People who genuinely argue the humor added in dubs "Improves the show"

[Majin Buu]

Toriyama's Dragon Ball humor (when it's not being problematic) can stand on its own and runs circles around any of the "humor" Funi came up with. Toei's own Dragon Ball humor tends to be more standard than Toriyama's but can still be funny and is still leagues better than Funi's "try-hard" (SuperSaiyaManZ94 hit the nail on the head with that term) approach, which just comes across as cringe.

For me the worst part is that Dragon Ball is already a funny story. You don't need to add more humor.

Funi's bad attempts at humor actively makes Dragon Ball unfunny.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Well, the people who defend the humor in the Funimation dubs of Dragon Ball media also defend the adlibbing, and the swearing in YYH.

To them, the swearing and crass humor of Yusuke means that Funimation somehow understood the source material better than the guys who made the anime.

To be fair, and I hate saying this because it sounds like I am defending Funimation, the makers of the Yu Yu Hakusho anime didnt understand the material either. They modified a lot of cool stuff from the manga. You think what Toei did to Chi Chi is bad? Look at what they did to Keiko! And Orihime later on! And in both cases Noriyuki Abe is to blame.

[MasenkoHA]

Well, the people who defend the humor in the Funimation dubs of Dragon Ball media also defend the adlibbing, and the swearing in YYH.

To them, the swearing and crass humor of Yusuke means that Funimation somehow understood the source material better than the guys who made the anime.

To be fair, and I hate saying this because it sounds like I am defending Funimation, the makers of the Yu Yu Hakusho anime didnt understand the material either. They modified a lot of cool stuff from the manga. You think what Toei did to Chi Chi is bad? Look at what they did to Keiko! And Orihime later on! And in both cases Noriyuki Abe is to blame.

Tbf, the same can be said about Toei and Dragon Ball.


Gohan doesn't REALLY want to be a scholar, he actually wants to be a fighter like his dad and Piccolo. Oh...wait he actually does want to be a scholar and not a fighter? Oh


Goku's a pure-hearted messiah, right? What do you mean he's just some selfish hick who wants to fight?


I always say, say what you will about Funimation and how they handled the series, a lot of deviations they get accused of Toei did it first

[WittyUsername]

To be honest, I actually think a lot of the dumb jokes in the FUNimation dub have a so-bad-it’s-good charm to them. Don’t get me wrong, they’re really lame jokes that shouldn’t be there at all, but it’s hard for me not to chuckle at Garlic Jr’s weird fondness for baseball, or the idea that Humphrey Bogart not only exists in the Dragon Ball world, but that Gohan knows who he is. I’d say the same thing about the 4kids dub of One Piece.

[Vegetto95]

To be fair, and I hate saying this because it sounds like I am defending Funimation, the makers of the Yu Yu Hakusho anime didnt understand the material either. They modified a lot of cool stuff from the manga. You think what Toei did to Chi Chi is bad? Look at what they did to Keiko! And Orihime later on! And in both cases Noriyuki Abe is to blame.

Yeah, Studio Pierrot definitely has as big of a hard-on for character assassinations (especially when it came to female characters, and ESPECIALLY when they're the main female love interests) as Tôei. They're also the ones who turned Sakura in Naruto into even more of an angry, violent, physically abusive monster than she already was in the manga, and let's not even talk about other short-tempered females such as Tsunade, Karin, and the Mizukage getting very similar treatment. And I will NEVER forgive Pierrot for just flat out completely cutting Atsuko (Yusuke's mother) out of the YYH anime after the first few episodes.

But it doesn't stop at the female characters, though it is more prevalent there. For some reason, Pierrot had an OBSESSION with CONSTANTLY throwing in scenes with Koenma and Jorge (an anime-only character they invented) in the YYH anime, and almost all of them consisted of Koenma just being a petty, spiteful, cruel, physically and emotionally abusive MONSTER towards Jorge. FOR LAUGHS. Yeah, Pierrot... making your characters violently abusive wasn't any funnier with Sakura than it was with Koenma. STAHP.

