Hakaishin above other Hakaishin. He gets petty and destroys on a whim, and he has an Angel attendant/advisor. Why isn't there an equivalent Kaioshin-like deity at his level?

I strongly disagree with Zamasu that there should only be one god. That is too much power in the hands of one being. That never works out, ever. In real life or otherwise. Zamasu, if he had his way, would have just been another Zeno, only smarter and more deranged.

Another problem with the hierarchy is the fact that Destroyers tend to be far more physically powerful than Kais, even though they're suppose to have equal (but differentiated) authoritative power. They do on paper, but the difference in physical power clearly disrupts that structure in practice. That's probably a huge factor in what causes the divide in the hierarchy (that and Zeno himself), is that there's an imbalance of powers. A lot of the Kais fear destroyers like Beerus when that shouldn't be the case if both have equal authority.

[Hulk10]

Yeah, because he's not just lazy, he's an actual asshole who doesn't give a shit about mortal lives. I'm not surprised he resurrected Freeza because he let him terrorize the universe for decades anyway. I don't see why he should have changed.

He is a jerk I agree but he's better than the Olympian gods.

Or Lovecraftian gods.

Actually, I get a very Lovecraftian vibe from Zeno.

Oh really?

[SupremeKai25]

The main problem in my opinion is just how divded the God hierarchy is. You've got so many Destroyers and Kais, and then several lesser deities under them, and all these gods end up bickering amongst themselves instead of doing their job. To be honest a centralyzed system would be more effective. That's why I personally agree with Zamasu when he said that one God was all that the cosmos needed, that there was no longer a need for Kais and Destroyers.

It is a centralized system, as you have a single divine monarch at the top of it all (Zeno), and as far as I can tell, that is the problem with the entire god hierarchy in Dragon Ball. Below Zeno, you have Destroyers and Kais, and you have Angels that act as advisors and attendants. There's a separation of powers, and generally, any political system with a separation of powers, tend to be the most stable, efficient and beneficial. It's an answer to the old saying of absolute power, absolutely corrupts. The question is, why isn't there this separation of powers at the next level of the hierarchy where Zeno sits? Why is there no one else that has equal-leveled, but differentiated authority to him? Zeno almost seems like he's a Hakaishin above other Hakaishin. He gets petty and destroys on a whim, and he has an Angel attendant/advisor. Why isn't there an equivalent Kaioshin-like deity at his level?

I strongly disagree with Zamasu that there should only be one god. That is too much power in the hands of one being. That never works out, ever. In real life or otherwise. Zamasu, if he had his way, would have just been another Zeno, only smarter and more deranged.

Another problem with the hierarchy is the fact that Destroyers tend to be far more physically powerful than Kais, even though they're suppose to have equal (but differentiated) authoritative power. They do on paper, but the difference in physical power clearly disrupts that structure in practice. That's probably a huge factor in what causes the divide in the hierarchy (that and Zeno himself), is that there's an imbalance of powers. A lot of the Kais fear destroyers like Beerus when that shouldn't be the case if both have equal authority.

Having a single monarch at the top does not make it centralized. Feudalism also had a monarch at the top but it certainly wasn't a centralized system. Zeno is effectively a ruler only in name, because he leaves so much freedom to the other deities that they can basically dare to act however they want without having to care about the consequences. That's why universes like the 9 one are so incredibly weak, because the ruling gods do anything but their job.

What Zamasu proposed was a dangerous system, but potentially a more efficient one. If you only have one god who watches over the cosmos, you no longer have to worry about keeping the other deities in check, and at the same time you can more easily take care of the various threats of the cosmos. Whereas now many universes have inefficient gods who fail to get anything done because they are constantly bickering amongst themselves.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Having a single monarch at the top does not make it centralized. Feudalism also had a monarch at the top but it certainly wasn't a centralized system. Zeno is effectively a ruler only in name

Zeno is not, in actuality, a ruler only in name. There are rulers actually like that where the monarch/emperor is only symbolic, and has no administrative power. Zeno has administrative power, he just chooses often not to use it. That's part of the problem.

