Why scaling matters

[super michael]

Goku and Vegeta training with a Angel made their base from stronger than the Z fighters in RoF.
Freeza in his 1st form could beat the entire Z fighters, except Goku and Vegeta. Freeza needed his final form to challenge Base Goku and Base Vegeta.

So training with a Angel does increase their Base form and other transformation. Base Cabba is stronger than Final Form Freeza at least.

Base Copy Vegeta beat SSJ3 Gotenks like he was nothing.

RoF Piccolo struggled with a guy said to be above Zarbon. RoF is a big mess that makes no sense at all. Besides, they were conceived as standalone features, Goku never absorbs SSG in the manga, and does and doesn't in the anime, depending on the source of the episode, (if it was from a Toei exclusive mini arc, he does; if it was Toriyama exclusive arc he does not).
The RoF feats can also be explained by The God Beyond Base, a god ki-fueled state only seen in filler episodes, in RoF and never again.

Base Trunks does not surpass RoF Freeza, yet he fights evenly with a Black arc Goku. The GBB had been dropped by that time, those feats were due to that hybrid state.
Cabba needed SS2 to survive Freeza in the ToP, even though they both had grown stronger. He should be eating Freeza's heart with a 100x boost on top of already being stronger, don't you agree? Base Cabba is not touching RoF Freeza.
In the manga, Caulifla, even stronger than Cabba, needs SS to fight ToP Freeza.
Gokube just brought up another example from the ToP, discrediting the notion that the filler episodes set the tone for the entire show across every medium.

It’s extremely obtuse to put more weight on the early developments than on the later ones, especially when the latter explicitly override them. Treating early or filler content as gospel is just cherry-picking.

It’s not a retelling of actual events, therefore we can, and probably must, weed out the outliers, since it isn’t a anime-only discussion, the entire show needs to be included, and the manga has been scale-cheking the movies, just like the main arcs have been scale-checking the filler episodes of the anime.

Not everything counts, we already did that shit with DBZ, we don't pretend Goku arrived in two spaceships to Earth, right? even though filler episodes imply so.

Even Toei values the main arcs more than their own filler, yet some fans will do the opposite and kid themselves into thinking literally everybody can oneshot Buuhan because it supports the notion that DBS doesn't make sense. DBS only makes sense when viewed as a whole, not just through anime filler.

I am aware about RoF mess, even the movie when Freeza predicts he would reach 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense at all. On Namek in his 1st form, he has 530,000 power level and his 2nd form has over 1,000,000 power level. So what by making his 1st form 1,300,000 he surpassed everyone except Goku and Vegeta in his first form.

Is there any official statement that they dropped The God Beyond Base? Plus if they dropped it, that would mean they nerfed Goku and Vegeta by a lot.
The anime writing should have put more effort into their writing. It is like they didn't communicate with each other. One episode berserk LSSJ Kale is stronger than SSB Goku, then in her controlled and stronger LSSJ she is struggling against SSJ2 Goku.

DBS isn't following the manga, so how can we ignore filler?

Toriyama clearly changed his mind about Goku absorbing the power of ssjg into his base when the series went past the movies, but his notes didn't inform the anime writers. I refuse to believe that little bug who was hard to hit in the TOP etc, who were a threat to Goku in base, is stronger than Boohan.

Basil was also a threat to Goku. The same Basil who got battered by Mr Boo, before Boo had done any training (his training is ludicrous) and this was a powered up Basil. How can Basil lose to Mr Boo but be a threat to a godly base+++ Goku?

17's gains are funny when you think about it because not only is the 'he's been training since Cell' non specific and provides no clarity on what stimulus he could possibly get by himself, on Earth, considering how strong he already is, but when you think about it logically, it throws other things into chaos. When someone starts training, he'd get his newbie gains. With no new Gods and training methods like Goku got to make huge new leaps later in his life, 17's biggest gains should be at the START of his Earth training. So he had 7 years of that before Boo arrived. So why didn't a ssjg tier 17 show up and crush Boo into nothing?

Yes exactly they didn't communicate with each other clearly, that is the problem.

The same with SSB Goku being even to C17, then later on Base Goku > C17 in the Black Hole.

[Almighty Majin]

I think the biggest problem with the power scaling in Super is that there is no proper comparison to the Buu arc or even Z in general.

Let's look at Battle of Gods. Beerus is introduced and makes short work of SSJ3 Goku, beats up Majin Buu, and makes Gohan and Gotenks look like a joke. Goku doubts the success of fusion working against Beerus and has to resort to achieving the legendary form that is Super Saiyan God. In a vacuum this is all good, but the problem is that Beerus is later on shown to be stronger than any mortal fighter in Super so Battle of Gods is not a good indicator for how Super era characters compare to Z.