It's kinda reminiscent of how a large percentage of original Dragon Ball's filler jokes was just "Make Muten Rôshi straight-up commit sexual assault because that's his main character trait or something", which was already borderline overdone in the manga, and just became UNBEARABLE in the anime and SUPER not-okay. And much like with Chichi, it just made Rôshi unlikable and unforgivable in a way he absolutely was NOT in the manga (scene where he flat out just gropes No.18's tits RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER GODDAMN THREE-YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, I'm looking at YOU in particular. Fuck that scene and FUCK Tôei for ever THINKING of including it).

So yeah, Tôei and Pierrot are both pretty bad in that respect. Still... WAAAAAAAY better than their dubs at the end of the day, that's for sure lmao

[Vegerotto]

Like most arguments in favor of dub changes, what people need to understand is that major creative decisions are not their job. That's not what dubs are for.

The point of a dub is to make an audio track for another language, and bring as similar an experience across as possible.

Honestly, I HEAVILY disagree. And from what I’ve read while lurking, I know I’m in the minority here, but well…

I think dubs ARE adaptations, in their own way.

Obviously, it’s not to the extent of Toei adapting a manga, but they’re adaptations nonetheless.

And I also don’t think that’s really the point of dubs. At the end for the day, the point is subjective, and changes from dub to dub but making changes can be part of the point of some dubs. At the very least, making changes isn’t contrary to any point of dubs.

Trying to get an accurate translation so English speaking fans can experience it is what SUBS are for, if anything, at least in my opinion.

And I have my fair share of dubs I personally dislike too - As a Kaguya-Sama fan, I can’t personally STAND the dub. I find it annoying and awkward and an entirely different type of humor that I hate.

However, I do have a friend who swears by the dub, loving the almost self deprecation vibe of it all, and how it acknowledges the absurdity and how stupid the two leads are- while correspondingly not liking the vibes of the sub and how it goes full on with the absurdity.

And anecdotally I’ve seen popular YouTube videos showing clips from the dub and saying how funny it is, and have run into other people who love it .

The sub and dub are two completely different shows in this case, but that isn’t a BAD thing. The dub isn’t the show I loved but it did become what other people loved - and brought more people into the overall fan base than there likely would be otherwise.

It gave more people something from this series they greatly enjoyed, potentially more than the alternative, and I can’t be anything other than grateful for that.

And well, while the dub isn’t for me, I have the sub. That isn’t going anywhere. I’ll still be having my fun leaning into the absurdity while dub fans have fun poking fun at that absurdity, and neither really interferes with the other.

This is all to say that dub changes aren’t necessarily a bad thing - far from it. Individual changes can of course be be bad but the concept isn’t.

Sorry if this is a bit rambly, just really wanted to get this out.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The sub and dub are two completely different shows in this case, but that isn’t a BAD thing. The dub isn’t the show I loved but it did become what other people loved - and brought more people into the overall fan base than there likely would be otherwise.

I think dubs can stand on their own, as long as they are accepted for what they are and not what they aren't. A faithful dub is the ideal because while anything can be enjoyed for what it is, it's an added bonus if the viewer can talk to someone who watched the original version and for the fact they watched in different languages can be rarely, if ever, relevant.

I love the Westwood dub of Z, the performances are a mixed bag, the script deviates greatly from the Japanese version by virtue of using Funimation's scripts almost verbatim, and the music makes it feel more goofy than that part of the story is meant to be. It's not a good representation of Toriyama's manga from chapters 336 to 519 or the corresponding episodes 123-291 of Dragon Ball Z in Japanese, and is for all intents and purposes a different show, but it's the show I grew up on and I have nostalgia for.

Would I recommend Westwood Z for anyone who wants to learn as much as they can about Dragon Ball? No. Would I recommend it for someone that just wanted to watch a show with a Saturday morning cartoon feel from the early 2000s? Yes.

I'm sure many others here can relate about the dubs they grew up on. They can be enjoyed with the right mindset and expectations.

