Yamcha Question

[Drunken Master]

That doesn't sound right at all. Godly training and an intense 3 years of training and he'd only be 10,000? Tenshinhan went from barely touching Nappa to being able to hold down Cell who was way stronger then base SSj. Ten trained more with North Kaio, but you get what I mean. Plus Gero did mistake Yamcha for Goku. If Yamcha was that inferior, the Cell Jr on his ass would have easily killed him, even if he was just playing around.

[Tyro]

Put it this way, Gero and #19 thought Yamcha was Son Goku. Yamcha has to be pretty strong at that point. That means Yamcha was at the very least as strong as Saiyan-saga Goku. Now Gero was a brilliant scientist, so I'm pretty sure he knows Goku would have improved and would have become much stronger than before.

I'd put Yamcha in the 10,000s at best.

I seriously doubt it was that low. After all, Goku was "over 8,000" by the Saiyan Saga, and according to Dr. Gero himself, "even projecting the most extreme rate of improvement for an adult combatant, we know the extent of the power that you might considerably weild."

So if they thought Yamcha was Goku... and that means 166 days of training harder than Goku's on Kaio-sama's plus three years of normal training on Earth... I'd put him at 60,000 or so.

[Rocketman]

That doesn't sound right at all. Godly training and an intense 3 years of training and he'd only be 10,000? Tenshinhan went from barely touching Nappa to being able to hold down Cell who was way stronger then base SSj. Ten trained more with North Kaio, but you get what I mean.

Tien had the Whatsitcalled attack.He was nothing compared to Cell otherwise.

Plus Gero did mistake Yamcha for Goku.

Does Gero know that Goku is a Saiyan? If not, an increase from Goku's last observed base (~8,000) to, say, 20,000 (my guess of Yamcha's max) would be covered in "most extreme rate of improvement", especially since they know of the Kaioken.

Also, consider this:

Gero saw Yamcha die. He also saw Piccolo die, and probably overheard Krillin saying they couldn't revive anyone now. Remember that he also didn't follow them to Namek.

So, he/#19 come across an elevated ki signature, who are they going to assume it is? Only Goku, Gohan, and Krillin were alive, last Gero heard.

If Yamcha was that inferior, the Cell Jr on his ass would have easily killed him, even if he was just playing around.

Given that SSJ Vegeta, the third strongest character there and over 50% of FPSSJ Goku's strength, was being toyed with also... Do you really think a difference of a few ten thousands will help against an enemy in the tens/hundreds of millions?

[Drunken Master]

Where does Tenshinhan pull out that ki? It's his, it's stated that the user puts all his ki into the attack, that's why it's dangerous. He later improves it so that he could judge how much power he uses. That's the force of his ki coming down on Cell.

I'll edit later, have to move car.

[Deus ex Machina]

Those jumps in power are more likely to give characters like Yamcha a fighting chance against the next threat. Yajirobe, for example, should be stronger than Goku at the 23rd Tournament but he probably isn't...
-Rick

Oh I agree with that; it's more of a convienant plot device to allow background characters to stay semi-relevant than anything else, but it still matters.

A human going from 1,000 to 60,000 in just a couple of days. HA!

Once again, how is that any less believable than Yamcha's battle power going up ten-fold in the span of a year training under Kami, when Goku trained with him three years for a miniscule power increase (relatively) ?

Besides, Yamcha was training with weighted clothes, over came the 10x gravity barrier much faster than Goku, and had sparring partners. All very important factors in training. And who said Yamcha only trained for a couple of days? Did anyone actually say when they arrived at Kaio's planet?

That was with the Kaioken. Goku's base was 90,000.

Is there an official source on that, or are you going by the color of his aura when he powered up in the anime?

[Rocketman]

[Once again, how is that any less believable than Yamcha's battle power going up ten-fold in the span of a year training under Kami, when Goku trained with him three years for a miniscule power increase (relatively) ?

Because a ten-fold increase then is 900 points gained over a year(-ish). The increase you're saying is 59,000 points gained in six(?) days.

And who said Yamcha only trained for a couple of days? Did anyone actually say when they arrived at Kaio's planet?

The Z dudes had to run down Snake Way. Remember that they only get to the part where they tell King Kai jokes (which happens before he'll train them) AFTER King Kai contacts Goku, who's on his way to Namek.

Is there an official source on that, or are you going by the color of his aura when he powered up in the anime?

