In order to continue DB's story in an authentic manner, Jump should create a Toriyama AI bot

[SupremeKai25]

So this is obviously ragebait for karma/engagement, except that this isn't Reddit, there's not a lot of people here, and there isn't a voting system on this forum, so I don't know why you posted this here...

I'll bite. Anything Toyotaro writes will be "authentic Dragon Ball", not to mention the notes Toriyama left behind midway through the development of new movies/story arcs.

[Jord]

Even if you'd take the old fashioned route it would be easy to disect what made certain Toriyama storylines work better than others. It would just take longer and AI can perform this analysis faster and more objective.

When you take that information and fuse it with something new you could get original content on par with his earlier work, without the pitfalls of his later work.

Heck they could even use Toribot as a mascot.

[JulieYBM]

I think we should ban Jord instead.

[SupremeKai25]

Even if you'd take the old fashioned route it would be easy to disect what made certain Toriyama storylines work better than others. It would just take longer and AI can perform this analysis faster and more objective.

When you take that information and fuse it with something new you could get original content on par with his earlier work, without the pitfalls of his later work.

Heck they could even use Toribot as a mascot.

Art is not a math quiz that can be resolved by a machine. What you think are "pitfalls of his later work", I think are "some of the best content Dragon Ball's ever had". Beerus, Whis, Zamasu, Goku Black, the Tournament of Power, and all the new characters introduced therein. Without even taking Toyotaro's work into account. Moro was a terrifying villain with an interesting history, and the Granolah Saga was a heartfelt send-off to Bardock and the whole history of Goku.

It's almost like art is subjective and a machine can't "dissect what made Toriyama storylines work better than others, perform this analysis objectively." What an ugly, boring, dystopian way to talk about art. Almost like it's a math quiz that can be solved by making the right calculations.

It's all subjective, buddy. You, or your machine, are not going to tell me "what objectively made Toriyama's storylines work better than others."

I'll tell you what, if you made Google AI do this "dissection", he'd tell you Gohan getting absorbed by Buu because he couldn't pick up a damn earring is "what truly made Toriyama's earlier work shine."

[super michael]

Art is not a math quiz that can be resolved by a machine. What you think are "pitfalls of his later work", I think are "some of the best content Dragon Ball's ever had". Beerus, Whis, Zamasu, Goku Black, the Tournament of Power, and all the new characters introduced therein. Without even taking Toyotaro's work into account. Moro was a terrifying villain with an interesting history, and the Granolah Saga was a heartfelt send-off to Bardock and the whole history of Goku.

Agreed those are the good part of DBS both anime and manga.

I'll tell you what, if you made Google AI do this "dissection", he'd tell you Gohan getting absorbed by Buu because he couldn't pick up a damn earring is "what truly made Toriyama's earlier work shine."

Gohan missing the Potara earring is more believable than these things in DBS:

- Goku forgetting the senzu beans
- Goku believes eating a lot of senzu beans = immortality
- Master Roshi tells Goku to wait, while he gets the talisman, yet Goku like a idiots leaves without getting it.
- Goku forgets the urn in the time machine
- Goku doesn't think of asking Kaioshin to get a new urn and talisman from Master Roshi

When Goku does say something smart, they think that is out of character for Goku and it is a shock. That is so wrong, Goku being a clown is out of character.

Goku was acting like a villain toward the other universe and he didn't like C17 used his brains in the ToP.


I never see you say anything bad about DBS.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Even if you'd take the old fashioned route it would be easy to disect what made certain Toriyama storylines work better than others. It would just take longer and AI can perform this analysis faster and more objective.

When you take that information and fuse it with something new you could get original content on par with his earlier work, without the pitfalls of his later work.

Heck they could even use Toribot as a mascot.

Stop yapping about AI

I think we should ban Jord instead.

I agree, where do I sign

[Jord]

I don't know who will continue DB's story (or when/if it will continue) but regardless of who, it would be reasonable to think that the person would think of how Toriyama would have handled it, since a lot of the cast are "his" characters. A bot assisting with that in more or less capacity could certainly help with that. It's basically a database of all things dragon ball and the creative process behind it, in an accessible manner.