In Resurrection F, Freeza returns stronger than ever after training for the first time in his life. This arc suffers from Freeza never truly fighting in his first form and then fighting base Goku in his true form. We have an idea that Freeza is vaguely stronger than Piccolo and Gohan in his first form, but Piccolo is out here losing to guys who should be Zarbon level and Gohan is at the rustiest he has ever been so that does not help much. All we know is that Golden Freeza is stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta individually that is about as concrete as it gets.

I think the biggest mistake is not allowing Buu to fight. I think that if we saw Buu participate in the battle against Freeza's army on Earth and in the U6 Tournament, we would have had a better idea as to where DBS characters stand in terms of power. The reluctance to use Buu just really makes the power levels unnecessarily vague. At best, you could argue that the omission of Buu means that he is too powerful, but they could have easily showcased this by having him actually fight. Instead, we are stuck in this limbo of not really knowing what would happen if Buu actually participated. If Buu could put up a fight against first form Freeza in RoF or defeat some of the U6 contestants, we would have a much clearer idea on where some of these characters stand.

[Hugo Boss]

I am aware about RoF mess, even the movie when Freeza predicts he would reach 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense at all. On Namek in his 1st form, he has 530,000 power level and his 2nd form has over 1,000,000 power level. So what by making his 1st form 1,300,000 he surpassed everyone except Goku and Vegeta in his first form.

Is there any official statement that they dropped The God Beyond Base? Plus if they dropped it, that would mean they nerfed Goku and Vegeta by a lot.
The anime writing should have put more effort into their writing. It is like they didn't communicate with each other. One episode berserk LSSJ Kale is stronger than SSB Goku, then in her controlled and stronger LSSJ she is struggling against SSJ2 Goku.

DBS isn't following the manga, so how can we ignore filler?

There’s never been an explicit statement dropping “God Beyond Base” (base form being god-tier after absorbing the Super Saiyan God power), but the way characters are written from the Champa arc onwards just doesn’t support it consistently. In some episodes, base Goku and Vegeta are trading blows with gods, and in others, they’re struggling against opponents that should be beneath even Namek Freeza-tier. That inconsistency suggests the writers used the idea selectively without telling the audience or each other. So yeah, it’s hard to ignore these “filler” inconsistencies when they’re baked into the main narrative. It’s part of why power scaling in Super TV anime is such a challenge to pin down.

[Koitsukai]

I am aware about RoF mess, even the movie when Freeza predicts he would reach 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense at all. On Namek in his 1st form, he has 530,000 power level and his 2nd form has over 1,000,000 power level. So what by making his 1st form 1,300,000 he surpassed everyone except Goku and Vegeta in his first form.

Is there any official statement that they dropped The God Beyond Base? Plus if they dropped it, that would mean they nerfed Goku and Vegeta by a lot.
The anime writing should have put more effort into their writing. It is like they didn't communicate with each other. One episode berserk LSSJ Kale is stronger than SSB Goku, then in her controlled and stronger LSSJ she is struggling against SSJ2 Goku.

DBS isn't following the manga, so how can we ignore filler?

There's no need for one. That "state" was only seen in RoF, and then in filler episodes. The main arcs reverted their base power to something akin to what the manga was having: vaguely above their pre-DBS levels.
They were nerfed after having been extremely buffed up, it's hard to keep the tension going when the MCs are worlds above everybody else, while keeping everything else involved.

The takeaway is that Toriyama, as seen in Toyo's manga, probably decided to drop that whole SSG having being absorbed in base(or was convinced to, most likely he didn't give a shit), a change that probably happened after the anime green-lit that development, IDK, I'm just guessing here. And although they stick to the notes in the main arcs, they went back to their crazy scaling in filler episodes without a care in the world. The ToP had plenty of that as you pointed out with that Black Hole scene.

Either that movie-only, filler-only state is removed or literally everybody is miles ahead of BoG SSG, not just stronger, miles ahead.

Of course we can ignore filler, DBS follows Toriyama's notes as the manga does, DBS is still a Toriyama story.
So, those episodes that did not follow his notes but some director's notes should not supersede the main notes that dictate the actual story.

Trunks, a year prior was about as strong as Dabura, cannot be now 400x stronger than BoG SSG... it makes no sense. Piccolo, in one arc, went from struggling with Tagoma to fighting people that forced the supposedly God in Base Goku turn SS?
Buu is another thing, he keeps being brought up as some great ally... could he be one, could he really be better than others, if they could oneshot him as easily as Yamcha? Buu falling asleep then is irrelevant, he is fodder like the rest next to Goku.

it's clearly not the authorial intent but the result of the many contradictions never addressed by the anime writing staff.
Either we discard the filler or we die on the hill of "DBS makes no sense even though dropping some problematic, non-Akira episodes would make everything add up just fine".