Some confusion on when everyone reached certain SS levels.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:00 pm

The anime fits its own track and GT follows the anime, so bwa.

MyVisionity · Post by **MyVisionity** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:05 pm

As I recall, Vegeta was originally supposed to lose his body and go to Hell, but because of the situation going on with Buu on Earth King Enma decided to let him keep his body just in case they needed him. At least in the anime.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:14 pm

I think the reason certain unlikely people kept their bodies was simply because the storyline said they had to.

In all works of fiction, things happen the way the storyline tells them to happen, and even if it's a contradiction, you're forced to accept it.

Which sucks, but Hell, what do you want.

100th post!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:20 pm

That didn't take too long, did it now?

Hit 1000.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:22 pm

I think he plans on reaching "I Live Here" by mid-summer.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:22 pm

I know, 4 days. I must have no life.

Oh, I plan to hit 1,000. I plan to hit 10,000! 100,000! A Meeeelion! Look out Jersey! BWA HA HA!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Hey, Jersey! Looks like you've got an enemy. One of those, "not-yet-proved-himself-to-be-a-rival-rivals". Like Sakuragi to Rukawa.

Damn it, Slam Dunk! Get out of my head!

...And don't you dare jump past me by 1000 posts while my eyes are acting up. I'll grab a spoon and start heading for your house if you do...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:32 pm

PsyLiam wrote:Granted, the electricity is a sign, but they have made mistakes over that before (Future Gohan having it, for one).

I suppose it depends on how you view the Majin power-up. If it was a permenant thing (like the Namek Elder's "untapping of potential"), then there was no need for Vegeta to stay Majin after he received the power-up. If it was temporary, then he could very well have lost it when he died, and so no longer had the amount of power necessary to turn Super Saiyan 2. Or maybe he just wasn't mad enough.

Did Vegeta keep his body in the afterlife? I'm sort of hazy with that point in the series, due to missing a few episodes.

I don't see how power has anything to do with being able to attain the levels of SSJ. Never did, never will. The reason they transform is to become stronger since they need the power which makes needing a lot of power to attain it seem quite stupid to me.

Once you hit a level you can't lose it, period. Therfore either the Majin Power made him go SSJ2 and he kept it or he already had the power before hand.

The only other thing possible is that a Majin SSJ looks like an SSJ2 (and has as much power) without actually being SSJ2. Or, hell, a Majin Saiya-jin looks like an SSJ2 without having the power to transform or anything. I seem to remember Vegeta being close to out cold at one point and not 'falling out' of SSJ2.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:42 pm

Xyex wrote:I don't see how power has anything to do with being able to attain the levels of SSJ. Never did, never will. The reason they transform is to become stronger since they need the power which makes needing a lot of power to attain it seem quite stupid to me.

Once you hit a level you can't lose it, period. Therfore either the Majin Power made him go SSJ2 and he kept it or he already had the power before hand.

Of course the power has something to do with it. Otherwise why didn't Goku go straight to Super Saiyan 2 when Kuririn was killed? Was he less angry than Gohan was? Likewise, was Kuririn's death the single most horrible thing he'd ever seen? Had he never got that angry before, even when (say), Kuririn was killed the first time? Plus there's the popular idea that a person has to have a certain power level before they can turn Super Saiyan.

Granted, it's all speclation, but it's not silly. Tranforming may increase their power, but it does take an effort. Perhaps transforming a body that's too weak will damage it (like the oft-used and always stupid "I have to stay in my first form because I have too much gosh darn power in my ultimate form to handle oh look I can handle it fine silly me" theory).

It does seem easier to attain a stage that's already been attained, but that doesn't mean that a person might not lose the ability to reach it. Granted, we never saw that (apart from maybe with Vegeta, depending on how this argument goes), but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

And saying "period" does not actually make you right, y'know.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:49 pm

Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period.

........ Hmm.... I guess you're right.

Anyway, I'm not debating this matter because I'll end up being a jerk since I competely believe everything I said before and not even Toriyama-sama could change my mind on the mater.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:53 pm

Not even Toriyama-sama could change my mind on the matter.

