Dub Preferations

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:25 am

PsyLiam wrote:The censorship had nothing to do with the Ocean Group OR Funi...it was due to Saban, who were the distributors of the show in the US originally. They forced most of the changed. The fact that things got better when FUNi started doing the voices was mainly because they were now making the episodes for Cartoon Network, who had much looser censorship rules.

And as for what the "bloody hell" is wrong with some of the censorship...would you be happy with letting your 4 year old son watch a cartoon where people get decapitated, have holes punched through their chests, and where small children are brutally murdered in cold blood? Some of it may have been a bit extreme, but considering the timeslot the show was on, and who it was aimed at, it's hardly surprising. But that's another topic...

I don't expect the series to be purely uncut. If I was a father, I wouldn't want my young kids seeing DBZ in it's uncut form. But back when the Fusion Saga was released in the UK, we got the FUNi version rather than the Ocean version. After about two or three month it sudenly switched to the Ocean version on one of it's many run throughs. Though I didn't watch the Ocean eps straight away, I did catch them at a later date. In the FUNi version, when Super Buu releases his attack to kill all the humans, we actually see the attack kill humans. In the Ocean version, we just see the attack appearing in the sky above a city (it has however been a while since I last saw a large portion of DBZ). Later when Gohan is being beaten up by Gotenks Buu, Mr. Satan pulls out a gun. In the FUNi version, he aims at Buu, closes his eyes, appologises (sp?) to Buu for what he's about to do and fires, just when Goku appears and uses an enrgy disk to cut Buu in two. Mr. Satan opens his eyes, sees Buu in two halves and curses his strength. The bit where Mr. Satan aims and fires is cut out of the Ocean version. I'm sure there are more examples of incidences where FUNi shows more than Ocean, so can I ask why the hell FUNi is allows to show them but Ocean isn't?

But that's just my opinion, thoughts and preferences.

snen wrote:That's true.. But in the last few episodes of DBZ there's even nakedness and stuff A big step there..

That makes even less sense! Why couldn't the censors have been the same (but with less nakedness)

Blue Water *foams at the mouth* Their GT voices made GT almost unwatchable - even more than it was already *not a GT fan*. Their voices for Chibi Goku, Vegeta and Pan made me watch it on mute half the time.

The only good Ocean GT voice was adult/SSJ4 Goku.

snen · Post by **snen** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:32 am

Caracal wrote:
snen wrote:That's true.. But in the last few episodes of DBZ there's even nakedness and stuff A big step there..
That makes even less sense! Why couldn't the censors have been the same (but with less nakedness)

Blue Water *foams at the mouth* Their GT voices made GT almost unwatchable - even more than it was already *not a GT fan*. Their voices for Chibi Goku, Vegeta and Pan made me watch it on mute half the time.
The only good Ocean GT voice was adult/SSJ4 Goku.

I agree about the adult Goku thing.. He sounded pretty similar to his Ocean Dub voice.

I'm not sure what you meant about the less sense thing though ^^; Personally I'd rather have had more gore rather than nakedness..

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:24 am

Blue Water had a good quantity of blood in it. I remember when Goku was captured by the robots, we saw a clip of him hitting the body guard and blood came out his mouth, and when Vegeta was possesed by Bebi/Baby, there was a lot of blood.

So, why is it Blue Water can show blood but Ocean (and possibly FUNi) can't?

snen · Post by **snen** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:50 am

Caracal wrote:Blue Water had a good quantity of blood in it. I remember when Goku was captured by the robots, we saw a clip of him hitting the body guard and blood came out his mouth, and when Vegeta was possesed by Bebi/Baby, there was a lot of blood.

So, why is it Blue Water can show blood but Ocean (and possibly FUNi) can't?

Oooooh right. I don't know, maybe it's because Ocean Dub is told what to edit by Saban - perhaps Blue Water aren't told by Saban? Good question.

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:40 pm

snen wrote:
Caracal wrote:Good question.

