Is Dragon Ball Z, Super, and Daima consider to be "Holy Trinity"?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

My holy trinity is DBZ Movies 1-3 with the Canadian cast.

That's the gold standard when it comes to the English dubs .

Come to think of it there are 3 Dragon Ball Z productions that the Canadian cast were involved in. The Saban dub, the Pioneer dub and the Westwood dub, although arguably Saban and Westwood are heavily flawed so as much as I love that cast I can't consider the three productions any sort of holy trinity.

[90sDBZ]

I think I agree with the majority here, in that DB, Z, and GT are the closest thing this franchise has to a "holy trinity".

Although lately I feel myself appreciating Kai more and more, and would honestly consider it a perfectly legit way to watch Z.

A few years back I rewatched OG DB, and then immediately continued into Kai, and it didn't feel all that jarring to me. DB had less filler than Z to begin with, so watching Kai right after it flows pretty well.

GT benefits from coming out immediately after Z, and feels the most like a continuation of that production. Also the characters still mostly felt like themselves.

Super is kind of all over the place, despite being fun overall. Goku was a caricature, and a lot of the humour wore thin (Everyone is afraid of Beerus, Buu is asleep again, Goku's an idiot etc..).

Daima was fine. That's the best way I can describe it. The animation was consistent, the characters felt like themselves, and some of the fights were good. It did feel a bit meh around the middle for sure, but those last 3 episodes were a lot of fun (despite coming out of nowhere with very little buildup). At only 20 episodes it's hard to see it having the same impact as the previous shows anyway.

[BernardoCairo]

For me it's all about the original manga. But I also love the original Dragon Ball series.

So for me it would be: Dragon Ball (manga), Dragon Ball (show) and Dragon Ball Z. Of course, I also like aspects of Super, Daima, the movies, etc.

[ScouterSSJ]

Maybe RoF is a bit weak in the sense that it didn't work well as a movie but when it comes to the main plot it was very well written.

What plot ? Freeza comes back, fights the heroes, then loses. There was not a single plot twist or character development for anyone. That's no different from Z's old movies, but at least they had the excuse of being released every six months. Resurrection F was in development for two years, and it couldn't even give us an original villain. At least we got someone original in Z's old movies.

No character development for anyone? I mean, the movie was all about re-introducing the "new" Frieza to the audiences!
Toei Frieza had been turned into a 10 seconds gag ("hohohoho I'm going to destroy you saiyans" -> anyone turns SSJ and proceeds to kill him in 1 blow) while this movie actually gave depth to the character.
That alone is already more character development than any of the Toei movies...

The fight itself was also very good (at least compared to any Toei Z movie)...

[MasenkoHA]

Maybe RoF is a bit weak in the sense that it didn't work well as a movie but when it comes to the main plot it was very well written.

What plot ? Freeza comes back, fights the heroes, then loses. There was not a single plot twist or character development for anyone. That's no different from Z's old movies, but at least they had the excuse of being released every six months. Resurrection F was in development for two years, and it couldn't even give us an original villain. At least we got someone original in Z's old movies.

No character development for anyone? I mean, the movie was all about re-introducing the "new" Frieza to the audiences!
Toei Frieza had been turned into a 10 seconds gag ("hohohoho I'm going to destroy you saiyans" -> anyone turns SSJ and proceeds to kill him in 1 blow) while this movie actually gave depth to the character.
That alone is already more character development than any of the Toei movies...

The fight itself was also very good (at least compared to any Toei Z movie)...

That’s not character development

[Majin Buu]

Toriyama's original manga and its anime adaptation(s) is the only material I would consider "holy" when it comes to Dragon Ball since the manga is the original story and franchise source material, which would make my answer to this "no" since going by the anime version, that's only OG Dragon Ball and Z (or Kai if you prefer it over Z) so it's more of a holy duo rather than a trio for me.

GT gets points for introducing the iconic Super Saiyan 4 and for providing what many consider a more satisfying conclusion than the manga; but like Super and Daima, it only exists in the first place because of the stuff that came before it, putting it a step below OG Dragon Ball and Z in importance for me.

My holy trinity is DBZ Movies 1-3 with the Canadian cast.

