Can DB Ever Move Past Goku?

[MasenkoHA]

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

[ABED]

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

Thank you. Dragon Ball is the title but it's about him.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

When they actually do it once.

[ABED]

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

When they actually do it once.

They did with Gohan and it didn't work.

[emperior]

Dragon Balls not a story about Dragon Balls and martial artists. It's a story about Goku, and everything else is just there for the ride.

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

Thank you. Dragon Ball is the title but it's about him.

I agree with these takes, though Naruto too was the story of Naruto and then they switched to Boruto (but in my opinion as a reader of the manga, Naruto’s presence overshadows that of his son every time they are together, as he’s much more interesting and like-able).

The question is: could DB pull it off? It could in theory, but why should it?
Goku is still an enjoyable character, I don’t think the story could work well by removing him, And no, he cannot be sidelined. Remember when Toriyama did in the Buu arc? As soon as he was brought back in the story, like it or not, his presence was so strong that he became the focus once again, beginning from his first encounter with Shin. Heck, even the final battle with Cell is still pretty much Goku focused, even though it’s Gohan who finishes off Cell the role of protagonist at that point still belongs to Goku. Gohan was effectively the protagonist only from Goku’s decision to stay dead until Goku decided to come back to Earth for one day.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Toriyama did briefly try that with Gohan more or less taking over in defeating Cell after Goku's sacrificing himself, the second opening and closing "We Gotta Power" and "We Were Angels" for ep 200 onward reflect this direction (Funny enough, they used them all the way to the end of Z even well after the focus on Gohan was all but gone) though of course as we know changed his mind soon after when realizing that he just wouldn't be able to work as the main character. You can tell he tried to make it work, but shortly into the Buu arc it all pretty much entirely collapsed and thus the revival of Goku first temporarily then permanently.

[Banduck]

They did with Gohan and it didn't work.

It didn't work for Toriyama, for me it worked very well.
And I hate that Gohan didn't remain the main character.

[ABED]

They did with Gohan and it didn't work.

It didn't work for Toriyama, for me it worked very well.
And I hate that Gohan didn't remain the main character.

I don't, he's way too passive to be a main character, but especially for this story.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

The real question is will the fandom ever move on from asking this question every other week?

When they actually do it once.

They did with Gohan and it didn't work.

[citation needed]

[ABED]

Not sure if that comment is meant in jest or not. And while you are by no means obligated to agree, Toriyama came to find Gohan wasn't a good protagonist.

Story-wise, I don't think Gohan is a good protagonist. He's way too passive for the protagonist.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

I'm asking you to show facts regarding Toriyama's views there. Cause last I saw of his articles all it really said was that he couldn't beat Buu cause he is a nice school boy now.

[jjgp1112]

I'm asking you to show facts regarding Toriyama's views there. Cause last I saw of his articles all it really said was that he couldn't beat Buu cause he is a nice school boy now.

He said in Daizenshuu 2 that he wanted Gohan to be the hero but ultimately felt he wasn't suited for the role

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

[citation needed]

The very fact that he changed back to Goku in the story instead of keeping Gohan to the very end is the evidence.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

I'm asking you to show facts regarding Toriyama's views there. Cause last I saw of his articles all it really said was that he couldn't beat Buu cause he is a nice school boy now.

He said in Daizenshuu 2 that he wanted Gohan to be the hero but ultimately felt he wasn't suited for the role

And this was his reason:

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... b-version/

Speaking of children, I’m sure when Toyotarō-sensei was a child he avidly read Toriyama-sensei‘s manga right as it came out. Is any part a particular favorite of yours?
Toyotarō:
I really like the very start of the Majin Boo arc, when Gohan is attending Orange Star High School. I guess because it was so laid back.
Toriyama:
Yeah! I really liked that part too… (laughs)

Toyotarō:
Had you already come up with Majin Boo when you were drawing that part?

Toriyama:
… Nope (laughs). I’m pretty sure I just kept on drawing without a clue Majin Boo was going to turn up. I enjoyed working on that part, but eventually I figured it was time to come up with a new enemy… Even though I would have liked to just go on with the “slice of life” stuff… (laughs)

^ Starts writing whatever he wants cause he's essentially bored of what the series became at this point since he'd have preferred to keep writing Slice of Life content.

At the time Son Gohan was turning into the main character, wasn’t he?
Toriyama:
Yeah! I figured Goku was getting old, and it was time to switch over to the next generation.
Toyotarō:
That’s what Goku himself said in the Majin Boo arc.

Toriyama:
But drawing Gohan’s daily life made me gradually realize he likes studying more than fighting (laughs). Later on he even lost his dōgi (laughs).

Toyotarō:
Now he’s fulfilled his childhood dream and become a fine scholar.

Then Gohan suffers from being written into his own hole by the author himself despite wasted some chapters having him train just to lose. It's not about him being unfit for the role in the way people are saying here.

[ABED]

Regardless of his reasons, Gohan isn't good in the lead as he doesn't lead, he's lead around. That's a death sentence for a main character.

The slice of life stuff gets boring after a while. There's no conflict, no stakes, and the shtick wore thin.

Cause last I saw of his articles all it really said was that he couldn't beat Buu cause he is a nice school boy now.

Also, I think he's being facetious. Of course Gohan can beat Buu. He's the writer and if he writes that he can defeat Buu, Gohan can defeat Buu.

[KBABZ]

Given that Toriyama was most likely tired of writing Dragon Ball by that point I'm not surprised he gave up on Gohan being the protagonist.

[PurestEvil]

Goku's story would have to be concluded for that to happen. Even then, I doubt that a mainline DB series would hold up that well, it may have to be spinoffs from there.
Then again, I could be wrong.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

Regardless of his reasons, Gohan isn't good in the lead as he doesn't lead, he's lead around. That's a death sentence for a main character.

If anything, Dragon Ball is held back by Goku's character philosophy. We have this imaginative world and we have characters that could be expressed in different and unique ways for the series or new perspectives, but cant cause we are stuck in Budokai mode with Goku.

Some of the best written parts for the series is when Goku is not the focus. He's not like Luffy where he is emotionally intelligent. So even if you want to pull 'Goku's naive/stupid' card or whatever with the character design, there's just no layers there for much to work with that we haven't seen before.

Goku is a design that has really started to show it's age the more the series has gone and as long as he's the lead Dragon Ball will never be able to become something more than what it was.

[jjgp1112]

Regardless of his reasons, Gohan isn't good in the lead as he doesn't lead, he's lead around. That's a death sentence for a main character.

If anything, Dragon Ball is held back by Goku's character philosophy. We have this imaginative world and we have characters that could be expressed in different and unique ways for the series or new perspectives, but cant cause we are stuck in Budokai mode with Goku.

Some of the best written parts for the series is when Goku is not the focus. He's not like Luffy where he is emotionally intelligent. So even if you want to pull 'Goku's naive/stupid' card or whatever with the character design, there's just no layers there for much to work with that we haven't seen before.

Goku is a design that has really started to show it's age the more the series has gone and as long as he's the lead Dragon Ball will never be able to become something more than what it was.

Does Dragon Ball really need to be more than it is?

[Shaddy]

What it is is kind of lame, right now at least.

For a series that was ostensibly over for twenty years, if Dragon Ball is going to be back, it should be experimenting. Doing stories focused on things other than Goku is one of many possible experiments that totally could pay off if you had the right approach (though personally, I'd want to see different approaches taken to handling the core battles of the series, though obviously you can do both). This is what popular franchise revivals should be for. If I just wanted to see stuff Dragon Ball has already done, I'd go watch the things it already did.