I'm inbetween. I like the Ocean voices, especally when compaired to some of FUNi's like Fat Buu and Mr. Satan, but I hate how Ocean skipped over the words death, die and kill. I mean honestly, what the bloody hell is wrong with using those words? And their censorship at times was questionable. They cut out scenes with guns and death! Why? Again, FUNi showed them so why was it so wrong for Ocean? Granted towards the end of DBZ they started to use death etc. and were less leanient about censorship but it's a shame they couldn't have done that earlier in the series. I like the idea Chibi-Chi mentioned - Ocean's VAs with FUNi's lines and censorship. Then, in my humble opinion, we'd have the perfect DBZ dub.

But don't get me started on Blue Water! Granted their censorship is good and they use the original music, but their voices were terrible!

Though I haven't seen any subbed eps (don't know where to get any bar Kaaza or however you spell it), but I would like to as I'd like to know what has been cut out and what the characters really said.
That's true.. But in the last few episodes of DBZ there's even nakedness and stuff A big step there..

Blue Water *foams at the mouth* Their GT voices made GT almost unwatchable - even more than it was already *not a GT fan*. Their voices for Chibi Goku, Vegeta and Pan made me watch it on mute half the time.

I'd love to see any uncut/subbed eps too, but I can't use Kazaa as it damages my PC At the moment I'm saving up to buy some uncut Japanese subbed DVDs, but for clips, try www.oujou.com as they have several from most sagas - uncut and in Japanese! They've also made a point of putting in the stuff the cut version leaves out.

Yes, oujou does have a lot of clips but not enough for each saga.

.........Dam. I was gona name a few that I know of but, most of them are all gone.

As for GT, I thought it was pretty decent. Some parts better than FUNmation.

For example, when Goku and Trunks found pan on the ship, there reactions seem to match what they look like (Saying "what are you doing hear!" in a suppressed voice).

In the FUNmaion version, Trunks is saying it in a "not so surpassed" voice. ( like "I don't think this is right" while your faces is saying that "Your in Shock!".)

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:19 pm

snen wrote:
Caracal wrote:Blue Water had a good quantity of blood in it. I remember when Goku was captured by the robots, we saw a clip of him hitting the body guard and blood came out his mouth, and when Vegeta was possesed by Bebi/Baby, there was a lot of blood.

So, why is it Blue Water can show blood but Ocean (and possibly FUNi) can't?
Oooooh right. I don't know, maybe it's because Ocean Dub is told what to edit by Saban - perhaps Blue Water aren't told by Saban? Good question.

Perhaps. I always forget about Saban or AB (I think they had something to do with the Ocean dub, or at least when it was first released. And I think the company was called AB but I'm not 100% sure.)

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:11 pm

I prefer the dub of anything myself, mainly cause I hate reading subs, and because a lot of Japanese voices just... hurt my ears.

Which is quite strange since I love JPop/JRock...

And yes Piros's voice is Crap-tacular in the dubs... (I just started playing .hack Infection again, I STILL don't have the rest of them yet!

). Hmmm, maybe I should try playing it with the Jap audio this time through, just to hear what it sounds like.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:12 pm

Xyex wrote:I prefer the dub of anything myself, mainly cause I hate reading subs, and because a lot of Japanese voices just... hurt my ears. Which is quite strange since I love JPop/JRock...

Opposite of me. If I have a DVD of an anime, I like to change the language to Japanise and read the subs. But to each their own.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:00 am

Caracal wrote:
Xyex wrote:I prefer the dub of anything myself, mainly cause I hate reading subs, and because a lot of Japanese voices just... hurt my ears. Which is quite strange since I love JPop/JRock...
Opposite of me. If I have a DVD of an anime, I like to change the language to Japanise and read the subs. But to each their own.

I watch both versions on the dvd to compare. DBZ and Outlaw Star are shows I alternate between the languages on. Sailor Moon is definately better in Japanese, but the dub introduced me to it so I can't totally bash it. Like I said earlier, I prefer YYH in English over what I've seen of it in Japanese. Especially the scene when Genkai puts the spirit cuffs around Yusuke's wrists. In the Japanese version, he just mentioned that they were heavy. In the English however, he thought she was trying some S & M on him. As he said it, "Hey, I'm not into this kinky stuff, and you're way too old!" I died laughing.

