Should Dragon Ball's canon be reset?

[MasenkoHA]

A Dragon Ball remake would be marginally less unnecessary than that stupid HBO Harry Potter remake. In other words, it’s not really necessary at all, in my opinion.

There's a pretty wide gap between the two subjects. Toriyama didn't use his platform to loudly and directly influence political policy and media focus to demonize and strip the rights of trans people. He sat around his house building his little models and watching movies in his later-years. The Harry Potter television series exists for two reasons: profit for Warner Bros and relevancy and more money for JKR to spend harming minorities.

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

Meh you can make the argument a remake would be more accessible to a younger audience who has an allergy to “old stuff” as well as get rid of the problematic elements (but an adaptation getting rid of problematic stuff would probably also get rid of stuff that didn’t need to be taken out like the violence) . There is a significant portion of the fandom that refuses to engage in anything other than Kai and Super because the other stuff is “too old”’or “too long” and we’re starting to see an audience whose entire frame of reference for Dragon Ball is Goku being on Fortnite.

Do I think a Dragon Ball animated remake is necessary? Absolutely not. I think you either have to take the manga for what it is or you don’t. And obviously nobody is under any obligation to engage with or enjoy a silly kung fu comic from the 80s/90s or its animated adaptation. But there is arguably a point in remaking it.

[Yellow Flower King]

There's a pretty wide gap between the two subjects. Toriyama didn't use his platform to loudly and directly influence political policy and media focus to demonize and strip the rights of trans people. He sat around his house building his little models and watching movies in his later-years. The Harry Potter television series exists for two reasons: profit for Warner Bros and relevancy and more money for JKR to spend harming minorities.

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

Meh you can make the argument a remake would be more accessible to a younger audience who has an allergy to “old stuff” as well as get rid of the problematic elements (but an adaptation getting rid of problematic stuff would probably also get rid of stuff that didn’t need to be taken out like the violence) . There is a significant portion of the fandom that refuses to engage in anything other than Kai and Super because the other stuff is “too old”’or “too long” and we’re starting to see an audience whose entire frame of reference for Dragon Ball is Goku being on Fortnite.

Do I think a Dragon Ball animated remake is necessary? Absolutely not. I think you either have to take the manga for what it is or you don’t. And obviously nobody is under any obligation to engage with or enjoy a silly kung fu comic from the 80s/90s or its animated adaptation. But there is arguably a point in remaking it.

What makes you say that? Daima, for all its faults had a lot of great action and didnt feel like anything was missing or nerfed. Sure there is no blood, but there is no blood in Super either.

[MasenkoHA]

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

Meh you can make the argument a remake would be more accessible to a younger audience who has an allergy to “old stuff” as well as get rid of the problematic elements (but an adaptation getting rid of problematic stuff would probably also get rid of stuff that didn’t need to be taken out like the violence) . There is a significant portion of the fandom that refuses to engage in anything other than Kai and Super because the other stuff is “too old”’or “too long” and we’re starting to see an audience whose entire frame of reference for Dragon Ball is Goku being on Fortnite.

Do I think a Dragon Ball animated remake is necessary? Absolutely not. I think you either have to take the manga for what it is or you don’t. And obviously nobody is under any obligation to engage with or enjoy a silly kung fu comic from the 80s/90s or its animated adaptation. But there is arguably a point in remaking it.

What makes you say that? Daima, for all its faults had a lot of great action and didnt feel like anything was missing or nerfed. Sure there is no blood, but there is no blood in Super either.

Creating a series that didn’t have blood to begin with is an entirely different thing than adapting a comic that did have blood in it and taking it out.


Or put it this way Kai censoring some of the blood was a lot more noticeable and irritating than Super just not having it.

[WittyUsername]

There's a pretty wide gap between the two subjects. Toriyama didn't use his platform to loudly and directly influence political policy and media focus to demonize and strip the rights of trans people. He sat around his house building his little models and watching movies in his later-years. The Harry Potter television series exists for two reasons: profit for Warner Bros and relevancy and more money for JKR to spend harming minorities.

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

Meh you can make the argument a remake would be more accessible to a younger audience who has an allergy to “old stuff” as well as get rid of the problematic elements (but an adaptation getting rid of problematic stuff would probably also get rid of stuff that didn’t need to be taken out like the violence) . There is a significant portion of the fandom that refuses to engage in anything other than Kai and Super because the other stuff is “too old”’or “too long” and we’re starting to see an audience whose entire frame of reference for Dragon Ball is Goku being on Fortnite.

