Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[PurestEvil]

I’m gonna be honest; I never realized people thought of Piccolo as black coded until I saw the WTS videos.

I don't think Piccolo Jr is really black coded-judging by his turban I would say he is ME/SA coded-but I do buy the arguments for why he is like a black person

[Jord]

Why do Westerners love to consume Asian media like Dragon Ball but cannot accept the fact that their childhood favorites such as Son Goku and his friends are Asians? It is obviously a huge problem in anime in general and even in Avatar the Last Airbender.

I actually have never read or heard people having a problem with the fact that a Japanese character in a Japanese show is Asian.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Obviously, the idea that Goku can’t be Asian because he’s an alien is silly

It's not silly. It's being literal. Asia only exists on planet Earth, and Goku isn't from Earth.

You can say Saiyans are "based" on Asians, sure. But to say they're literally Asian is categorically wrong.

[WittyUsername]

Obviously, the idea that Goku can’t be Asian because he’s an alien is silly

It's not silly. It's being literal. Asia only exists on planet Earth, and Goku isn't from Earth.

You can say Saiyans are "based" on Asians, sure. But to say they're literally Asian is categorically wrong.

I didn’t mean that Goku is literally of Asian descent. Technically, Asia doesn’t exist in the Dragon Ball world to begin with.

[Melee_Sovereign]

But you just know the same people using the “Not Asian, he’s an alien!” argument would throw a bitch fit if Superman was played by anyone other than a white man. Despite the same principle applying here.

To their defense, due to the art style of comics, it's more obvious with Superman. Dragon Ball's highly stylized art style makes everyone look more racially ambiguous. You really can only tell racial/ethnic derivation from clothing attire, and maybe hair.

On top of that, I would say Saiyans have their own internally consistent set of features (ignoring the outright alien features like having a tail) such as always being described as being very muscular and stocky, and having wildly spiky hair. Kryptonians aren't described in anyway having internally consistent sets of features. You don't hear anything like "green eyes are common among Kryptonians". No. They're perfectly indistinguishable with the entire human species in appearance (e.g. there are Kryptonians that resemble Africans). The only difference being the superpowers.

A Saiyan-like human population could be their own ethnicity. Consistently having wild spikey hair and a stocky muscular build. That's distinct enough to be a distinguished ethnicity without being a different species.

[Jaetinh]

But you just know the same people using the “Not Asian, he’s an alien!” argument would throw a bitch fit if Superman was played by anyone other than a white man. Despite the same principle applying here.

To their defense, due to the art style of comics, it's more obvious with Superman. Dragon Ball's highly stylized art style makes everyone look more racially ambiguous. You really can only tell racial/ethnic derivation from clothing attire, and maybe hair.

On top of that, I would say Saiyans have their own internally consistent set of features (ignoring the outright alien features like having a tail) such as always being described as being very muscular and stocky, and having wildly spiky hair. Kryptonians aren't described in anyway having internally consistent sets of features. You don't hear anything like "green eyes are common among Kryptonians". No. They're perfectly indistinguishable with the entire human species in appearance (e.g. there are Kryptonians that resemble Africans). The only difference being the superpowers.

A Saiyan-like human population could be their own ethnicity. Consistently having wild spikey hair and a stocky muscular build. That's distinct enough to be a distinguished ethnicity without being a different species.

The only thing that makes them different in terms of appearance is their tail and always having spiky hair. They aren't born stocky and muscular. It's not a predefined thing that Saiyans are muscular and big. If they get huge and ripped, it's as a result of their training and fights. Look at how skinny Cabba and Tarble are. Who described them as always being very muscular and stocky? Saiyans are in terms of skin, hair and eye color described exactly like East/SE Asians. They're just an extension of Goku's looks. Son Goku wasn't black, white, middle eastern or latino during the first 16 volumes of Dragon Ball. He was obviously Asian. Why should the Saiyans be any different? If Saiyans were to be accurately casted as a race in live action, what would you choose?

[MasenkoHA]

But you just know the same people using the “Not Asian, he’s an alien!” argument would throw a bitch fit if Superman was played by anyone other than a white man. Despite the same principle applying here.

To their defense, due to the art style of comics, it's more obvious with Superman. Dragon Ball's highly stylized art style makes everyone look more racially ambiguous. You really can only tell racial/ethnic derivation from clothing attire, and maybe hair.

On top of that, I would say Saiyans have their own internally consistent set of features (ignoring the outright alien features like having a tail) such as always being described as being very muscular and stocky, and having wildly spiky hair. Kryptonians aren't described in anyway having internally consistent sets of features. You don't hear anything like "green eyes are common among Kryptonians". No. They're perfectly indistinguishable with the entire human species in appearance (e.g. there are Kryptonians that resemble Africans). The only difference being the superpowers.

