GT had a good conclusion for Goku

[MasenkoHA]

It's an open ending, but still and ending. What at the end of Super was left unresolved?

The Moro arc and Granolah arc?

As I said, Super is an ongoing story. I have no clue why people in this thread are acting like it's over.

Because its been 3 years since the last episode and episode 131 does indeed function as a finale.

[ABED]

It's an open ending, but still and ending. What at the end of Super was left unresolved?

The Moro arc and Granolah arc?

As I said, Super is an ongoing story. I have no clue why people in this thread are acting like it's over.

Because its been 3 years since the last episode and episode 131 does indeed function as a finale.

This plus I said it was an open ending. There being subsequent adventures qualifies it as an open ending. The two arcs you named aren't necessary to conclude any of the main threads at the end of Super.

[Matches Malone]

You can't compare anything to Super's ending right now because Super doesn't have an ending.

We'll never be able to, as Super and DB as a whole will be milked until they don't make money anymore. The chances of DB getting a definitive ending like it did back in the 90s are slim to none.

[Yosheets]

GT had the best ending in the franchise, period. Whether you hate GT or not, I think this isn't even debatable.

I’m debating it. I like the ending of Z/the original manga better as its a full circle situation for Goku.


I do think GT’s ending is a good ending especially for fans who prefer heroic Goku. I’d place it high above Super’s saccharine shonen cliche ending. And if we’re counting the original Dragon Ball’s wedding filler arc as its finale I prefer it over thar as well.

The Original Manga's ending is better than some fans think it is. In the beginning, Goku starts off with his Grandfather Gohan dead, then he meets Bulma, then Oolong, then Yamcha and Puar, and in the end, has a full circle of family and friends, like you said. He also goes from the student of Roshi, Korin, Kami, and King Kai, to the master of Oob.

But GT's ending is good not only for focusing on Goku as a hero, but also because it provides a proper ending for what the series is named after, the Dragon Balls, which became nothing more than a plot device in the Cell and Boo Arcs.

Super's ending is garbage. I despise that Freeza became a Z Fighter and fought alongside Goku against Jiren.

[Jord]

GT had the best ending in the franchise, period. Whether you hate GT or not, I think this isn't even debatable.

I’m debating it. I like the ending of Z/the original manga better as its a full circle situation for Goku.


I do think GT’s ending is a good ending especially for fans who prefer heroic Goku. I’d place it high above Super’s saccharine shonen cliche ending. And if we’re counting the original Dragon Ball’s wedding filler arc as its finale I prefer it over thar as well.

The Original Manga's ending is better than some fans think it is. In the beginning, Goku starts off with his Grandfather Gohan dead, then he meets Bulma, then Oolong, then Yamcha and Puar, and in the end, has a full circle of family and friends, like you said. He also goes from the student of Roshi, Korin, Kami, and King Kai, to the master of Oob.

But GT's ending is good not only for focusing on Goku as a hero, but also because it provides a proper ending for what the series is named after, the Dragon Balls, which became nothing more than a plot device in the Cell and Boo Arcs.

Super's ending is garbage. I despise that Freeza became a Z Fighter and fought alongside Goku against Jiren.

I agree. Z's and GT's have both nice endings but with completely different flavors. I prefer GT's ending since the montage also really wraps up the trilogy in a nice way. It felt more definitive, and in a way it was.
I wonder if Toriyama altered some original plans for an ending due to the impending arrival of GT.

Super's ending is not only garbage, it also feels really off when you put it in the proper timeline since the "next episode" in the series is one of the final episodes of Z, the one with the timeskip. In Z this was sudden but the peaceful episodes before it made the transition to the characters not seeing each other for a few years seem more logical. There weren't any battles, they didn't need each other and both Goku and Vegeta aren't the social types. When you look at Super's anime ending and then watch the following Z episode, there's a huge disconnect.

[ABED]

Super's ending is garbage. I despise that Freeza became a Z Fighter and fought alongside Goku against Jiren.

Um, he's not. They worked together to survive. They aren't friends and as we see in Broly, he's still out to kill Goku.

[MasenkoHA]

When you look at Super's anime ending and then watch the following Z episode, there's a huge disconnect.

There’s a 3-4 year gap in-universe between Super’s finale and the last 3 episodes of Z.


I don’t care much for Super’s finale but watching Super before the last 3 episodes of Z just because of chronological placement isn’t necessary nor was it the intent. That’s like watching the Bardock tv special before the original Dragon Ball.

[ABED]

What's everyone's issue with Super's ending?

[sunsetshimmer]

It's a good conclusion, yes. Though a bit too much "mystery" surrounding it for me to accept it. It left a lot of questions still unanswered until this day.

Doesn't that actually make it so good and memorable? We had 25th anniversary of GT recently and people still talk about that ending after so many years, still coming with their own theories.

Now, regarding DBS ending not being an ending:

Nothing ever suggested DBS anime is going to return and DBS manga was always a side product, not otherwise, even though i wish it was otherwise. The main DBS product, which is anime, ended at this moment. It might come back, but it might not, so for now we can call it an ending.

