Do you prefer the idea Saiyans are pure evil or generally redeemable?

[fleahop]

People forget Vegeta was an exceptional bastard by Saiyan standards so they shouldn't use him as an average.

Sure. But Vegeta was the stronger being on earth for quite some time and could have conquered it without much actual opposition. But that was probably the furthest thing from his mind.

Not to de-rail this, but I can't remember a time during Z where Vegeta was the strongest being on Earth.

More on-topic, I prefer Episode of Bardock's view of Saiyan culture. It's probably mostly nostalgia, but they made sense in Frieza's army as one-trick ponies. Very useful warriors with a cool transformation trick that are totally reliant on outside resources. Their situation and how they acted in that OVA told more about their story as a race than much of the dialogue in the newer material. Additionally, they were portrayed as "human" creatures in a situation they had little control over. Just sheep. It felt more realistic to me.

[miguelnuva1]

People forget Vegeta was an exceptional bastard by Saiyan standards so they shouldn't use him as an average.

Sure. But Vegeta was the stronger being on earth for quite some time and could have conquered it without much actual opposition. But that was probably the furthest thing from his mind.

Not to de-rail this, but I can't remember a time during Z where Vegeta was the strongest being on Earth.

More on-topic, I prefer Episode of Bardock's view of Saiyan culture. It's probably mostly nostalgia, but they made sense in Frieza's army as one-trick ponies. Very useful warriors with a cool transformation trick that are totally reliant on outside resources. Their situation and how they acted in that OVA told more about their story as a race than much of the dialogue in the newer material. Additionally, they were portrayed as "human" creatures in a situation they had little control over. Just sheep. It felt more realistic to me.

1. After the Frieza saga for a little while.

2. Sometime close to the Buu saga.

[BWri]

People forget Vegeta was an exceptional bastard by Saiyan standards so they shouldn't use him as an average.

Was he?

I guess my mind is particularly clouded by the Toei Saiyans. Him murdering Nappa because he was injured was pretty brutal but I always looked at that as an act that other prideful Saiyans would also resort to in that situation. Nappa did seem surprised when it happened so perhaps it wasn't the norm.

[jjgp1112]

People forget Vegeta was an exceptional bastard by Saiyan standards so they shouldn't use him as an average.

Was he?

I guess my mind is particularly clouded by the Toei Saiyans. Him murdering Nappa because he was injured was pretty brutal but I always looked at that as an act that other prideful Saiyans would also resort to in that situation. Nappa did seem surprised when it happened so perhaps it wasn't the norm.

He was also caught off guard by Vegeta declining to revive Raditz and killing the Saibaiman

[DiloVortexx]

honestly, i like redeemable saiyans! the idea of most saiyans being aggressive dudes who like to mess shit up but theres also a few of them out there who sure, they still have those saiyan instincts but they're less about getting into really bad business just for a good fight and they're possible to be changed is nice

idk thats just my perspective tho since i like both canon portrayals of bardock oh the horror.. (the one where hes a ruthless killer who really only starts questioning everything after the visit to kanassa and then the db minus sorta bardock where he still has those tendencies but he can be gentle to some of those around him like gine and all that.. i feel like having a mix of both versions of him is a good mixture!)

i do love me some saiyans who are big assholes on main sure bc omg yea its hella fun to watch them do their thing and fuck shit up but having some saiyans who arent just all about conquering worlds for once is fun too.. i'm certain this is a rather unpopular opinion in the fandom bc i have seen.. many ppl who Do Not have this viewpoint but yknow.. this is what happens when i like species/races in fiction that are lot more morally grey where they can do both good and bad things (and seeing that being applied to saiyans too makes me rly happy??? idk how else to describe my feeling abt that but yea saiyans who do good and evil things cool.. ty monster alien based vocaloid series for making me feel this way lmao)

can agree with others in the thread that i believe saiyans arent completely pure evil at heart and would be morally grey but their culture at this point does revolve lots around violence that thats somewhat ingrained in them yknow.. them being recruited into freezas organization didnt really help with those tendencies either lets be real
so yes i feel meh abt the "oh saiyans are completely pure evil" kinda thing and i think of them more as a species who was more in the middle morally but over time they delved into not great activities to help satisfy their egos and instincts and then well king cold and freeza happened

[WittyUsername]

People forget Vegeta was an exceptional bastard by Saiyan standards so they shouldn't use him as an average.

Was he?

I guess my mind is particularly clouded by the Toei Saiyans. Him murdering Nappa because he was injured was pretty brutal but I always looked at that as an act that other prideful Saiyans would also resort to in that situation. Nappa did seem surprised when it happened so perhaps it wasn't the norm.

He was also caught off guard by Vegeta declining to revive Raditz and killing the Saibaiman

In terms of more recent material, there’s also Broly, where he and those two other Saiyans were surprised about Vegeta’s indifference to the death of his family.

[GokuHater]

No. Sayians are not pure evil and it isn't even a speculation but a fact from the original story with arguments that you yourself gave in the topic
If a handful of Sayians can go good, regardless of the reason, proves there are not born to be evil.

In real life there is arguably no such thing as 100% evil just for the sake of evil and DB does seem to go alongside that unless the villain is some sort of magic monster (Boo, Moro) or a built Android (Cell).

The reason for Sayians being as barbaric as they were is I believe due to the fact of their culture, upbringing etc
DB is not psychologically heavy but in real life a child having a childhood in Saiyan's system would make a very disturbed and dangerous individual.
Case in point we DO HAVE our real life "Saiyan" groups on Earth (take Al-Kaida, Kadyrov's Army) of which we see as true monsters.

[DragonBallFoodie]

I prefer Saiyans to be redeemable.

I don't think calling a whole race evil works out very well. Toriyama may have recognized this?

[Asin]

I prefer Saiyans to be redeemable.

I don't think calling a whole race evil works out very well. Toriyama may have recognized this?

That's generally my thought process too. I would consider the culture we see to be horrible, but on a species level, I do not think of Saiyans as evil. Just very fight-oriented, which can easily lead to violent cultures.

[DiloVortexx]

That's generally my thought process too. I would consider the culture we see to be horrible, but on a species level, I do not think of Saiyans as evil. Just very fight-oriented, which can easily lead to violent cultures.

yeah pretty much how i feel about it too
like any species isnt going to 100% purely evil and making a species just purely evil as a whole is kinda Hmm for me

[miguelnuva1]

This topic is very intreasting to me. 10 years ago the vocal majority was the saiyans all had to be evil and Goku was the only nice one because he hit his head and Vegeta adapted.

[DiloVortexx]

This topic is very intreasting to me. 10 years ago the vocal majority was the saiyans all had to be evil and Goku was the only nice one because he hit his head and Vegeta adapted.

oh yea same!! and yep i remember those times

it really is interesting how fandom opinions change over time, huh? : o

[miguelnuva1]

This topic is very intreasting to me. 10 years ago the vocal majority was the saiyans all had to be evil and Goku was the only nice one because he hit his head and Vegeta adapted.

oh yea same!! and yep i remember those times

it really is interesting how fandom opinions change over time, huh? : o

Agreed.