Chibi-Chi · Post by **Chibi-Chi** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:20 am

I know this is slightly out of topic, but i love Outlaw star, even though i've only seen a few episodes.

Right, back on topic

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:25 pm

snen wrote:Oooooh right. I don't know, maybe it's because Ocean Dub is told what to edit by Saban - perhaps Blue Water aren't told by Saban? Good question.

I'm getting sick of explaining this, BUT...

FUNi originally had the rights to made DBZ. They were going to distribute the show in the US through Saban, so Saban had control over censorship. They also used the Ocean Group voices.

About half-way through the Namek/Freeza stuff, they stopped making episodes. And so it remained, until Cartoon Network bought the show and became interested in making more episodes. FUNi agreed, but decided to use their own voices. They also had less censorship to do, since CN was a cable/digital/satellite channel, and they have looser laws that Network (terrestrial) channels in the US.

Apparently, at some point, AB (or whatever they are called) realised that they actually had the rights to DBZ in Europe and Canada. So they started to dub the show themselves. They basically copied the FUNi script, and got the Ocean group to do the dubbing. This dub started to replace the FUNi dub in those countries (in the UK, just after the "Trunks" mini-saga). As to why CN UK used the FUNi dub for the early fusion stuff, it's possible that AB hadn't got around to dubbing those episodes yet. CN UK still show the FUNi version of the late Freeza saga, Garlic Jnr saga, and Trunks mini-saga, so either AB haven't gotten the OG to dub them, or CN UK haven't bothered to buy those episodes (even though they probably legally should, since AB have the rights to DB over here).

The censorship laws that the FUNi episodes were subjected to were Cartoon Network USs, although they also made an "uncut" dub (which used the same script as the TV one, but kept every single frame of footage the same).

The censorship laws that the AB/OC dub (not to be confused with the FUNi/OC dub of the Saiyan and early Namek sagas) is a bit more confusing, but it's probably based around YTV in the US. Or maybe they're just playing it safe, since we know that they can get away with more in the UK than they do.

Finally, when it came time to do GT, for some reason AB (or the OG) decided to use the Blue Water studios to dub the show (Blue Water studios are actually a sub-studio of the Ocean Group). They also stopped using FUNi's scripts, and started to use ones that are sometimes more accurate, sometimes less, but can at least use more religious stuff without worrying about offending the American religious right. They also used the original music. And they carried on like this for the original DragonBall.

The FUNi/OG dub couldn't show blood (at least not without making it black). They also couldn't have death in. None of these rules apply to the other dubs. The AB/OG is possibly a bit stricter than the rest of them, but they can all show blood. As far as can be worked out, the general rule seems to be "stained or caked blood is okay, spurting blood isn't".

I can't think of any reason as to why the AB/BW dub has less censorship than the AB/OG one. But it does. *shrug*

snen wrote: At the moment I'm saving up to buy some uncut Japanese subbed DVDs

Oh, for Pete's sake, just buy FUNi's. One of them will be far cheaper than saving up for a Japanese DragonBox. And if you buy one of the box sets, it's not bad value for money. Or the original DragonBall, which has around 15 episodes on a two-disc set for about £15. And on top of accurate subtitles and original voices, you also get FUNi's best DB-based dub thrown in.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:30 pm

Another point you forgot to mention Liam is that the Dragonboxes aren't subbed.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:48 pm

Not to mention FUNi's DVD's are better quality.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:21 pm

About children seeing the uncut DBZ....there were plenty of Japanese children who saw the series in its original form. But, meh, whatever, different cultures deem different things to be unacceptable (as can be seen through the different censored elements of anime in various countries).