Just a small reminder, last episode of DBS is called almost the same last episode of GT was, with both having specific line:
Farewell, Goku! Until We Meet Again!

And "Until we meet again" doesn't have to mean it will happen, because GT even had definitive THE END phrase displayed suggesting it won't come back (not as GT sequel at least). Just because Goku at the end of Super didn't leave everyone like in Z or GT doesn't mean it's not an ending.

[LoganForkHands73]

I think a natural advantage GT's ending has over many others is that it was so deliberately planned. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the crew have a decent idea of how the series of end very early on? Although the exact details undoubtedly ended up playing out significantly different as production went on, they likely knew going in that they were going to have to make a punctual, sentimental send-off for Son Goku. Other endings we've had have tended to come off as more spontaneous, usually with "wiggle room" for further imaginary adventures.

There's a lot to unpack with GT's ending so I'd rather bulletpoint my thoughts on it.

• Goku becoming one with Shenron feels like a poetic, circular send-off both for the entire story of Dragon Ball. The series is literally called Dragon Ball, not Goku's Big Adventure, so it only feels right to acknowledge the orbs' sheer importance to the narrative and to Goku's journey throughout every iteration. It helps that GT perhaps features the Dragon Balls more prominently than any other era.

• Goku's final farewells to his friends are succinct yet poignant. The fact that he makes a pointed effort to say goodbyes to Piccolo, Krillin and Kame-Sen'nin, the three most influential characters who couldn't be there with Goku during his final battle with Yi Shenron, is awesome. Especially the trip to Kame House, where Goku and Krillin both get to reflect on how their lives ended up at this point. Also, as a nice touch, Piccolo is seen fighting a monster from Toriyama's concept art for GT which went unused for the rest of the series. It's kinda sad that Yamcha doesn't get anything, he's last seen in the desert with Puar, essentially back at square one, but not everyone can get a happy ending.

• A massive problem with the original manga's ending is how damn lukewarm it is -- Goku says the briefest, most thoughtless goodbyes to all his best friends and family, and immediately flies off to train a boy (a very strong boy) he's just met, implying that he's never going to see any of them again. That, combined with the interval long time skip ("Five years" they said, pfft), creates a sense that Goku genuinely doesn't care about anyone. As much as I enjoy Goku's reckless, selfish and 'poisonous' ways in other contexts, I don't feel it's in-character for him to be that cold to the people he ostensibly cares about*. In any case, ending the entire story on that rushed note is seriously bitter and unsatisfying. Goku's fight against Uub isn't even that satisfying. Toriyama clearly just wanted to get the thing over and done with. The Z anime definitely improves on it by giving Goku and Uub more chemistry and giving more breathing room for the goodbyes. GT's ending may be saccharine and sentimental, but it feels slightly more organic while still retaining some sense of bitter-sweetness and tragedy, as many good endings tend to.

• In the far flung future, it's nice to see Goku's achievements finally get recognised by the public long after his "death". Fame and recognition were never his objectives in life, 'cause Goku's a humble dude like that, but it's only natural that his many heroic feats leave a huge mark on history like any martial arts legend.

• Another giant Genki Dama climax may not be the most original, but the clear symbolism of Goku utilising the power of everyone he's met and touched throughout all his adventures still hits hard, especially since we see members of every single wacky alien group encountered in GT contribute as well. The fact that the Earthlings give away their energy willingly this time is also a nice bit of development. I love that Yi Shenron can't even resist this Genki Dama, he just gets atomized on contact.

• Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku and all its arrangements are best utilised here.

• Goku Jr. vs. Vegeta Jr. was waaay too on-the-nose, I'll say that against it.

*EDIT: Yeah, Goku has flown off without his friends plenty of times before, I'll admit. It's not exactly out-of-character by any stretch but it still doesn't sit right... I just end up feeling bad for all the other characters we've come to love.

[WittyUsername]

The problem with the manga’s ending is that it’s somewhat random and doesn’t necessarily feel like a definitive ending. We as an audience have no attachment to Oob as a character, so seeing Goku fly off to train him doesn’t exactly feel like closure for the story. The ending of GT is much more grandiose and makes it feel like everything has come full circle at that point, on top of having some emotional resonance behind it for fans.

Still, as I said earlier, I don’t dislike the manga ending. I used to not like it, but I’ve come to accept that it’s much more fitting to Toriyama’s style than the one in GT.

[ABED]

It's not random and the emotion isn't centered on Uub. He's just the McGuffin in effect. The real story is about Goku being excited that there are more mountains to climb. For a character who is constantly trying to reach great heights, what better conclusion is there than there being the promise of more. Open endings are just as definitive as closed endings. It all depends on elements like theme and story. For a character who doesn't seem to have a peak, what's a more fitting ending than "the road goes ever on..."?

[WittyUsername]

It's not random and the emotion isn't centered on Uub. He's just the McGuffin in effect. The real story is about Goku being excited that there are more mountains to climb. For a character who is constantly trying to reach great heights, what better conclusion is there than there being the promise of more. Open endings are just as definitive as closed endings. It all depends on elements like theme and story. For a character who doesn't seem to have a peak, what's a more fitting ending than "the road goes ever on..."?