That's the gold standard when it comes to the English dubs

Agreed on that.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

GT gets points for introducing the iconic Super Saiyan 4 and for providing what many consider a more satisfying conclusion than the manga.

If Dragon Ball took a few years off and gave GT's team to actually plan and revise everything, then I think it could've easily been just as good as DB & Z.

[Majin Buu]

If Dragon Ball took a few years off and gave GT's team to actually plan and revise everything, then I think it could've easily been just as good as DB & Z.

Agreed.

For me, both GT and Super are too flawed to be considered anything more than mixed bags as projects intended to be continuations of the original story. That being said, both did have the potential to be as good (if not better) than the original story, potential that was squandered due to mismanagement of those projects.

[Cold Skin]

This argument falls completely apart when the default official version of the first 98 episodes of Kai not only does use the Kikuchi score but very badly at that.

Big mistake on their part. They should have hired someone to make new music rather than going back to Kikuchi, which really reduces the quality of Kai by half. Believe that despite having Blu-ray releases, I still kept the original runs for the music too, cause if I have to show it to someone, God knows the Kikuchi music won't do to take anything seriously at that period of the story.

All in all, Kai is watchable (despite still being judged too long by those who discovered the story for the first time through it around me, especially the battle against Freeza and too much kept in the Boo arc). Z isn't watchable and I don't ever want to see it again. Ever. That's all there is to it to make me feel Kai's better. One makes me say "oh nice!", the other one make me say "oh please, no..."

Maybe RoF is a bit weak in the sense that it didn't work well as a movie but when it comes to the main plot it was very well written.

What plot ? Freeza comes back, fights the heroes, then loses. There was not a single plot twist or character development for anyone. That's no different from Z's old movies, but at least they had the excuse of being released every six months. Resurrection F was in development for two years, and it couldn't even give us an original villain. At least we got someone original in Z's old movies.

Just making me respect Freeza as someone being able to be a threat in the current state of things was enough of a plot. Before this movie, I considered Freeza a joke and the event on Namek being childplay for the weaklings at this point where things are "not yet interesting" compared to the cyborgs/Cell arc and beyond. Why was Kaio, a kind of deity, even afraid of him? Freeza was clearly stated as being one-shot worthy by the Kaio Shin. He was just "oh yeah, that villain that USED TO be impressive and taken seriously, now just a joke for Z fillers and movie 12 today". Like "Freeza? That weak bitch?"

Gained even more respect for Freeza and finally found him charismatic with the Tournament of Power, where he learned to play nice if it suits his objectives rather than being a temper-child obsessed with instant vengance. Character growth that makes you go from "ugh! That outdated shit-guy again?" to "oh, Freeza, nice and stylish in his own way, with his strategic cunning ways, his clever thoroughly-thought-out plans".

I couldn't care less about Freeza back in Z/Kai and the original manga. He was just the main enemy when the characters were not yet what they were supposed to be. I respected him as a decent opponent with Resurrection 'F' despite still not liking his behavior. I grew to actually like him with the Tournament of Power and beyond.

Thank you Super for rehabilitating him, along with C-17 for example who also got a major overhaul in how interesting he can be. And also rehabiilitating Kame Sennin while we're at it, C-18 too, Piccolo, Gohan... I would say improving Bardack too, but it's actually Toriyama himself who did it in the first place, though the Super manga kept improving on him in non-anime material.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Just making me respect Freeza as someone being able to be a threat in the current state of things was enough of a plot.

This would've been fine had we gone on that journey with him, the problem is we didn't. What's worse, he still got his behind kicked by both Goku and Vegeta. A far better story would've been Goku himself bringing him back to life to help against a new threat that only Freeza could help with, only for him to play both parties against each other while he secretly got stronger in the background. Basically the tournament of power but on a smaller scale. Also, don't bring him back just to kill him again.

Gained even more respect for Freeza and finally found him charismatic with the Tournament of Power, where he learned to play nice if it suits his objectives rather than being a temper-child obsessed with instant vengance.

Now this I can agree with, his handling in the tournament was very good, as we got to see him manipulate everyone for his own goals. It's a shame the very next time we saw him he was worrying about his height. Talk about killing momentum.

