Deep Thoughts: Movie 4 and The Garlic Jr. Saga

[ABED]

One thing I noticed last time I watched it was that it had really good sound design. Idk why it stuck out to me so much but it had that going for it. And the awesome music that got repurposed as Cell's theme

Otherwise, respectfully, I find it far more boring than Slug. Just imo of course.

No, you must share my opinion! Just kidding. I look forward to seeing you elaborate more on what you didn't like about The Return of Cooler when I get to that movie.

I can't believe I forgot, one aspect of the Garlic Jr. arc that bothers me a lot is when Kuririn supposedly turned by Piccolo's bite. They hid the lack of a bite because they were trying to misdirect the audience but then Kuririn's eyes change indicating he has been turned. That's not playing fair with the audience. Of course we might believe he's been turned, you show us that he's been turned. With Piccolo I can buy that he wouldn't be even after a bite. He's a demon, so maybe he can turn it off and on. I'll buy that wonky logic. Here it doesn't work and it's not how you do a misdirect. I won't ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen it but season 1 of The Good Place is how you do a misdirect that plays fair with the viewers.

Yeaaaaaah, this felt like a poorly written and executed fake out. I can't imagine what Toei's writers/story people were thinking because it at least made sense with Piccolo that he was able to literally force the bad stuff out of him. Krillin OTOH just baffles me because they even make it look like he was turned by the other Black Mist infected but PSYCHE!!!! oh nope turns out he's ok and both of them were faking. I'm sorry...what?

What I find even more baffling is that we don't see the bite but we see the eyes. What? Why show one and not the other? We see Piccolo holding Kuririn from behind and Kuririn screaming. We never see the teeth break the skin. If they had left it at that, the misdirect would play fair. The audience would likely sense the ruse, but it's the lesser of two evils.

[8000 Saiyan]

It was a nice throwback to the original Dragon Ball by having Piccolo grow to giant size in order to fight Garlic Jr.

Has it ever been said why Maron was designed to look like Bulma?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Garlic Jr. is a story I consistently recall being more interesting than it actually is, I seem to compress its runtime in my head. I know it went through it on Toonami and really enjoyed it at the time. As much as the fighting starts to run in circles pitting our reoccurring Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo trio against an immortal enemy with absolutely no help coming this time is enough of a shake up to sate me for a story this short. We wish Dragon Ball had more multi-man, drag out fights, well here we are. The aquamist was a neat play on Garlic's vague promises for an evil demon world in the movie, easily undone, leaves less collateral damage but a lot of silly situations for the restored characters to find themselves in. Bonus points for finding a way to scare little Gohan in a way even Lord Freezey Pop and his army of space pirates couldn't match, poor kid. I can agree with the Piccolo and Krillin fake-outs, though, something had to give but that was too easy.

For Slug I've said elsewhere that it was the beginning of the "dirty fighting" that would peak with Broly and I can enjoy it for that alone. A lesser retread of Tree of Might with a Namekian rather than Saiyan, but to me it is a fun little ride. That last shot of Goku looking out over that restored lake is always a stunner.

My favorite part of the Garlic Jr. Saga/arc isn't even technically part of it, it's the episode where Kuririn breaks up with Maron. Poor Kuririn. It's a really sad and un-Dragon Ball story with a SUPER sad ending, but it was refreshingly different. The laugh that's half laugh and half cry is heartbreaking. It was also nice to see how much the supporting characters genuinely care about each other, including Umigame.

Tanaka got that laugh just right, oof. I feel like this whole detour was worth it just for a chance to see Goku's dysfunctional family play out without Vegeta and him present (the more things change, huh). Turtle's birthday, Krillin hastily dumping Maron and his friends trying to tell him he did the right thing, Piccolo commending Gohan after Garlic is locked away, Korrin and Yajirobe capitulating to Maron. Fluffy but good stuff.

Dub: Apparently Dragon Ball Earth also has Humphry Bogart.

If this means that hard-boiled detective stories filtered through Toriyama-vision exist somewhere in the Dragon World, I'll take it. I was checking a few dubbeed scenes myself and aside from Garlic's excellent jabs, the winner was "Blow up the Makyo Star? I don't know Piccolo, that plan sounds half-baked to me!" "No, Krillin, its all baked!". Huber's cackling at the end was absolutely on point at the end there.

I've said this before, but in hindsight it would've been a lot smarter to have made Movie 4 a Garlic Jr. Sequel while making Lord Slug the filler villain.that way, the continuity shenanigans are gone and an Evil Namekian is an interesting follow up to the Frieza saga

As far as their evil schemes go, I can agree the aquamist would hit harder on a movie canvas, while an episodic story could get more out of the frozen planet plot. I do wonder if Slug, given a little more time, could be a better evil mirror to Piccolo than Garlic Jr. was to Kami. Between the King Piccolo and Namek arcs those two were casually given the coolest backstory in the series, but so much of it is there to advance the story that neither of them really get in a word about it. Always a bit disappointed Kami didn't have to plead his case to his predecessors a little bit more in the Garlic Jr. story as we got it, there's some easy melodrama to mine there.