Him leaving behind his friends and family to train Oob is the part that feels random. That aside though, I do understand the overall idea of the ending, which is why I’ve warmed up to it overtime. Unfortunately, Super cheapens it retroactively.

[MasenkoHA]

I

Him leaving behind his friends and family to train Oob is the part that feels random.

This is the guy that decided to stay in outer space to train instead of being wished back to his friends and family. So no not really.

. Unfortunately, Super cheapens it retroactively.

How?

[ABED]

It's not random and the emotion isn't centered on Uub. He's just the McGuffin in effect. The real story is about Goku being excited that there are more mountains to climb. For a character who is constantly trying to reach great heights, what better conclusion is there than there being the promise of more. Open endings are just as definitive as closed endings. It all depends on elements like theme and story. For a character who doesn't seem to have a peak, what's a more fitting ending than "the road goes ever on..."?

Him leaving behind his friends and family to train Oob is the part that feels random. That aside though, I do understand the overall idea of the ending, which is why I’ve warmed up to it overtime. Unfortunately, Super cheapens it retroactively.

How does it feel random for Goku to leave his family? It's not even like he was gonna do it permanently. I'm still confused how "random" applies here.

[WittyUsername]

How?

When the epilogue was written in the manga, the idea was that the 10 years following Boo’s defeat had been uneventful for Goku and friends, and that Boo was the most powerful opponent he ever faced, which was why he was so excited about the prospect of fighting Oob. That’s no longer the case anymore.

How does it feel random for Goku to leave his family? It's not even like he was gonna do it permanently. I'm still confused how "random" applies here.

I don’t know how I can make it anymore straightforward. It just comes out of nowhere. Why does Goku need to leave for an extended period of time to train Oob? That’s not that important, though. I already said that I’m fine with the manga’s ending. My comment about it being “random” was just a nitpick.

[ABED]

How?

When the epilogue was written in the manga, the idea was that the 10 years following Boo’s defeat had been uneventful for Goku and friends, and that Boo was the most powerful opponent he ever faced, which was why he was so excited about the prospect of fighting Oob. That’s no longer the case anymore.

This is something I very much agree with. Uub no longer carries the same meaning as before, no matter how much the lore bends over backwards to justify it still making sense, like dropping the nugget that Kid Buu had god ki.

I don’t know how I can make it anymore straightforward. It just comes out of nowhere. Why does Goku need to leave for an extended period of time to train Oob?

You could explain why you think it comes out of nowhere. You haven't explained what you mean. You've just restated what you wrote. He didn't need to leave. He left because he wanted to. He wants to train the reincarnation of the strongest fighter he had ever faced. Is this really out of character? Goku could've been brought back after Cell's defeat, but he chose to stay in the afterlife to meet strong fighters. Being a magnet for trouble was a rationalization. His true goal was to meet and fight the strongest.

Is it out of character? Does it not follow from the story that Goku would want to train the reincarnation of the strongest fighter he'd ever faced?

[WittyUsername]

You could explain why you think it comes out of nowhere. You haven't explained what you mean. You've just restated what you wrote. He didn't need to leave. He left because he wanted to. He wants to train the reincarnation of the strongest fighter he had ever faced. Is this really out of character? Goku could've been brought back after Cell's defeat, but he chose to stay in the afterlife to meet strong fighters. Being a magnet for trouble was a rationalization. His true goal was to meet and fight the strongest.

The difference between the ending of the Cell saga and the ending of the manga is that in the former, Goku deciding to stay dead was a decision Toriyama made so that Gohan could become the new main character. It was a passing of the torch moment that Toriyama quickly backtracked on. With the end of the manga though, it seems to happen just because. As I already said however, it’s a nitpick. It doesn’t ruin the ending for me. I still get the point of the ending. It’s an “and the adventure continues” kind of ending, which is appropriate for Toriyama.

[Grimlock]

Doesn't that actually make it so good and memorable? We had 25th anniversary of GT recently and people still talk about that ending after so many years, still coming with their own theories.

Memorable? Yeah, maybe. For its very enigmatic ending. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing, though. Not for me, at least. But like I said, now that we have Xeno Goku (and I imagine he's what happens to Goku post-GT), my issues with the Dragon Ball GT finale faded away. But before it, that is not really the type of ending I enjoy.

I'm not one to keep coming up with theories and such, I'd like a more direct/decisive approach, if possible.

[Civic]

I hated the GT ending. Shenron leaving is a cool idea considering the dragon balls misuse, but why does Goku go? Because Shenron asked him to, and gave him no indication why or where they were going? It seems so forced and random, I can't see why Goku would choose to leave. Then there's the whole dragon balls being absorbed into him. What is Goku after that? Where does he fade out to? It raises so many questions out of nowhere and does nothing to address any of them.

At least Zs ending made sense to Gokus character even if it wasn't a satisfying ending.