Do I think a Dragon Ball animated remake is necessary? Absolutely not. I think you either have to take the manga for what it is or you don’t. And obviously nobody is under any obligation to engage with or enjoy a silly kung fu comic from the 80s/90s or its animated adaptation. But there is arguably a point in remaking it.

Has Kai really eclipsed Z? I was under the impression that DBZ is still the more prominent show in the general zeitgeist.

[MasenkoHA]

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

Meh you can make the argument a remake would be more accessible to a younger audience who has an allergy to “old stuff” as well as get rid of the problematic elements (but an adaptation getting rid of problematic stuff would probably also get rid of stuff that didn’t need to be taken out like the violence) . There is a significant portion of the fandom that refuses to engage in anything other than Kai and Super because the other stuff is “too old”’or “too long” and we’re starting to see an audience whose entire frame of reference for Dragon Ball is Goku being on Fortnite.

Do I think a Dragon Ball animated remake is necessary? Absolutely not. I think you either have to take the manga for what it is or you don’t. And obviously nobody is under any obligation to engage with or enjoy a silly kung fu comic from the 80s/90s or its animated adaptation. But there is arguably a point in remaking it.

Has Kai really eclipsed Z? I was under the impression that DBZ is still the more prominent show in the general zeitgeist.

Overall? Sure Dragon Ball Z is way more popular. But based on perusing Reddit and what not there is definitely a significant portion of gen z who grew up with Kai on Nicktoons and/or Toonzai and have no interest in Z because it’s long and has too much filler. And that’s fine. People tend to like what they grew up with, I’m sure if I was born 10 years later and saw Kai on Not!KidsWb as an 8 year old there would be a decent chance that I would think it was better than Z or that Z was too long or something.

And again, to be clear, I don’t think there is any obligation for gen alpha to get into Dragon Ball but in the argument of “There is no point in remaking Dragon Ball” well Kai literally exists to sell old toys to kids who didn’t grow up with Dragon Ball Z in the 90s

[JulieYBM]

Sure. From a moral standpoint, the Harry Potter reboot is an outright abhorrent concept. Even independently of who Rowling is as a person though, the idea of rebooting Harry Potter as an HBO show sounds completely unnecessary and I can’t fathom why any Harry Potter fan would be excited about such a thing, unless they really want to see the “elves love being slaves” subplot get adapted.

When it comes to Dragon Ball, I don’t simply don’t see what purpose retelling the manga would serve. The original manga isn’t going anywhere and it’s not like the anime shows were some radical departure from the manga’s story.

I'm not going to litigate whether it's particularly necessary to create a new animated adaption of the 1984 comic, I'm specifically saying that your comparison is just a terrible one.

Outside of better animation and removing the filler, what would the appeal be?

Being watchable, being better than the comic. You can do literally anything to justify creating a new animated adaption.

I’m not sure that making an adaptation that tries to “improve” upon the manga would go over especially well. They could certainly tone down the gross pervertedness of the early parts of the manga, but then the new anime would run the risk of being seen as a “sanitized” version of the manga.

Putting aside not including the offensive shit, it's not like fans are going to look at the plot and go, "Oh no, they made the story more exciting and unpredictable by using their foreknowledge of future events in the story!"

Talented directors and writers who are better than Toriyama is a writer do, in fact, exist!

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think Dragon Ball needs a reset. We are fine where it is now.

[JulieYBM]

You should all watch the films of Gregg Araki.

This has nothing to do with Dragon Ball, I just want to get more eyeballs on his work.

[Hellspawn28]

You should all watch the films of Gregg Araki.

I have seen all of his films.

[miguelnuva1]

If they ever reset Dragonball they should really go for something different. Just for example maybe Goku marries Bulma and they have daughter named Bra when the saiyans arrive in Z. Maybe Goku is the exiled prince of saiyans sent to Earth because he was weak and Vegeta was a super elite born from a noble family that looked down on the royal family marrying commoners.

Not saying they should do any of these ideas just saying if they want to do a rest go for it. Like an Ultimate or Absloute Dragonball for those that read Marvel and DC.

