General DragonBall Theories

[Casual Matt]

Also, after Goku figured it out he was able to teach everyone else. And Goten and Trunks were born after Vegeta and Goku went SSJ, so I assume it got passed down to them in some way.

That's the big theory I have about the series. That Super Saiyajin is hereditary. Even if it goes by the (actually false) idea of inheritence of acquired characteristics. But applying real world biology doesn't work with Dragon Ball. Nor does much else.

[Acid_Reign]

That's the big theory I have about the series. That Super Saiyajin is hereditary. Even if it goes by the (actually false) idea of inheritence of acquired characteristics. But applying real world biology doesn't work with Dragon Ball. Nor does much else.

I've always hated that. "Real world [whatever] doesn't work in [fantasy world]." It's more of a cop-out than any actual explanation of things. I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that the Dragon Ball universe is exactly like our our own, the only differences being Ki, vastly different species, and more advanced technology. None of that changes elementary biology or physics. It is evident that traits get passed down from parent to child the same way they do here: Gohan's having a tail despite being only half-Saiyan is proof of this.

And if Super Saiyan is hereditary, Gohan never could have reached it, because he was born long before Goku became one. And how would Goku, in turn, become one himself? Bardock would have to have had it, but we all know he didn't.

I'm also interested in what you meant by "inheritance of acquired characteristics" being false. What proof is there of that?

[Conan the SSJ]

I'd think Trunks would be conceived before Vegeta left Earth for his space training, where he subsequently transformed. I mean, are we supposed to believe that a year and 9 months before the Androids showed, Vegeta's already gone SSJ and head back to Earth for a celebrating booty call? Well, I guess that might be in Vegeta's character since he just achieved his dream in life. >>;;

[Kaboom]

I'd think Trunks would be conceived before Vegeta left Earth for his space training, where he subsequently transformed. I mean, are we supposed to believe that a year and 9 months before the Androids showed, Vegeta's already gone SSJ and head back to Earth for a celebrating booty call? Well, I guess that might be in Vegeta's character since he just achieved his dream in life. >>;;

Vegeta's power against the Androids kinda supports him having the stage for a while, anyway. He was at least as good with the stage and as powerful as Goku when the Androids showed up.

[Rocketman]

I'm also interested in what you meant by "inheritance of acquired characteristics" being false. What proof is there of that?

If your arm is cut off, then you have a kid, the kid will have both arms. That disproves "inheritance of acquired characteristics".

I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that the Dragon Ball universe is exactly like our our own, the only differences being Ki, vastly different species, and more advanced technology. None of that changes elementary biology or physics

Physics is totally messed up, as the DB Moon shows. Biology is messed up, since Saiyans and Humans are having fertile children.

[Acid_Reign]

If your arm is cut off, then you have a kid, the kid will have both arms. That disproves "inheritance of acquired characteristics".

If one's genes were mutated I'd be hard-pressed to believe that his or her baby, born afterward, would be completely unaffected. "Acquired characteristics" is much too broad a term to be taken as some sort of established truth.

Physics is totally messed up, as the DB Moon shows. Biology is messed up, since Saiyans and Humans are having fertile children.

What in particular about the moon are you talking about? And there is indeed such a thing as fertile hybrids; beefalo being one example.

[Casual Matt]

If your arm is cut off, then you have a kid, the kid will have both arms. That disproves "inheritance of acquired characteristics".

If one's genes were mutated I'd be hard-pressed to believe that his or her baby, born afterward, would be completely unaffected. "Acquired characteristics" is much too broad a term to be taken as some sort of established truth.

Mutation doesn't count in this definition as acquired trait, and it does account for much of the evolution that occurs in actuality. Furthermore, acquired traits in the sense of Lamark's theory do not affect the genome, and by current biological explanations, since the genome is the only thing passed on to the offspring, traits that one obtains throughout his life cannot be passed on to offspring.

Also, somewhat in contradiction to what I said earlier, there can be a reasonable explanation for Super Saiyajin being passed on if you consider that it actually mutates the genome.

[Thanos]

That's the big theory I have about the series. That Super Saiyajin is hereditary. ...

Highly unlikely, as ALL Saiya-jin in the series (let's not count GT) that have reached the strength required to make the transformation have indeed become Supers.

[Acid_Reign]

Mutation doesn't count in this definition as acquired trait, and it does account for much of the evolution that occurs in actuality. Furthermore, acquired traits in the sense of Lamark's theory do not affect the genome, and by current biological explanations, since the genome is the only thing passed on to the offspring, traits that one obtains throughout his life cannot be passed on to offspring.

Why doesn't it count? If you're talking about something physical that happens to you, it still applies.

Also, somewhat in contradiction to what I said earlier, there can be a reasonable explanation for Super Saiyajin being passed on if you consider that it actually mutates the genome.

What mutates it? The act of turning Super Saiyan? That doesn't make any sense, because if the gene weren't present to begin with it would have been impossible. If it's an environmental factor, which is possible (though I really don't understand your stance on it) it would've had to have happened in the exact same way to Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Trunks, which, considering the varying conditions in which they all first turned SS, is fallible.

[Casual Matt]

I'm just laying out the definitions here. I'm pretty sure an acquired trait doesn't affect genetic structure. Something that does is considered a mutation.

And IF Super Saiyajin is hereditary, the initial transformation must trigger some change or mutation in the genome.