I feel like we're putting too much blame on the Gods of Destruction and Kais and not on Zeno himself. It's honestly no wonder why the Destoyers seem to not care that much about their jobs. Have you ever had a boss that just doesn't care? It usually results in employees not caring, and understandably so. If I have a boss that doesn't care, then why should I care? Putting in effort would be just a waste of energy.

If the Destroyers and Kais had a respectable ruler, they'd likely take their jobs much more seriously.

What Zamasu proposed was a dangerous system, but potentially a more efficient one.

Zamasu was basically proposing a totalitarian dictatorship. Those never turn out good.

Even feudalistic monarchs are more stable than this, because even though monarchs are at the top, there are still people below them that have administrative power, unlike a totalitarian society. The problem with a monarch is when you have an incompetent monarch (like Zeno). That incompetence will trickle down to the lower levels of administrative power.

If you only have one god who watches over the cosmos, you no longer have to worry about keeping the other deities in check

Part of being a ruler is keeping other people in check. If you can't keep other subordinates with administrative power in check, how are you gonna keep the common people (or in this case, mortals) in check? Oh that's right, Zamasu wanted to simply kill all mortals.

Basically he wanted to be the ruler of nothing. Yeah, I guess you're right. It would be very efficient to be the ruler of nothing. You really wouldn't have to put much effort into anything.

[Hulk10]

I think I can see the point in putting the blame on Zeno.

[Mister_Popo]

I realize that Beerus is probably paranoid that someone will unseat him as Destroyer, but his aversion to having candidates for a successor is frankly harmful to U7.

Yes. Beerus simply is a powerhungry narcissistic being. Even if Whis told there was a stronger God, he would not confirm this as such. I think he wants to remain in charge of things. To all cost. It fits with his character.

[Hulk10]

I realize that Beerus is probably paranoid that someone will unseat him as Destroyer, but his aversion to having candidates for a successor is frankly harmful to U7.

Yes. Beerus simply is a powerhungry narcissistic being. Even if Whis told there was a stronger God, he would not confirm this as such. I think he wants to remain in charge of things. To all cost. It fits with his character.

Your right.

[SupremeKai25]

Having a single monarch at the top does not make it centralized. Feudalism also had a monarch at the top but it certainly wasn't a centralized system. Zeno is effectively a ruler only in name

Zeno is not, in actuality, a ruler only in name. There are rulers actually like that where the monarch/emperor is only symbolic, and has no administrative power. Zeno has administrative power, he just chooses often not to use it. That's part of the problem.

I feel like we're putting too much blame on the Gods of Destruction and Kais and not on Zeno himself. It's honestly no wonder why the Destoyers seem to not care that much about their jobs. Have you ever had a boss that just doesn't care? It usually results in employees not caring, and understandably so. If I have a boss that doesn't care, then why should I care? Putting in effort would be just a waste of energy.

If the Destroyers and Kais had a respectable ruler, they'd likely take their jobs much more seriously.

What Zamasu proposed was a dangerous system, but potentially a more efficient one.

Zamasu was basically proposing a totalitarian dictatorship. Those never turn out good.

Even feudalistic monarchs are more stable than this, because even though monarchs are at the top, there are still people below them that have administrative power, unlike a totalitarian society. The problem with a monarch is when you have an incompetent monarch (like Zeno). That incompetence will trickle down to the lower levels of administrative power.

If you only have one god who watches over the cosmos, you no longer have to worry about keeping the other deities in check

Part of being a ruler is keeping other people in check. If you can't keep other subordinates with administrative power in check, how are you gonna keep the common people (or in this case, mortals) in check? Oh that's right, Zamasu wanted to simply kill all mortals.

Basically he wanted to be the ruler of nothing. Yeah, I guess you're right. It would be very efficient to be the ruler of nothing. You really wouldn't have to put much effort into anything.