[SupremeKai25]

No, it shouldn't. Super is widely considered by the fandom to be the successor of Z, and is the sequel with the most content put into it. Super has cemented itself as the continuation of Z, and it is most certainly doing a worthy job at that. Ultra Instinct is nearly becoming as popular as the original Super Saiyan on the internet.

It's really not that confusing for the wider fandom. Sure, GT and Daima have their fans, but Super is still widely considered to be the main ongoing product.

Why exactly does this franchise need a "reset"? It's in a perfect position right now, ready for new content while maintaing firm roots to its past. Legacy characters like Goku, Vegeta, and Broly continue to be main actors, and now all we need to do is wait for Toei/Toyotaro to come up with new stories.

[tonysoprano300]

No I dont think so, I think if they wanna tell fresh new stories they absolutely can, to me the solution would be to have the series take place in a different era like "A Heroes Legacy" did. If your asking on an artistic level, I think thats the right decision. If we're speaking practically on what a studio would actually do then I think the most likely course of action is continuing the Goku&Vegeta show. I mean lets be honest, DB has already transitioned into being this episodic styled structure since Super Began so realistically their set for the next 20 years if they want.

[JulieYBM]

I'm going to get on my broken record again, but those opening exhibition and recruitment episodes of the Tournament of Power are the best formula to follow for future stories. There were character arcs and plan actually being laid and personal stakes actually being attempted for the characters and they're just such a fun set of episodes that are literally only let down by the series' awful production and character designs.

[Jord]

I think that with the HBO Potter series there is a chance to be more faithful to the books, since the movies were basically condensed versions of the books with variations in them. Plus, the Potter brand remains amazingly popular of course, which is in incentive.
When you think of it, it truly is incredible how a world created by a single woman keeps on inspiring children around the world. Massive respect for JK's perseverance after getting rejected so many times for her first book.

When we look at DB, there isn't much meat on the bone regarding a more faithful adaptation. Sure, the anime changed minor things (and added a lot) but a new show wouldn't necessarily be better if it tries to follow the manga more closely. DB already has a fairly good pacing so that isn't the problem either.

[SaiyamanMS]

I think if anything needs to happen is one of 2.

1-Readapted Manga
2-FINALLY LETTING DRAGON BALL REST.

If it is not one of these, I dont care.

This is exactly my opinion.

Dragon Ball the comic is timeless and holds up today just as well as it did 30-40 years ago. Dragon Ball the animated series is great and does the job well enough, but it is definitely a product of its time.

A fresh adaptation of the comic could look so much better than the 1986-1996 adaptation (the recap at the start of Super Hero was absolutely gorgeous, as was the animation of Daima, and I’d love to have the whole series look that good), in addition to being able to fix the awful pacing of the original series. (That latter point was already addressed by Kai for the latter half of the series, but still.)

Akira Toriyama was the soul of Dragon Ball, and I have little to no interest in the continuation of the series with new stories without his involvement.

[Yuji]

Isn't it already, in part?

The original manga is untouchable. But we have several post-Boo stories and continuations that all conflict with each other across several mediums: GT, Super manga, Super anime, Super movies, Daima, Neko Majin, Xenoverse, Heroes, DB Online. Sure, they all borrow elements from each other but have fundamentally different plots, tone, lore, etc.

[JulieYBM]

I think that with the HBO Potter series there is a chance to be more faithful to the books, since the movies were basically condensed versions of the books with variations in them. Plus, the Potter brand remains amazingly popular of course, which is in incentive.
When you think of it, it truly is incredible how a world created by a single woman keeps on inspiring children around the world. Massive respect for JK's perseverance after getting rejected so many times for her first book.

When we look at DB, there isn't much meat on the bone regarding a more faithful adaptation. Sure, the anime changed minor things (and added a lot) but a new show wouldn't necessarily be better if it tries to follow the manga more closely. DB already has a fairly good pacing so that isn't the problem either.

You mean more chances to be misogynistic, racist and antisemitic? This television series exists purely to make money for one of the worst pieces of shit alive, not to inspire children and not to create more faithful art.

There's a reason why so many of those involved with the original films want nothing to do with Rowling: she’s literally using her wealth to inact legislation to harm trans women and funding hate groups to try and inact social change to demonize trans women to then inact *more* legislative change to remove trans women from life.