A Saiyan-like human population could be their own ethnicity. Consistently having wild spikey hair and a stocky muscular build. That's distinct enough to be a distinguished ethnicity without being a different species.

Aside from the monkey tail Goku has no problem blending in with humans. The hair is just standard manga stuff and plenty of Saiyans don’t have spiky hair.

As stated before we’ve seen none muscular Saiyans (Cabba, Kale, Table, and Kefla) muscles is just to denote = strong bulky fighters not a species wide trait

There’s no reason to believe Goku isn’t suppose to resemble an East Asian man just as Superman resembles a caucasian man.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Aside from the monkey tail Goku has no problem blending in with humans. The hair is just standard manga stuff and plenty of Saiyans don’t have spiky hair.

My point wasn't that they can't blend with humans. My point is the saiyans have distinct ethnic traits the same way a distinct ethnic group of humans would.

And there's a difference between a predominate trait and a ubiquitous trait. Wildly spiky hair is clearly a predominate saiyan trait (very common) but it's not ubiquitous (present in every single saiyan).

It's like how some Africans can have light skin, or some Europeans can have blonde hair.

As stated before we’ve seen none muscular Saiyans (Cabba, Kale, Table, and Kefla) muscles is just to denote = strong bulky fighters not a species wide trait

Again, predominate trait, not ubiquitous trait. Doesn't change my point.

Saiyans are clearly more predisposed to be muscular. It doesn't mean you can't have non-muscular saiyans.

Also, Universe 6 Saiyans are clearly different themselves. They even lost their tail in their evolutionary history. They can be seen as a different ethnic Saiyan group from Universe 7 Saiyans.

There’s no reason to believe Goku isn’t suppose to resemble an East Asian man just as Superman resembles a caucasian man.

There's a few reasons. 1. He's an alien. 2. They have distinct established predominate traits. 3. And this is a personal opinion, but Saiyans like Nappa look Caucasian, straight up.

Again, Superman, due to the art style of comics, is far less ambiguous and stylized.

[Melee_Sovereign]

The only thing that makes them different in terms of appearance is their tail and always having spiky hair. They aren't born stocky and muscular.

Their hair is not just spiky. It's wildly spiky. And they're clearly more predisposed to become muscular. It's not ubiquitous, but it's clearly a genetic predisposition.

Saiyans are in terms of skin, hair and eye color described exactly like East/SE Asians.

Light skin is not exclusive to Asians, and it's also not a ubiquitous trait of Asians. Dark hair is not exclusive to Asians. And dark brown eyes are the most common eye color in the human species, by far.

They're just an extension of Goku's looks.

Goku looks like a cartoon character. His appearance is highly stylized. His racial look is too ambiguous.

If Saiyans were to be accurately casted as a race in live action, what would you choose?

God, our culture today thinks about people in terms of race way too much. It's actually obnoxious.

I would by and large look for anyone who's relatively tan and muscular (with some exception), and either has naturally spiky hair, or make their hair spiky with a hair stylist. Although I probably wouldn't do a live action in the first place.

[jjgp1112]

Our culture has been making things way too much about race for centuries, it's just that now the people who were on the short end of the stick have a bigger say in things.

[Jaetinh]

The only thing that makes them different in terms of appearance is their tail and always having spiky hair. They aren't born stocky and muscular.

Their hair is not just spiky. It's wildly spiky. And they're clearly more predisposed to become muscular. It's not ubiquitous, but it's clearly a genetic predisposition.

Saiyans are in terms of skin, hair and eye color described exactly like East/SE Asians.

Light skin is not exclusive to Asians, and it's also not a ubiquitous trait of Asians. Dark hair is not exclusive to Asians. And dark brown eyes are the most common eye color in the human species, by far.

They're just an extension of Goku's looks.

Goku looks like a cartoon character. His appearance is highly stylized. His racial look is too ambiguous.

If Saiyans were to be accurately casted as a race in live action, what would you choose?

God, our culture today thinks about people in terms of race way too much. It's actually obnoxious.

I would by and large look for anyone who's relatively tan and muscular (with some exception), and either has naturally spiky hair, or make their hair spiky with a hair stylist. Although I probably wouldn't do a live action in the first place.