[Super Sonic]

. For Spice Bart Myer stepped down and J Michael Tatum took over. Mustard was originally played by Mark Britten, but Brandon Porter took his place. Then Maron who was voiced by Daphne Gere became voiced by Leah Clark.

This always confused me. I get the recasting in the Ginyu and Frieza saga for consistency with the 2005 dub of the Namek Saga but what was the point of redubbing those 3 characters?


Surely it wasn't because they thought the performances were bad because um

https://youtu.be/1zjyTM7rbJs

If I recall correctly, wasn't Daphne Gere Hana from Fruits Basket and the singer of the YYH theme?

[MasenkoHA]

. For Spice Bart Myer stepped down and J Michael Tatum took over. Mustard was originally played by Mark Britten, but Brandon Porter took his place. Then Maron who was voiced by Daphne Gere became voiced by Leah Clark.

This always confused me. I get the recasting in the Ginyu and Frieza saga for consistency with the 2005 dub of the Namek Saga but what was the point of redubbing those 3 characters?


Surely it wasn't because they thought the performances were bad because um

https://youtu.be/1zjyTM7rbJs

If I recall correctly, wasn't Daphne Gere Hana from Fruits Basket and the singer of the YYH theme?

I don't know about Fruit basket but I'm pretty sure she sang Smile Bomb. I know she sang I'll Give You Romance for Dragon Ball and it sure sounds like the same singer as Smile Bomb.

ETA: Apparently a woman named Sara White sang Smile Bomb. Daphne Gere did I'l Give you Romance and the songs for Blue Gender

[Cipher]

I think Movie 4 is actually on the upper end of the really formulaic henchman-based-villain ones. The martial arts aren’t as flashy as in 1 or 2, but I love the look of the film, with its dark, neon-strewn city, and the Goku-Piccolo team-up for the climax (in addition to the pay-off with Piccolo’s hearing and the whistling) help shake things up a bit. The first appearance of “Super Saiyan” is also a fun novelty, and makes the movie interesting as a time capsule.

At any rate, I think it comes out a little more fun than 3, and depending on the day I might even say more so than 2. I don’t think any of them are great or anything though—just serviceable ways to get a taste of the series on home video in an era when it wasn’t the norm, and that’s about the only lens through which most of the old films make sense.

The Garlic Jr. arc has some truly funny bookending episodes, but man does it drag. Maybe if it lost three or four episodes…

[Vhanos]

A lot of the music tracks from DBZ movie 4 fitted with the scenes in the Garlic Jr. saga.

[Hellspawn28]

The Garlic Jr saga was unpopular even back in the days. Even the kids at my school hated it and told me to avoid it. It's a hard saga to watch for how boring and pointless it is. The saga was never mentioned again which shows that they wanted you to forget about it quickly. At least Paikuhan still had cameos after his saga was over.

[WittyUsername]

The Garlic Jr saga was unpopular even back in the days. Even the kids at my school hated it and told me to avoid it. It's a hard saga to watch for how boring and pointless it is. The saga was never mentioned again which shows that they wanted you to forget about it quickly. At least Paikuhan still had cameos after his saga was over.

I wouldn’t say that’s entirely accurate. Maron did return later in the Cell arc, and even DBS seemed to reference the character at one point.

[ABED]

The Garlic Jr saga was unpopular even back in the days. Even the kids at my school hated it and told me to avoid it. It's a hard saga to watch for how boring and pointless it is. The saga was never mentioned again which shows that they wanted you to forget about it quickly. At least Paikuhan still had cameos after his saga was over.

I don't know if they wanted to forget it, it's simply not an arc that has ramifications. I don't have a problem with it being non-canon or playing into the plot later. I'm perfectly okay with something being a self contained episode or arc even if it's filler. The reason I'm not a fan is because it's boring. There are good moments in there, but it's simply too long and uninteresting.

[90sDBZ]

The Garlic Jr saga was unpopular even back in the days. Even the kids at my school hated it and told me to avoid it. It's a hard saga to watch for how boring and pointless it is. The saga was never mentioned again which shows that they wanted you to forget about it quickly. At least Paikuhan still had cameos after his saga was over.

The dub actually makes a couple of references to it later on. When Gohan goes SS2 the narrator mentions him having battles with "Garlic Jr, the Ginyu Force, and Frieza".

And there's another subtle reference much later in the dub that's easy to miss. After Piccolo and Gotenks escape the Time Chamber and see the Lookout in ruins, Piccolo says "This place is ruined, again". The only other time the Lookout got trashed was in the fight with Garlic Jr, so that's what he's referring to.

I enjoy this arc for what it is. The fights are actually pretty fun to watch, and it feels like a nice foreshadowing of Gohan defeating a main villain. It's also one of the last times we see Krillin hold his own.

Movie 4 is also a fun watch. Goku taking out the henchmen is badass, and his fight with Slug is brutal. And it's nice to see Piccolo play a big part in the victory.