RED ALERT! RED ALERT!

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:57 pm

Oh no no no, don't stop. Honestly, I love debates like this. Having a different point of view is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. A great thing. The only time it's bad is when someone doesn't have any evidence or theories to back up their idea. You certainly do, even if you are wrong. I'll admit, if I saw that scene where Vegeta had lightning after he became de-majinfied, I'll admit that you are right. Maybe.

However, that doesn't mean that he turned Super Saiyan 2 before the tournament. Someone said (and I can't even remember if it was you), that Vegeta probably attained Super Saiyan 2 shortly after Goku did. But then, why didn't he also attain Super Saiyan 3? I just don't think that he did reach any new level, and that he saw the Majin thing as a way of attaining that level of power (which at the very least would make him stronger than Gohan was during the Cell games, a visible goal).

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:40 am

Ben Plante wrote: -Vegeta,... Then his SS4 trandformation in GT... can someone fill me on that, I haven't seen that arc yet.

I'm not sure if anyone answered that question already, but let me give you a run down.

- After changing into SSJ4, Goku is beating the tar out of the Baby-controled Vegeta.

- To save Baby, the evil Bulma uses her tower and satelite dishes to flood Vegetas body with "Blutz Waves", changing him into a Super Ape. (Vegetas tail is long gone at this point, thus he needs a much higher level of blutz waves to transform)

- Much later Bulma realizes Goku is going to need help, so she designs a machine based on the tower called the Blutz Wave Amplifier. With it she transforms Vegeta into a giant ape.

- The giant ape Vegeta pretends to be out of control, then transforms into Super Ape, then easily into SSJ4.

It would seem to become a SSJ4, all one needs is the ability to transform into a regular SSJ, then do it while they re in ape form. If you are able to control your mind, you become SSJ4 automatically.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:04 am

Deus, I meant during the Dark Shenlong Saga, how does Vegeta go SS4 there?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:21 am

Amy said. Bulma builds (or rebuilds) the Blutz/Brutz wave amplifier, and the beams make Vegeta go Oozaru. He then pretends to be out of control (oh, Vegeta, you prankster), but he really isn't. He turns Golden Ozaru, and then from there to Super Saiyan 4. Like Goku, all it seems that you need to turn Super Saiyan 4 is the ability to become a Golden Ozaru, and control your mind.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:31 am

Aha. Thank you Liam and Jersey, even though I missed your explanation because I suck.

As for Goten and Little Trunks being able to go SS, I'm gonna have to fanwank this. Yes, the acquired traits theory has been shot down (Right), but... well, in DBZ land, maybe that's not the case. So, Goku was SS when Goten was conceived, and Vegeta was either SS or close to it when Trunks was conceived, maybe the kiddies inherited that trait. That's some strong sperm. Golden haired sperm...

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:35 am

That was always what I went for. Either that, or Trunks broke Goten's original 1984 Optimus Prime toy, or something.

And considering the other situations that cause a person to go Super Saiyan, it's not actually that outrageous a theory that sexual intercourse might do it. Especially in Vegeta's case. He strikes me as the sort of person who would approach every shag as a battle to be won.

Can't be overly pleasent for the women though, having sex with people who can destroy moutains just by slapping them. I bet they're sore afterwards.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:37 am

B-kun wrote:I think he plans on reaching "I Live Here" by mid-summer.

At least I'll have some company.

And I've given up on trying to figure out the whole SSJ Trunks and Goten thing. So you may just be absolutely correct in your theory Ben.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:43 am

It'll be hard to catch you up though, considering you've made...

*checks*

17.9% of all the posts here! Good grief! Almost 1/5th of everything written comes from the mouth (or at least, the fingers) of Amy JerseyMilk.

Scary thought.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:46 am

Yeess, yes that is a scary thought, especially since I'm now talking like BW Megatron.

Kanzenshuu

Some confusion on when everyone reached certain SS levels.

Re: Some confusion on when everyone reached certain SS level

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