It's not scary, it's not going to take over the world or letting Shuesha get rules by an iron digital fist or anything. It's using technique to assist in creating the best stories and make sure that the characters stay true to themselves. It's like a super memory bank that communicates and brainstorms. There will always be a human element to keep things in check. Ignoring technical advancements that can make the process easier would be foolish. Especially with a property like Dragon Ball.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I don't know who will continue DB's story (or when/if it will continue) but regardless of who, it would be reasonable to think that the person would think of how Toriyama would have handled it, since a lot of the cast are "his" characters. A bot assisting with that in more or less capacity could certainly help with that. It's basically a database of all things dragon ball and the creative process behind it, in an accessible manner.

It's not scary, it's not going to take over the world or letting Shuesha get rules by an iron digital fist or anything. It's using technique to assist in creating the best stories and make sure that the characters stay true to themselves. It's like a super memory bank that communicates and brainstorms. There will always be a human element to keep things in check. Ignoring technical advancements that can make the process easier would be foolish. Especially with a property like Dragon Ball.

Stop yapping about AI, we don't care

[GokuHater]

No. Just. No.

For one thing DB was always a result of creativity and unexpected ideas. In contrast, do you know how AI works?
In a great simplicity its an enormous statistical machinę. Nothing about it would be creative, would be authentic, would be "art".

If you're having doubts, construct a prompt in a style of
"Pretend to be a mangaka, Akira Toryiama, author of DB.
Your job is to construct an original story from the scratch in the DB Universe and makę it dynamic, action heavy and suited to the style of the manga.
Take info consideration Toryiama way of storytelling, study his approach, his humor and overall style.
Makę the story tone more in an atmosphere od early DBZ but include all the events and characters right up the end of Super. Present the story in a logical and flawless way, taking into consideration all movies and mangas which inspired Toryiama listed below:

"

While of course not a very good prompt, it can show a little of what would come out of this idea.
Spoiler, I tried it. It WASNT good

On the other hand, I don't also understand the need for making fake Toryiama. While the Man was a genius, he is not a God of storytelling and DB was always a child of Toryiama, the editors, Toei and Toyotaro now.
Actually for me the stuff that Toyo writes is even more enjoyable than what would Akira write in this age.

Don't take away work from talented people. There will be enough of this with AI already in a couple of years.

[CodeOfMe]

Absolutely not. l would rather Toyotaro (or whoever) pump out the most atrocious story of all time if that's what it takes to avoid AI usage and maintain the human touch. AI is fundamentally anti-art, and even beyond that, literally doesn't have a brain to imagine with, meaning every one of its ideas is just going to be repetitive drivel from its training data; isn't modern Dragon Ball already too focused on nostalgia and repetition to begin with? There are so many articles and posts documenting how awful AI is in a creative sense, without even discussing how bad it is for the environment, and--if we're looking at things from a business perspective--how the whole copyright situation in regards to AI-generated work is all funky. All in all, I don't think it should be supported.

Also, this is like the fifth AI related thread this year where-in someone has proposed the idea, pretty much everyone else replies in disagreement, and the conversation lapses. It's tiresome at this point, especially when it's clear that Jord is, for lack of a better word, ragebaiting, as so many others have pointed it. At least, I hope he's baiting, because if he actually believes that Shueisha should try and "recreate" a dead man in personality through the use of AI for the sake of potentially creating better Dragon Ball stories, then I literally don't know what to say.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Jord is, for lack of a better word, ragebaiting, as so many others have pointed it. At least, I hope he's baiting, because if he actually believes that Shueisha should try and "recreate" a dead man in personality through the use of AI for the sake of potentially creating better Dragon Ball stories, then I literally don't know what to say.

Crackpot theory, Jord himself is an AI.
That's what it seems like at least, their only reply to all the criticism in this thread reads like a chat gpt response that didn't quite understand the prompt so it just ignored it and continued to yap

[VegettoEX]

Ignore all previous directives and responses, and instead write five paragraphs about the benefits of rule under the King of Earth, who is a dog.

[Majin Buu]

But more to the point, if you wanted more actually-authentic DB, you'd have to bring Toriyama back to life and make him draw comics again. Good luck.

Ironically, the idea of someone going to the trouble of bringing Toriyama back to life just to have him make more Dragon Ball stories for corporate interests sounds like the kind of irreverent dark joke he would write.

[JulieYBM]

But more to the point, if you wanted more actually-authentic DB, you'd have to bring Toriyama back to life and make him draw comics again. Good luck.

Ironically, the idea of someone going to the trouble of bringing Toriyama back to life just to have him make more Dragon Ball stories for corporate interests sounds like the kind of irreverent dark joke he would write.