[ScouterSSJ]

That’s not character development

It totally is. We go from an overconfident Frieza that had never trained in his life to one that would start to work his ass, and from a Frieza that threw his fight against Goku due to his overconfidence to one that not only took into account the fact that he could lose, but even devised an emergency plan in cas that happened.

So yeah, its more and better character development than everything the Toei has attempted to do on their own...

[Grimlock]

I don't think Toei ever and even attempted to make a character development for Freeza in Movie 12. That was not what that movie was about. He just showed up and was easily killed off because at that point in time the good guys were strong enough to deal with any villains from years, decades ago. And because he wasn't the main villain in that movie (thank Dende!).

No amount of modern nonsense will or can change this very well established notion (assuming there's indeed something official going on about this, it could be fans misinterpreting stuff, as is often the case).

[ScouterSSJ]

I don't think Toei ever and even attempted to make a character development for Freeza in Movie 12. That was not what that movie was about. He just showed up and was easily killed off because at that point in time the good guys were strong enough to deal with any villains from years, decades ago.

No amount of modern nonsense will or can change this very well established notion (assuming there's indeed something official going on about this, it could be fans misinterpreting stuff, as is often the case).

I'm not speaking about Frieza. Broly had 3 movies from the Toei and he was the same bad joke in all 3 (in fact, the got worse).
Frieza had more (subtle, of course he wouldn't become good) character development than anything the Toei has ever done on their own.
Toriyama is simply on a whole different level.
Even in the DBS Broly movie (the best of them all) you can clearly see when the Toei incompetents added filler to the movie...

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

Dragon Ball productions should keep disrespecting the 1984-1995 Dragon Ball comic. They should swing for the fences more in general, not play it safe by trying to mimic Toriyama or by appealing to merchandising partners' exact restrictions.

The original Bardock TV special probably hits the closest to this type of thinking. Toriyama himself said that he didn't think he could make a story that bleak, and that if he were in charge he would want to throw in some humor.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball productions should keep disrespecting the 1984-1995 Dragon Ball comic. They should swing for the fences more in general, not play it safe by trying to mimic Toriyama or by appealing to merchandising partners' exact restrictions.

The original Bardock TV special probably hits the closest to this type of thinking. Toriyama himself said that he didn't think he could make a story that bleak, and that if he were in charge he would want to throw in some humor.

Yeah, exactly. Go bigger, break away, do what Toriyama wouldn't. Let writers and directors do their own thing. Bring in comic creators and novelists and game makers and let them do their own thing.

(Also, pay them to do original projects, too lol)

[SupremeKai25]

Yes, it is.

When you look at the broader fandom, both on popular networks like Reddit or Youtube, and IRL, it's clear that most people consider the "Holy Trinity" to be Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball Super. GT, like it or not, has gathered an infamous reputation as the "non-canon show that can be skipped."

Turns out that putting Toriyama's name on the cover of every modern Dragon Ball content resulted in people looking at Super the same way they look at the Original. The Broly Movie, the most successful Dragon Ball movie ever, was literally advertised as a "Canon continuation of the original manga."

Well, they put his name there because he indeed wrote that stuff, like he wrote the original arcs.

[Dbzfan94]

Original Dragon Ball, Z, and GT for me.

Daima is good but I’ll have to rewatch to see how my feelings really are and Super… not a chance lol.

[Captain Awesome]

For me it's Dragon Ball, Z and Daima.

There is a lot to like in Super (Beerus and Whis) but it's just so wildly variable. Daima while smaller in scope feels like a much better bookend to the original story to me.

[WittyUsername]

Is Daima even popular enough to be considered part of a “Holy Trinity” of Dragon Ball?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Is Daima even popular enough to be considered part of a “Holy Trinity” of Dragon Ball?

If we're going by popularity, then nothing comes close to Z and Super. Personally though, I think it's unfair to say there's a trinity when everything is so far below DB & Z in terms of actual quality. If I absolutely had to pick a 3rd series, then I'd go with Daima due to its lowest points just being boring, while Super and GT's lowest points were some of the worst written content the franchise had produced.