[Rocketman]

If one's genes were mutated I'd be hard-pressed to believe that his or her baby, born afterward, would be completely unaffected. "Acquired characteristics" is much too broad a term to be taken as some sort of established truth.

It's not a broad term in biology. It specifically refers to that theory. Mutations aren't part of that theory.

What in particular about the moon are you talking about?

If the Moon was really as close as it's shown in DB, it'd be raising tides as high as the Empire State Building.

The Moon also distorts the Earth into a slight oval shape. If the Moon were removed, the Earth would snap back to a more spherical shape, causing apocalyptic earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Then there's the millions of tons of former Moonrock raining down on Earth, exterminating pretty much anything bigger than a bacteria.

And there is indeed such a thing as fertile hybrids; beefalo being one example.

Yeah, but Saiyans aren't even from Earth.

[Acid_Reign]

It's not a broad term in biology. It specifically refers to that theory. Mutations aren't part of that theory.

I honestly had no idea that TLMR was referring to any theory in particular until he mentioned Lamarck. But that's really not the point. Mutations may not apply to that theory, but they still apply to the potential of environmental factors influencing the species in question. And, as I take it, TLMR has adapted his original theory as a result, even if it still doesn't make any sense.

If the Moon was really as close as it's shown in DB, it'd be raising tides as high as the Empire State Building.

The Moon also distorts the Earth into a slight oval shape. If the Moon were removed, the Earth would snap back to a more spherical shape, causing apocalyptic earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Then there's the millions of tons of former Moonrock raining down on Earth, exterminating pretty much anything bigger than a bacteria.

I'm no physicist, but some food for thought is that we don't know exactly how much gravitational mass DB's moon has. It could conceivably be much lighter than ours. If that's the case, it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect on the tides, and the rocks could be light enough to get caught in the earth's gravitational field...if they even went that way. Depending on how and when the blast hit, they might not even have gone Earth's way at all.

Even if none of that is conceivably possible, take into account the Physical discrepancies and you still have a world that emulates what happens here. Goku tosses a dragon ball into the air; it comes back down for him to catch. Krillin skips a rock across the ocean; it behaves how anyone here would expect a rock to skip.

Yeah, but Saiyans aren't even from Earth.

Seeing as Saiyans look and act just like humans, and apparently even speak Japanese, I am willing to bet that there are enough similarities for them to breed successfully. We don't even know DB's evolutionary history. There are a multitude of untold stories that could explain some past link between Humans and Saiyans; maybe a common ape-like ancestor. Who knows.

[Rocketman]

I'm no physicist, but some food for thought is that we don't know exactly how much gravitational mass DB's moon has. It could conceivably be much lighter than ours.

Except it has an oxygen-rich atmosphere which means it's at least as massive as Mars. And has plant life.

the rocks could be light enough to get caught in the earth's gravitational field...if they even went that way. Depending on how and when the blast hit, they might not even have gone Earth's way at all.

The rocks are already caught by Earth's gravity. That's why the Moon orbits - it's in Earth's gravity well.

Also, it doesn't matter where the blast hit. If the Moon explodes, at least half is getting thrown straight into the Earth. Anything that doesn't will become a ring.

Seeing as Saiyans look and act just like humans, and apparently even speak Japanese, I am willing to bet that there are enough similarities for them to breed successfully. We don't even know DB's evolutionary history. There are a multitude of untold stories that could explain some past link between Humans and Saiyans; maybe a common ape-like ancestor. Who knows.

Humans and Apes on our Earth have a common ape-like ancestor. They can't interbreed.

[Mr.Piccolo]

Okay, okay..! Toriyama didn't do this story in hopes of discussions like this. Come on: Dr. Slump...
How about this for a theory: Toriyama leaving us with plotholes for discussions like this?
-Rick

[Acid_Reign]

Except it has an oxygen-rich atmosphere which means it's at least as massive as Mars. And has plant life.

Wait a minute, an oxygen-rich atmosphere? Am I reading that right? I understand the moon has oxygen in its rocks, but it certainly isn't directly breathable.

The rocks are already caught by Earth's gravity. That's why the Moon orbits - it's in Earth's gravity well.

Also, it doesn't matter where the blast hit. If the Moon explodes, at least half is getting thrown straight into the Earth. Anything that doesn't will become a ring.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense actually. (And it's rather obvious too...my thinking must be off today >_<) But as I said, even if the physics are that off, you still have a world that works the same as ours on the surface.

Humans and Apes on our Earth have a common ape-like ancestor. They can't interbreed.

Somehow I don't believe it's ever really been attempted... :P

[Rocketman]

Wait a minute, an oxygen-rich atmosphere? Am I reading that right? I understand the moon has oxygen in its rocks, but it certainly isn't directly breathable.

The rabbit gang was put on the Moon, remember?

Ah, yeah, that makes sense actually. (And it's rather obvious too...my thinking must be off today >_<) But as I said, even if the physics are that off, you still have a world that works the same as ours on the surface.

Well then we're getting into medieval-type cosmos views.

Somehow I don't believe it's ever really been attempted...

AIDS had to come from somewhere.

Also, Spring Break's started. I won't be able to reply for about 9 days or so. See y'all.

[mister yummy]

The moon in Dragonball is a lot lighter, a lot closer to earth, and has an atmosphere capable of supporting anthromorphic-rabbit and human life. It's also probably hollow.