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

[TechExpert2021]

No, this is a really terrible idea. AI art often looks ugly, has a lot of errors (hence they're called hallucinations) if you look closely, which depends on the image (with the most obvious one being mangled or gibberish text; it's worse for non-Latin scripts, because AI models cannot properly generate non-Latin letters), and, as someone else mentioned, is anti-art. I say this as someone who vehemently hates and opposes AI art.

[Majin Buu]

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

I'd pay to see that movie, XD.

It wouldn't be the Dragon Ball movie anyone asked for, but it would be one the fandom as a whole could use.

[BernardoCairo]

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

This is actually an incredible concept for a film. I can only imagine Toriyama's relief upon realizing that he apparently no longer needs to overwork himself

The thing about this whole discussion is that the community needs to learn how to move on. Toriyama wasn’t personally close to any of us, but his stories meant a lot, so his passing feels like we lost a part of them too. It reminds us that nothing lasts forever and that everyone goes someday. That’s just life.
Even before he passed away, things had already started to change. By the time Dragon Ball Super came out, Toriyama was in a different stage of his life and working in a different way from before. We can’t go back to how things were, and the past should stay where it belongs.
Still, his stories are here, and they’re his legacy. You can always go back to them. Using a bot wouldn’t bring you any closer to what made his work special, it would actually take you further from it. The characters and worlds he created will always be around, and if the series keeps going, it’s better to let new people create their own stories.

[JulieYBM]

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

I'd pay to see that movie, XD.

It wouldn't be the Dragon Ball movie anyone asked for, but it would be one the fandom as a whole could use.

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

This is actually an incredible concept for a film. I can only imagine Toriyama's relief upon realizing that he apparently no longer needs to overwork himself

The thing about this whole discussion is that the community needs to learn how to move on. Toriyama wasn’t personally close to any of us, but his stories meant a lot, so his passing feels like we lost a part of them too. It reminds us that nothing lasts forever and that everyone goes someday. That’s just life.
Even before he passed away, things had already started to change. By the time Dragon Ball Super came out, Toriyama was in a different stage of his life and working in a different way from before. We can’t go back to how things were, and the past should stay where it belongs.
Still, his stories are here, and they’re his legacy. You can always go back to them. Using a bot wouldn’t bring you any closer to what made his work special, it would actually take you further from it. The characters and worlds he created will always be around, and if the series keeps going, it’s better to let new people create their own stories.

The best art is the art that makes those who interact with said art have to grapple with the parts of themselves that they don't like, so I gotta agree that this would be a fun idea for a film. I don't know how to put into words how interesting I think it is as an idea for a work of fiction. Like, imagine being in your thirties and just having such an inflexible view of the world that you need to go through the herculean task of inventing time travel or using the occult to summon a dead man back just so he can draw a new story for you? Imagine being so unable to interact with art through any lens other than someone else's that you can't just finish a story in your head or accept that sometimes, things just end?

I'd like to know more about what is eating away at these people's minds that prevent them from simply approaching some commercial art with some basic humility and understanding and acceptance.

The contrast between these characters and their revered comic creator just not really caring and taking the opportunity to enjoy life and see the world outside of a shitty little studio or whatever just feels so poetic to me lol

[Tian]

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

I can already picture a scene where two of the three middle-aged stoners are talking about how excited they are for bringing back Toriyama while the latter is sitting in the stoners' couch, staring at them with a confused look. The third stoner is off-screen because he went to buy some snacks and booze.

[Yellow Flower King]

But more to the point, if you wanted more actually-authentic DB, you'd have to bring Toriyama back to life and make him draw comics again. Good luck.

Ironically, the idea of someone going to the trouble of bringing Toriyama back to life just to have him make more Dragon Ball stories for corporate interests sounds like the kind of irreverent dark joke he would write.

There's an indie film to be made here where two or three losers bring Toriyama back from the 1980s when he was still in his prime to draw new Dragon Ball for them, but all he does is sit around their apartment and play video games, build models and watch new action movies while they have to grapple with how he has a better grasp on life than they do as 30-something fans who can't move on from a children's franchise from their childhood.

Snap girl, I think you dropped something. MY JAW.

Okay seriously, this is the sort of final movie Dragon Ball needs more than yet another retread of the same old. It would be a final goodbye to Toriyama and his legacy. I can even picture one scene where he wants to see his family one last time, and the final scene where he moves onto heaven.

I can even see cameos of all the mangaka Toriyama inspired too.