Women in the UK I can about are harmed by this shit—to say nothing of how there's a effect on US policy, too—so let's stop it with the false attempts at buttering the cunt up.

[MasenkoHA]

I think that with the HBO Potter series there is a chance to be more faithful to the books, since the movies were basically condensed versions of the books with variations in them. Plus, the Potter brand remains amazingly popular of course, which is in incentive.
When you think of it, it truly is incredible how a world created by a single woman keeps on inspiring children around the world. Massive respect for JK's perseverance after getting rejected so many times for her first book.

When we look at DB, there isn't much meat on the bone regarding a more faithful adaptation. Sure, the anime changed minor things (and added a lot) but a new show wouldn't necessarily be better if it tries to follow the manga more closely. DB already has a fairly good pacing so that isn't the problem either.

You mean more chances to be misogynistic, racist and antisemitic? This television series exists purely to make money for one of the worst pieces of shit alive, not to inspire children and not to create more faithful art.

Some of have also speculated she’s using the tv series to push the trio from the films out since they have gone on record they don’t support her views. Which let’s be fucking for real the people who care enough to watch this thing are gonna compare it unfavorably to the movies regardless. The movies aren’t going anywhere. I know a lot of people who just watched the movies and only read some if any of the books


Also can we talk about this whole “got a whole generation of kids on reading” thing. Because that line worked in the early 2000s but now we know most of those Potterhead kids went on to read uhh literally nothing else but Harry Potter with maybe some of them going on to read other similar YA fiction like Twilight and Hunger Games. Saying these Harry Potter adults are readers is like saying Disney adults are animation fans or MCU fans are film fans. Does it really count if they only engage in one specific brand?

And obligatory “let people enjoy things” (unless that thing they’re enjoying is hurting others) but again let’s be for real how successful Harry Potter actually was in turning kids into readers even if we remove the transphobe from the equation

[JulieYBM]

I think that with the HBO Potter series there is a chance to be more faithful to the books, since the movies were basically condensed versions of the books with variations in them. Plus, the Potter brand remains amazingly popular of course, which is in incentive.
When you think of it, it truly is incredible how a world created by a single woman keeps on inspiring children around the world. Massive respect for JK's perseverance after getting rejected so many times for her first book.

When we look at DB, there isn't much meat on the bone regarding a more faithful adaptation. Sure, the anime changed minor things (and added a lot) but a new show wouldn't necessarily be better if it tries to follow the manga more closely. DB already has a fairly good pacing so that isn't the problem either.

You mean more chances to be misogynistic, racist and antisemitic? This television series exists purely to make money for one of the worst pieces of shit alive, not to inspire children and not to create more faithful art.

Some of has also speculated she’s using the tv series to push the trio from the films out since they have gone on record they don’t support her view. Which let’s be fucking for real the people who care enough to watch this thing are gonna compare it unfavorably to the movies regardless. The movies aren’t going anywhere. I know a lot of people who just watched the movies and only read some if any of the books


Also can we talk about this whole “got a whole generation of kids on reading” thing. Because that line worked in the early 2000s but now we know most of those Potterhead kids went on to read uhh literally nothing else but Harry Potter with maybe some of them going on to read other similar YA fiction like Twilight and Hunger Games. Saying these Harry Potter adults are readers is like saying Disney adults are animation fans or MCU fans are film fans. Does it really count if they only engage in one specific brand?

And obligatory “let people enjoy things” (unless that thing they’re enjoying is hurting others) but again let’s be for real how successful Harry Potter actually was in turning kids into readers even if we remove the transphobe from the equation

Yeah, a big part of this series is also to just spite the main trio from the original films for speaking out against her transphobia. And just to underscore for others: Transphobia with material harm being done in reality!

I never got into HP because of Satanic Panic nonsense and a general lack of interest in the subject. I do think that the fandom's general lack of desire to engage with the reality of its creator's harmful actions is really indicative of their lack of desire to engage with the text or move on from their nostalgia-based attachment to the series.

It's the same sort of insidious shit that afflicts Star Wars fans and MCU fans—or fans of big properties in general. They don't want to engage with the text and what it says about reality, because they've been nurtured to not engage with reality in general. This is how people are kept separated and unable to understand their lives and how they are being influenced negatively.

[Hellspawn28]

I think DB needs a rest overall. With Toriyama gone, new stuff feels pointless.