I'm going by Goku saying "Kaioken!" just before he powers up in the manga.

[Deus ex Machina]

Because a ten-fold increase then is 900 points gained over a year(-ish). The increase you're saying is 59,000 points gained in six(?) days.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And I'll say it again; there's no difference in Yamcha raising his battle power from 100 to 1000, or Goku raising his battle power from 300 to 8000 in a very short time, than Yamcha raising his battle power from 1000 to around 60,000 also in a short amount of time, with the resources he had available to him.

The Z dudes had to run down Snake Way. Remember that they only get to the part where they tell King Kai jokes (which happens before he'll train them) AFTER King Kai contacts Goku, who's on his way to Namek.

I sorta remember that scene, but I couldn't recall if Goku had been in space or still in the hospital. It's been quite a few years since I last saw that episode on TV.

I'm going by Goku saying "Kaioken!" just before he powers up in the manga.

Ah, well that answers that. But there's still a difference between a mortal Goku training by himself with a gravity machine, and Yamcha training with partners under Kaio for the same length of time without the restrictions of a living body. That's my theory and I stick to it.

It's kinda funny I haven't seen anyone arguing against Tenshinhan's ability to defeat Butta and Jheece at the same time, or Chaozu defeating Guildo.

[Undercooked Sausage]

You know, going by the manga, do we ever see him fight again post Saiya-Jin saga? I'd definitely say, going by canon, that Yamcha's power level would probably be in the 10,000s.

I mean, sure he trained for a few days with Kaio, but all of his other training was done on Earth.

Let's say Yamcha was a little below Goku's level after being revived. Makes sense, after all, as he was able to master 10x gravity but apparently Kaio never deemed it necessary to teach him any of his actual techniques. I find it dificult to believe that he's jump from the 6-8k range to the 60k range from just three years of training by himself on Earth. Everytime there was that big of a increase in strength in a fighter, it was through some extraordinary methods of training, be it under Kami, or Kaio, or The Room Of Spirit and Time. I'd find it hard to believe that Yamcha would become eight times stronger by simply running around in the woods, or however he trained.


I'd rank Krillin and Ten a bit higher though, mainly because we actually see them fight post-Saiya-jin saga.

[Rocketman]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And I'll say it again; there's no difference in Yamcha raising his battle power from 100 to 1000, or Goku raising his battle power from 300 to 8000 in a very short time, than Yamcha raising his battle power from 1000 to around 60,000 also in a short amount of time, with the resources he had available to him.

Yes, there is. Because there's a massive difference between twelve months and six days. Nobody gains that much power that quickly.

It's kinda funny I haven't seen anyone arguing against Tenshinhan's ability to defeat Butta and Jheece at the same time, or Chaozu defeating Guildo.

Tien's victory is completely impossible. He uses the four bodies move, which splits your power, speed, everything by four. So Tien had to be 240,000 to defeat Burter and Jeice like that.

Chaozu beating Guildo isn't quite as crazy, though. Guildo was referred to as 'a total shrimp' compared to the other members of the Ginyu Force by Krillin. 10,000s might be enough to defeat him, especially since he was just knocked off the planet, not killed.

[Pieter]

Tenshinhan's victory is completely impossible. He uses the four bodies move, which splits your power, speed, everything by four. So Tenshinhan had to be 240,000 to defeat Burter and Jeice like that.

Chaozu beating Guildo isn't quite as crazy, though. Guildo was referred to as 'a total shrimp' compared to the other members of the Ginyu Force by Krillin. 10,000s might be enough to defeat him, especially since he was just knocked off the planet, not killed.

I'm not sure if this is filler, but we do have a better indication of Tien's power if the fight with piccolo on King Kai's was cannon. Piccolo did have to face Yamcha as well, and Chauzu managed to annoy him but the fact that they were hurting him says enough (even though he wears weighted clothing). Piccolos power is about a million when he goes to Namek. The only problem is that we don't know how much power he gained when he fused with Nail. If we would say it doubled, then 240,000 isn't impossible. You've made a little mistake as well, Tenshinhan didn't split in four but in two.

[mAcChaos]

Wait, six days? Wasn't Yamcha and crew on King Kai's planet way longer than that?

[Pieter]

Wait, six days? Wasn't Yamcha and crew on King Kai's planet way longer than that?

Piccolo wasn't, Yamcha stayed for 130 days extra and Ten + Chauzu 260 days.