You're actually telling me that despite of how much Son Goku is influenced by East Asian culture that he wasn't drawn and written to be an Asian character? Toriyama just decided to make everything about him East Asian inspired except for his race? It's literally there despite how much you want to deny it. You didn't answer the question. You had to choose a race. The facts are there. Saiyans are described as people with yellow skin, black hair and black eyes. There's no other race in the world other than Asians that are described as yellow people. I'll repeat myself because it's clear as day. Son Goku was an Asian human boy and the Saiyans are an extension of his looks and thereby obviously his race. If Kryptonians are white and black people, the Saiyans are Asians. If Kryptonians are based on white and black people, Saiyans are based on Asians. Anime characters in terms of looks will almost never look as realistic as comic book characters, doesn't mean you can't tell what race the character's supposed to be.

[jjgp1112]

Like I said on the first page, Goku was clearly envisioned as a Jackie Chan clone and based on one of the protagonist of an East Asian folktale - and then the entire Saiyan Race was extrapolated from those Monkey King traits. Safe to say Asian is the most apt depiction. Or even like, polynesian, since those are some strong, tribal motherfuckers with Asian roots.

[Kid Buu]

Even without the alien aspect, I always thought the human characters were based on Asians - Yamcha, Krilin, Tenshinhan, Chi-Chi etc.

Bulma seems to be the one exception. I'd guess she's white.

if you want to include India (South Asia) then I'd defintely say Namu and Uub are based on Indians.

[goku the krump dancer]

Like I said on the first page, Goku was clearly envisioned as a Jackie Chan clone and based on one of the protagonist of an East Asian folktale - and then the entire Saiyan Race was extrapolated from those Monkey King traits. Safe to say Asian is the most apt depiction. Or even like, polynesian, since those are some strong, tribal motherfuckers with Asian roots.

Probably explains why their sauce at Chic Fil-A is so damn good.

[The Time Traveller]

I actually drew Vegeta as White and Goku as Asian, it makes sense if Toriyama says Saiyans look Asian but it'd probably be this way in a live action movie?

[WittyUsername]

It seems fair to assume that the Saiyans are supposed to be seen as one racial group (although a few of them do look somewhat tanned, such as Paragus and Kale), and since Goku is seen as Asian, by extension, that would make the rest of the Saiyans Asian as well. Personally, I don’t get why Toriyama decided that all full-blooded Saiyans need to have black hair, but that’s what he decided upon.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It seems fair to assume that the Saiyans are supposed to be seen as one racial group (although a few of them do look somewhat tanned, such as Paragus and Kale), and since Goku is seen as Asian, by extension, that would make the rest of the Saiyans Asian as well. Personally, I don’t get why Toriyama decided that all full-blooded Saiyans need to have black hair, but that’s what he decided upon.

Maybe because it would get confusing with the transformations if they started out with yellow, red, blue, or white. Imagine a naturally blonde Saiyan going SSJ.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Toriyama just decided to make everything about him East Asian inspired except for his race?

As far as we can tell, yes. Because he's an alien. You understand that an alien can crash-land anywhere on Earth?

You didn't answer the question. You had to choose a race.

No I don't have to choose a race, nor would I. And that is the answer to the question.

The facts are there. Saiyans are described as people with yellow skin, black hair and black eyes.

When have Saiyans ever been described as having yellow skin? And for that matter, why are Asians even described as having yellow skin? That description of Asians is beyond me.

If Kryptonians are white and black people, the Saiyans are Asians. If Kryptonians are based on white and black people, Saiyans are based on Asians.

Kryptonians aren't based on any particular race of humans. They're just based on humans.

And let's make something clear about Superman. Literally the only reason we can say he looks white is because of the art style of comics. Very realistically drawn faces, proportion-wise in western comics. That's the only reason. It's not because Superman is made by an American company, or happened to crash-land in America in his story, or because he took on American culture, or wears American clothing. It's solely because of the art style of comics.

You can't make the same point with Goku and Dragon Ball because Dragon Ball is drawn in a highly stylized way.

[Soppa Saia People]

i mean it's not yellow obv, but goku, and by extension, the rest of his fictional species that is based on him, have always had a pretty tan skin tone.

Spoiler:

but honestly this is just such a silly semantics thing to me. is goku literally asian ? no because he's not real and asia afaik doesn't exist in dragon balls world. but for all intents and purposes, he's supposed to be asian, he's literally based on a journey to the west character.

[kemuri07]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

I've absolutely heard this argument. People are convinced that certain anime characters are "white" because they don't feature specific Asian features. Never mind that the origins of DB is asian, and that its world has always been based on Chinese/Japanese mythology.


Reminds me of a line from an essay I once read about this very issue: "Even when it's fake, we want it white."