As for the original subs vs. dubs question, I will always watch something subtitled when the option is available, but I have no problem watching shows dubbed on Adut Swim and Toonami (though I'm a bit confused by Funimation's Americanization of Detective Conan....I thought we had moved past the stage when all names and settings had to be changed to be English-sounding

Then again, the Funi cast's pronunciation of Japanese is less than stellar....I die a little everytime "Urameshi" is pronounced "Yurameshi" on Yuu Yuu Hakusho). With the DB DVD releases, I always watch the Japanese version first and then watch the English version. I don't know, I guess I'm just interested in seeing how the dub progresses/regresses (I was impressed when they used actual swear words like "ass" and "damn" in movie 7, but confused when they returned to the usual "darn you!"s in movie 8....what's up with that?)

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:12 pm

Apparently the swear words in that movie were a mistake. I suspect Chris Sabat snuck them in without Gen noticing (since it's Gen who seems to be the one behind the "no swearing at all ever" policy).

sailorspazz wrote:About children seeing the uncut DBZ....there were plenty of Japanese children who saw the series in its original form.

Y'know, just because the Japanese did it, doesn't make it better.

I'm not having a go, but people seem to say this a lot. "Oh, in Japan kids are allowed to watch people beheading each other and then drinking the blood spurting from the head at the age of 2". Japan isn't some enlightened utopia where everyone is all super-happy great, all the time, ever.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:20 pm

Heh, that's pretty funny with the sneaking in of swear words....I would so do that if I were a VA

I'm not saying Japan is somehow better or worse than any other country because their animation is more violent/sexualized/etc. I realize that the things depicted in many anime are unacceptable to people in other countries. Some see it as an argument of morals or protecting children, but I really see it as just cultural variation. Japan seems to have a very clear-cut sense of fantasy vs. reality and there is an understanding that what happens in anime is clearly for the fantasy world only (kind of like how yaoi is accepted as a form of entertainment while real life homosexuality really isn't), while in America you get soccer moms screaming, "Oh my god, if the children see sex and violence on TV they're going to go out and do it!" When properly put in the proper context of the fantasy world, I don't really think there's anything in Dragonball that is somehow damaging to children. Anyone may feel free to disagree, but those are just my feelings on the issue.

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:59 pm

PsyLiam wrote:Apparently the swear words in that movie were a mistake. I suspect Chris Sabat snuck them in without Gen noticing (since it's Gen who seems to be the one behind the "no swearing at all ever" policy).

If I may ask, did they say that in the edited version?
I have the unedited one, and I notes that that its rated up to 13 years old. These days, you can say words like "Ass" or "Birch," etc., compare to 5 or ten years ago. And it had gone up to that age level "PG-13."
Perhaps since it was the unedited they probably thout that it mit be OK. But I wounded, did they used the same script for the edited version, which would be "apropeut" for younger viewers.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:01 pm

I haven't seen the edited one either, but I would assume that they eventually caught the words and changed them, since they would probably be editing the movie for violence anyway. I guess we'll see what they did if they ever air the movie on Cartoon Network. If the words stayed, maybe it'll be like Dende's "Don't piss off the god of love" and just be aired over and over with no one doing anything about it (just curious, was THAT line ever explained by anyone at Funimation? It was just so odd that it was even in there, yet it aired several times and was never changed, as opposed to shows like Outlaw Star which were edited after their first runs to fix "mistakes" like the occasional "bastard" or "damn" that slipped through).

I don't really get why Gen would have such a problem with swear words in the uncut dub. I mean, they appear in the subtitles on the same disc that the dub is on, so why is it not OK for them to swear mildly, especially in something rated for teens and up? Maybe he's trying to avoid parent complaints, but those parents should read the friggin' box and see what the rating is. I think it would be great if some more swear words slipped into movie 9. Today's teens like hell ass bitchin' swearing, dammit

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:29 pm

I think it's a personal thing. Remeber that the Ginyu discs had the swearing cut out of the subtitles. I think that Gen just doesn't like swearing, period.

And considering there are still people on this board who insist on writing "f*ck", "sh*t", and "m*nkey", he's not alone.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:12 pm

"Monkey's" a swear word?!

Kanzenshuu

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