[YoungDefender]

I think dubs can stand on their own, as long as they are accepted for what they are and not what they aren't. A faithful dub is the ideal because while anything can be enjoyed for what it is, it's an added bonus if the viewer can talk to someone who watched the original version and for the fact they watched in different languages can be rarely, if ever, relevant.

I love the Westwood dub of Z, the performances are a mixed bag, the script deviates greatly from the Japanese version by virtue of using Funimation's scripts almost verbatim, and the music makes it feel more goofy than that part of the story is meant to be. It's not a good representation of Toriyama's manga from chapters 336 to 519 or the corresponding episodes 123-291 of Dragon Ball Z in Japanese, and is for all intents and purposes a different show, but it's the show I grew up on and I have nostalgia for.

Would I recommend Westwood Z for anyone who wants to learn as much as they can about Dragon Ball? No. Would I recommend it for someone that just wanted to watch a show with a Saturday morning cartoon feel from the early 2000s? Yes.

I'm sure many others here can relate about the dubs they grew up on. They can be enjoyed with the right mindset and expectations.

Wholly agree. I hold both the Saban and Westwood dubs, as well as the original funimation dub, in high esteem not because they are some extremely serious or faithful adaptations of the original source material but because they are fun.

Are the performances campy and in some cases amateurish even by the standards of English anime localization for the time? Sure, but that has it's own charm and is part of the appeal (aside from the nostalgia factor, which is admittedly strong).

All three of these original English dubs established their own specific vibe and feel due in large part to each being accompanied by it's own unique and very memorable score. Each is basically it's own property and a different interpretation on the characters and story and in my view that's awesome.

In Canada we were exposed to all three of these dubs and while I don't have nostalgia in the strictest sense for the Westwood Android/Cell sagas since they did not air in Canada, or for the funimation dub after the switch over to Westwood mid-Cell games, I still like both dubs in their entirely and am happy we were exposed to all these awesome soundtracks growing up.

I think there is room enough in one's headspace for multiple, equally endearing versions of Dragon Ball Z.

[Shaddy]

The dub isn’t the show I loved but it did become what other people loved - and brought more people into the overall fan base than there likely would be otherwise. It gave more people something from this series they greatly enjoyed, potentially more than the alternative, and I can’t be anything other than grateful for that. And well, while the dub isn’t for me, I have the sub. That isn’t going anywhere. I’ll still be having my fun leaning into the absurdity while dub fans have fun poking fun at that absurdity, and neither really interferes with the other.

If these are really "two different shows", then it brought people into a different fan base, not some simulacrum of an "overall" one. And this is true! Look at how divided DB's fandom is because the dub got so far off that people have developed really awful impressions of what the show is and get defensive about it enough to trash on the original. That doesn't happen for shows with good dubs, and their fandoms aren't worse for it like ours is.

I think dubs ARE adaptations, in their own way.

And I also don’t think that’s really the point of dubs. At the end for the day, the point is subjective, and changes from dub to dub but making changes can be part of the point of some dubs. At the very least, making changes isn’t contrary to any point of dubs.

Trying to get an accurate translation so English speaking fans can experience it is what SUBS are for, if anything, at least in my opinion.

The sub and dub are two completely different shows in this case, but that isn’t a BAD thing.

It is absolutely a bad thing. You wouldn't be saying the "point of dubs" is something other than translation if so many dubs didn't make weird changes. I suspect this is a mentality born out of a desire to protect the validity of an appreciation for bad dubs, but either way it's not a good argument. If you're going to pretend that the dub makes a show a different show, then that's not within the rights of the dubbers. Do you think the people who make the original want their own product to "become a different show" just because some translators felt like changing things according to whatever they felt like?

