russ869 wrote:Teclo wrote:Well sort of. I was saying that since Trunks knew Goku arrived 3 hours later in a different direction and since he had been led to believe, presumably by Bulma, that he himself was the one that defeated Freeza it must be some sort of loop. Otherwise he'd have been told by Bulma that Goku is the one that defeated Freeza (since Trunks hadn't shown up originally) and he wouldn't think that Goku showed up 3 hours later.
Did Bulma tell him that he was originally the one to defeat Freeza? I can't remember if this was actually alluded to or not. You might be right. I just generally don't like time travel stories with that kind of predestined loop. Time travel in my mind is supposed to be about changing the past (or the threat that it could be changed). If all of what happened was really the only way it could have happened, why was Trunks even worried about needlessly altering history?
Well the only reason I say that Bulma told him is that how else would he know that he's the one that kills Freeza and Cold? He's totally certain that Freeza and Cold die at his hands and that Goku turns up three hours later nearby.
I'm no fan of the predestined thing or anything, I'm simply saying that whatever Toriyama may have been going for (and it sounds like he was certainly going for the "you can change history" angle) he actually ended up creating a situation where Trunks was already aware of his own actions and some of the results even though he hadn't gone back yet... That is to say that despite originally all these events supposedly would have played out without Mirai Trunks' presence, hence him going back to change things for the better, he still knew that he encounters and kills Freeza and Cold and that Goku arrives three hours later (which only happened
because of Trunks turning up.
Of course, after that all sorts of things happen that Mirai Trunks claimed didn't originally happen which goes with the whole "he changed history" angle but the original events surrounding his arrival in the past (our present) contradict that.
I know Trunks said something like "i am the one who will destroy you" but couldn't that just be confidence talking? i mean he's a super saiyan and so was Goku when he defeated him only by this point he's had 3 years to control the super saiyan power so he could easily wipe them out.
That's a fair point but it really drove home the point that he
knew that all this would happen and of course the fact that he
did turn up and defeat Freeza is the reason that he was also right about Goku arriving 3 hours later.
What should have happened is that originally there was no Trunks and Goku teleported in and defeated Freeza. Bulma told Trunks of this and so Trunks decided to arrive at that point to help Goku (and because it would be his earliest opportunity post-Namek to talk to Goku). Only Goku noticed Trunks arrival and didn't teleport in which confused Trunks. Trunks has changed history. Trunks got a little worried but Goku turns up shortly after. That would make sense with the "we can change history" angle that the rest of the saga took.
Finally, it's a little odd how Trunks didn't just travel back in time even earlier than Namek and tell Goku even earlier what was going to happen. Perhaps even travelled back in time and killed Gero himself, Terminator-style. Of course, the reason is that Toriyama had just finished the Namek Saga and was starting the next one when he introduced Trunks, time travel and the new threat. Unless he
himself had a time machine, he couldn't insert Trunks any earlier in the story.