I know that Zamasu's idea was radical, but it's his base argument that I agree with. There needs to be strict rules in the cosmos, Zeno should tighten his control over the other gods. That would already be a step in the right direction. Zeno does realize that Beerus and Champa suck at their job (he recognizes this in the Tournament of Destroyers arc), sadly he never actually acts.

We shouldn't blame only the Destroyers, you're right, in fact I have also been very harsh on Zeno. Regardless, the duality of Destroyers and Kais should just be removed. In many cases, they just can't cooperate with each other, they waste time bickering, at which point I think it would be better ot just have one god at the top of every universe who deals both with creation and destruction.

Also, just as a side note, I very much doubt Zamasu would have just ruled over nobody. He probably would have created his own species of mortals which are "perfect" (so completely loyal to him).

[Melee_Sovereign]

Zeno does realize that Beerus and Champa suck at their job (he recognizes this in the Tournament of Destroyers arc), sadly he never actually acts.

Despite his realization, he seems to not care all that much.

We shouldn't blame only the Destroyers, you're right, in fact I have also been very harsh on Zeno. Regardless, the duality of Destroyers and Kais should just be removed. In many cases, they just can't cooperate with each other, they waste time bickering, at which point I think it would be better ot just have one god at the top of every universe who deals both with creation and destruction.

They bicker because of the authority above them doesn't care all that much. Even if there were one god per universe (an idea I strongly disagree with), the cosmos would still be a mess due to Zeno's apathy. At the end of the day, people will not care if their boss doesn't care. And quite frankly, maybe it shouldn't be expected of them to care all that much. These are deities at the end of the day, and not simple monarchs/royalty etc... Regular monarchs look after their kingdom because it's in their best interest to do so. A messy kingdom will negatively effect their personal well-being directly. Not sure we could say this about Zeno or the other deities. I'm not quite sure why they even have a system in place where they need to be concerned with mortals. Managing mortals doesn't appear to give some sort of return that benefits deities on a personal level, the way a regular monarch would. Regular monarchs live in the kindgom they look after. The economics and resources are things they would end up using for themselves directly as a basic necessity. But Zeno? It's not like he's looking after, say, planet Earth, because they provide his supply of food. Regular monarchs need the kingdom they run. But Zeno doesn't need the cosmos.

Maybe apathy and cosmic indifference is just an inevitable quality of DB's divine hierarchy, or really any divine hierarchy. I think Akira Toriyama did this on purpose. I think he wanted to add an element of cosmic indifference to the divine structure of Dragon Ball. It's almost Lovecraftian.

Anyway, the duality of Destroyers and Kais is a sort of separation of powers, which is almost always a good thing in any given hierarchy. The problem does not lie with that, but with Zeno. Additionally, the problem is that there's an imbalance of powers between the duality. Destoyers and Kais are suppose to be equal in authority, but it's not quite like this in practice. Part of it is because Destroys tend to have far more physical power over Kais. If Destroyers and Kais had equal, but differentiated physical power, thing would be far less messy.

It's like, you're a king, you give two people below you equal authority, but one of them has a far superior military, or far more wealth. That's gonna create an imbalance.

Now one could argue that it's necessary for a Destroyer to be as powerful as they are. The narrative clearly suggests this multiple times. A way to balance it out could be to give Kais more authority than Destroyers, or to even have authority over them. We also know Destroyers and Kais have a life-link. Another way to balance the powers is to make it a one-way life-link. That is, if a Kai dies a Destoyer dies. But not vice versa.

Also, just as a side note, I very much doubt Zamasu would have just ruled over nobody. He probably would have created his own species of mortals which are "perfect" (so completely loyal to him).

Sounds very much like a dictatorship.

[Hulk10]

Quite frankly the apathy that these deities show kind of devalues their claims that time is fragile. Though obviously Time Travel isn't wise.

And Zamasu's nihilistic attitude also devalues the ways of the gods in the franchise.