Moreover, dubs are not exclusively for people that simply don't feel like listening to Japanese voices. It can come down to convenience, or accessibility, or just one's ability to parse the dialogue. To suggest that the "point" of dubs is to radically-change things according to the subjective whims of licensors is ignoring this, and for what? The vague abstraction of a different-audience that only watches shows whose dialogue has been replaced with worse dialogue? I'm pretty sure the popular show is not going to become less popular by retaining part of what made it popular in the first place.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah. I wanted to say the exact same thing but I am not good at making arguments like Shaddy is. And I really hate this because thanks to these dubs that alter everything about the show blind people will never get to experience the original vision of the creators. I have a blind friend in particular who hates all these dubs that are basically other shows and how thanks to the alterations he'll never get to watch the shows.

[Shaddy]

Similar story here. My sister can't read fast enough to keep up with subtitles, and even if she could, hearing voices in a language she doesn't know on top of that would probably confuse her even more.

But again, even if those problems didn't exist, I don't think anyone really looks at a good dub and thinks "Hmm, you know what, this show is pretty good, but I think I'd like it a bit more if all the dialogue was wrong".

[MasenkoHA]

As someone who also prefers dubs for animation it would be nice if Dragon Ball Z had a good dub with accurate scripts and decent voice acting.

Like cool they did a decent job with Kai but sometimes I want to watch Z with its Garlic jr arc and Saiyan training expanded and correctly utilized Kikuchi and not cringe everytime a character opens their mouth to speak in English


Truly, I am glad for people who enjoy the various Z dubs. They exist, they're not going anywhere, and I don't want them taken away from their fans. Funimation still should have dubbed the series correctly in the first place.


Or more accurately a competent company that didn't need to play Nepo Baby should have licensed the show

[8000 Saiyan]

If Toei wanted a good dub, they should have contacted Viz to do it.

But due to nepotism, Funimation got it.

Nice that they improved on their acting abilities, but if they were unable to afford experienced people back in 1999, maybe they shouldn't have gotten the rights to it in the first place.

[Majin Buu]

I'm sure many others here can relate about the dubs they grew up on. They can be enjoyed with the right mindset and expectations.

This isn't a universal experience though. Not everyone will stick with and/or remain found of the version they grew up on/discovered first. Hell, there's people here who started out as dubbies then became subbies- Myself included.

I was introduced to Dragon Ball through the Ocean dub of Z like most Western fans at the time and was genuinely into it until I discovered the original Japanese version after "Season 3". Even after that though, even though my heart was now with the Japanese version, I had to stick with the dub longer than I would have liked because I couldn't afford fansubs (even going so far as to continue taping the dub as it aired). It wasn't until we got the International Channel that I was able to properly watch Japanese Dragon Ball (as opposed to watching bad quality clips of certain fansubbed scenes online). They were on the tail-end of the Buu arc so as a consequence, I watched almost all of Dragon Ball Z through the English dubs before I ever properly watched it in Japanese.

I effectively grew up on the English dubs, and yet, I have no desire to go back to them because I simply discovered the source material and liked everything about it more than what Funimation was giving me (The Pioneer dubs of the first 3 Z movies are the sole exception since those were far more faithful that what Funi was putting out on TV and I do have some fondness for some of the Ocean cast). And again, I was genuinely into English DBZ prior to that.

[YoungDefender]

I'm sure many others here can relate about the dubs they grew up on. They can be enjoyed with the right mindset and expectations.

This isn't a universal experience though. Not everyone will stick with and/or remain found of the version they grew up on/discovered first. Hell, there's people here who started out as dubbies then became subbies- Myself included.

I was introduced to Dragon Ball through the Ocean dub of Z like most Western fans at the time and was genuinely into it until I discovered the original Japanese version after "Season 3". Even after that though, even though my heart was now with the Japanese version, I had to stick with the dub longer than I would have liked because I couldn't afford fansubs (even going so far as to continue taping the dub as it aired). It wasn't until we got the International Channel that I was able to properly watch Japanese Dragon Ball (as opposed to watching bad quality clips of certain fansubbed scenes online). They were on the tail-end of the Buu arc so as a consequence, I watched almost all of Dragon Ball Z through the English dubs before I ever properly watched it in Japanese.