[Conan the SSJ]

Filler or not, in the anime canon, Yamcha is powerful enough to defeat Recoome, whom has a PL of 40,000 (according to DBZ Sagas, which seemed to get all the PLs rights). Putting into consideration he still had a hard time in the battle, that'd mean he'd be stronger, though not that much more than Recoome and Nail (who's max. is equal to Recoome). Add to that Yamcha had an entire following period of 130 days on Kaio's planet, presumably training, then he'd have to be fairly powerful by the time of Freeza's return on Earth, I mean a Ki blast of his was able to hurt Piccolo and he survived 300x gravity.

Then there's the 3 years of training, Yamcha was evidently powerful enough to join the others in the South City search, but my guess is he was the weakest among them. But ya' know, he survived being impaled by Dr. Gero and even stood up to Cell with everyone else during the final Kamehame-Ha struggle (not to mention surviving the Cell Jr.s before hand). By the time of Bojack, my guess is Yamcha was at least slightly stronger than Goku was when he arrived on Namek...then it all went downhill.

Keep in mind everyone, that rant was mainly circling around the anime canon, not the manga.

Tenshinhan's victory is completely impossible. He uses the four bodies move, which splits your power, speed, everything by four. So Tenshinhan had to be 240,000 to defeat Burter and Jeice like that.

He only split in two.

[Mr.Piccolo]

Piccolos power is about a million when he goes to Namek. The only problem is that we don't know how much power he gained when he fused with Nail. If we would say it doubled, then 240,000 isn't impossible.

Piccolo's power was probably in the one million range after he fused with Nail. What was his power before that? In the ginyu force range? I just want to point out that King Kai said something about a few months training with him is a like a thousand years on earth. I really don't know how to respond to that one..

But ya' know, he survived being impaled by Dr. Gero and even stood up to Cell with everyone else during the final Kamehame-Ha struggle (not to mention surviving the Cell Jr.s before hand).

I remember the Gero one but the Cell one was filler right? Probably in his first form or something? And about the Cell jrs., he took the worst beating out of all of the fighters which imo shows he honestly was the weakest out of everyone (still being way behind Tenshinhan).
-Rick

[Pieter]

Piccolo's power was probably in the one million range after he fused with Nail. What was his power before that? In the ginyu force range?

Yes, that's what I meant in the first place.

[Conan the SSJ]

I remember the Gero one but the Cell one was filler right? Probably in his first form or something?

I'm referring to the final Kamehame-Ha battle between Super Kanzentai Cell and SSJ2 Gohan, when Tien, Yamcha, Kuririn, and Piccolo all come to help Gohan against Cell. That was anime-exclusive, but to be fair with Yamcha, it looked like he took the worse amount of punishment considering he was the weakest among the bunch. What you're thinking of is probably a small scuffle Kuririn has with 1st form Cell before Piccolo's battle with 17, Kuririn saved a mother and her child (if I remember right) and was actually very heroic, showing his full power against Cell and even catching him off guard a couple times.

[Rocketman]

Wait, six days? Wasn't Yamcha and crew on King Kai's planet way longer than that?

They were only on the planet for six days before the Ginyu Force showed up in the anime.

So, Yamcha and Tien went from about 1000 to 45,000/120,000 respectively.

In six days.

No. Way.

[Drunken Master]

Why discuss filler anyhow? They never make sense as Rocketman points out.

Tenshinhan couldn't do anything near the END of the Piccolo/Goku fight. You'd think Piccolo would have spent enough energy, but he just swipes his hand, makes a wide hole in front of Ten and says he'll kill him later. Ten says he's still too powerful...So I don't see Ten getting a great hit on Piccolo like he did in a filler scene on North Kaio-sama's planetoid. I love that scene, I mean...Tenshinhan nearly knocks Piccolo's head off as Yamcha nearly makes Piccolo puke from a stomach shot, but c'mon...The power gap was bigger this time around.

[mAcChaos]

I don't remember ever seeing that. I might have just never seen it assuming that I knew what was there already. Anyone know if there's a clip anywhere? Piccolo fighting Yamcha and Tenshinhan, interesting...

[Undercooked Sausage]

Anime canon, the earthling Z senshi are all in the 100,000s at least.

Going by manga canon, however, Yamcha is probably in the 10,000s whereas Krillin and Ten are probably in the 30,000 range.