I effectively grew up on the English dubs, and yet, I have no desire to go back to them because I simply discovered the source material and liked everything about it more than what Funimation was giving me (The Pioneer dubs of the first 3 Z movies are the sole exception since those were far more faithful that what Funi was putting out on TV and I do have some fondness for some of the Ocean cast). And again, I was genuinely into English DBZ prior to that.

I think that's awesome, when you open your mind the person who stands to benefit the most is yourself. There are aspects of the original Japanese that I like and appreciate but in all honesty it is not my favorite version of the series. Would it have been different if I grew up Japanese and watched it on TV that way? Probably but who are we if not a collection of our experiences?

I just don't personally jibe with the insinuation that real fans are obliged to rank order the various versions of the show putting the original cast/score always at the top by virtue to being the original, or most accurate or what have you. It's all personal taste in my opinion and sometimes someone who would not have connected with the original source material right away/on first viewing gets eased into it through a localization that takes some liberties but reaches a broader audience.

I have always toyed with the idea of watching the whole series, one episode at a time, across all the main versions (sub, Saban, funimation, UUU, Westwood, Kai sub, Kai dub) and being able to compare and contrast each to each other with it all being fresh in one's mind.

Yes, that means spending like 2 hours on episode 1 alone so you can appreciate why I haven't started this little project yet but time permitting I feel this could be the most comprehensive way to to appreciate all the differences and variations in the feel and impact of the show and certain moments across the different versions.

[MasenkoHA]

but if they were unable to afford experienced people back in 1999, maybe they shouldn't have gotten the rights to it in the first place.

The gag is they were able to afford experience people. Contrary to whatever baseless statement gets thrown around Funimation outsourced to Canada and went to the Ocean Group because they were cheap. It was never an affordability issue they just wanted to cut cost by cutting the middle man and doing it themselves.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

but if they were unable to afford experienced people back in 1999, maybe they shouldn't have gotten the rights to it in the first place.

The gag is they were able to afford experience people. Contrary to whatever baseless statement gets thrown around Funimation outsourced to Canada and went to the Ocean Group because they were cheap. It was never an affordability issue they just wanted to cut cost by cutting the middle man and doing it themselves.

It was more or less a cost cutting measure, as they figured that it would be cheaper to switch to in house for the dubbing process rather than continuing to outsource to the Ocean studio (among other things apparently it was quite pricey for Barry Watson's regular flights to Vancouver to oversee the dubbing/ADR sessions there) and that's basically what made the switchover happen.

It's a funny irony in hindsight that they initially cast the Ocean VA's for that reason and then changed in 1999 for effectively the same reason.

[Majin Buu]

I think that's awesome, when you open your mind the person who stands to benefit the most is yourself. There are aspects of the original Japanese that I like and appreciate but in all honesty it is not my favorite version of the series. Would it have been different if I grew up Japanese and watched it on TV that way? Probably but who are we if not a collection of our experiences?

That's not a universal thing though. Yeah, a lot of people are like that, but not everyone is.

I didn't need to grow up Japanese watching it in Japanese to like the Japanese version more than the English versions when I discovered it. Yes, we are a collection of our experiences, but your viewpoint is very different from mine despite us both having the same general staring point (A version of the show that wasn't the Japanese original).

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah, neither experience is universal.

[YoungDefender]

I think that's awesome, when you open your mind the person who stands to benefit the most is yourself. There are aspects of the original Japanese that I like and appreciate but in all honesty it is not my favorite version of the series. Would it have been different if I grew up Japanese and watched it on TV that way? Probably but who are we if not a collection of our experiences?

That's not a universal thing though. Yeah, a lot of people are like that, but not everyone is.

I didn't need to grow up Japanese watching it in Japanese to like the Japanese version more than the English versions when I discovered it.

No, of course it's not universal, I didn't intend to say it was but nostalgia is something that always gets thrown around in these conversations and I personally don't think it can be (or should be) discounted. Without nostalgia for Z I could easily have been be more of a One Piece fan than a Dragon Ball one but all the same not sure I want to hear that from a One Piece fan trying to tell me how much better that franchise is and that I only think Dragon Ball is a good anime due to nostalgia.