Trunks' Tail???

[gohanku]

They could have just brought Trunks and Goten up to Kami's place and have Dende remove there tails just to avoid all the crap they would have to go through during full moons. It was a time of peace n’ all so who needs two big monkey’s rampaging around? Not to mention Chi Chi and Bulma would like there children to look as normal as possible so I don't think it's a totally far out theory.

Edit: For those who forgot Kami removed Goku's tail after the King Piccolo fight, so it is possible to do.

Well, don't forget. At the time, Earth had no moon. Unless Kami restored it. Again.

Yeah he did, when asked about his tail missing in the 23rd Budokai, I think Goku said something like, "Yeah, Kami said that when my tail was gone, the moon could finally come back."

And I guess that, Bulma knowing too well about the Saiyan tail, would ask Kami to remove Trunks', hoping that he had some way to make it permanent like Goku's (but Goku's might be due to age, like Vegeta's but Kami was sure about Goku's tail, so he probably knew a permanent way to it) and when Goten was born, seeing what Gohan could do, might have did the same thing.

[Lol]

They could have just brought Trunks and Goten up to Kami's place and have Dende remove there tails just to avoid all the crap they would have to go through during full moons. It was a time of peace n’ all so who needs two big monkey’s rampaging around? Not to mention Chi Chi and Bulma would like there children to look as normal as possible so I don't think it's a totally far out theory.

Edit: For those who forgot Kami removed Goku's tail after the King Piccolo fight, so it is possible to do.

Well, don't forget. At the time, Earth had no moon. Unless Kami restored it. Again.

Yeah he did, when asked about his tail missing in the 23rd Budokai, I think Goku said something like, "Yeah, Kami said that when my tail was gone, the moon could finally come back."

The moon was destroyed again by Piccolo in early Sayan Saga. I think it's very possible of Kami restoring it again... The people wouldn't like of living forever without moon. There isn't any episode (Even if it's filler) on the night after the Sayan saga?

[Humpski]

The moon was destroyed again by Piccolo in early Sayan Saga.

Was that filler?

[TripleRach]

The moon was destroyed again by Piccolo in early Sayan Saga.

Was that filler?

No. Gohan transforming and Piccolo destroying the moon to stop it happened in the manga. The moon is still gone when Vegeta comes to Earth, which is why he has to create a Power Ball to transform. But I'm not sure about the moon's status after that.

What is filler (and a plot hole) is when Gohan transforms because he finds Gokuu's spacepod and sees an image of the moon, prompting Piccolo to destroy the ship to stop it.

[Toniofalcon]

I thought that was Uub ( as far as the last chapter and the Kintoun ).

Oh, and we can just assume that Goku and Vegeta just took them off. No biggie, seeing as Piccolo destroyed the moon.

*makes up excuses for Toriyama*

[caejones]

When the earth was wished back after Buu blew it up, isn't there a shot of the moon?

Kento'un: in the dub at least, at some point in the Saiyaman saga Gohan flies off, and calls back to Goten "Nimbus is all yours now!". In the new ending of the kanzenban, Goku does indeed give the cloud to Uub.

[SuperVegito17]

Well, it still IS possible that half-saiyans aren't supposed to grow tails usually, only Gohan was SPECIAL, which is why he had such amount of hidden abilities.

[SuperVegito17]

Don't forget Gohan giving Kinto'un to Goten and the Kanzenban ending.

I don't recall seeing this! Is there an image of it anywhere?

I think the daizex site has the kanzenban ending images...not too sure though, where goku gives his Nimbus to UUb. Plus, Gohan gives the Nimbus to Goten in the series, after becoming Saiyaman.

[Bura]

Looks like no one else posted this, but in my manga Kuririn asks Bulma if she has cut of his tail, and Yamcha even replies with; "That's terrible!"
So according to my manga, Trunks did have one but Bulma chopped it off at birth, which is understandable since she saw an Oozaru in action.

[caejones]

While I'd consider it possible (Despite movie11's credits ) that Goten and Trunks had their tails cut off at birth, and that would have prevented scarring (The best example I can think of in the real world is circumcision though... -.-), aiyan tails have been shown to tendto grow back before the saiyan goes through puberty (Vegeta's "Oh, it'll grow back" comments aside... Goku and Gohan's tails grew back when they were younger, but once they were over five feet tall no more tail-growing).
An easy explanation for this though would be that Bulma found a way to prevent it from growing back rather quickly, maybe even before Trunks was born, and decided to share it with ChiChi.

[Lol]

Looks like no one else posted this, but in my manga Kuririn asks Bulma if she has cut of his tail, and Yamcha even replies with; "That's terrible!"
So according to my manga, Trunks did have one but Bulma chopped it off at birth, which is understandable since she saw an Oozaru in action.

In mine, Yamcha replies with "I'm shocked.", about the fact of Trunks being Vegeta's son. Actually, there is no answer for Kuririn's question...

[Xyex]

Looks like no one else posted this, but in my manga Kuririn asks Bulma if she has cut of his tail, and Yamcha even replies with; "That's terrible!"
So according to my manga, Trunks did have one but Bulma chopped it off at birth, which is understandable since she saw an Oozaru in action.

In mine, Yamcha replies with "I'm shocked.", about the fact of Trunks being Vegeta's son. Actually, there is no answer for Kuririn's question...

Yeah, she never answers. The manga itself never states one way or the other. But he mentions in an interview that they were born without them. Something about a recessive gene. That doesn't work in real world science but as we're talking about Dragonworld, anything's possible.

[caejones]

While I doubt Toriyama was incredibly knowledgeable on genetics, we could try to make recessive refer to the nature of the trait rather than the genes... like, 'recessive' in this case wouldn't mean they genetically wouldn't have them, more that something causes them to appear differently in half breeds... maybe later than full-bloods? In which case there would have been enough time to medically prevent them from growing.

[Xyex]

While I doubt Toriyama was incredibly knowledgeable on genetics, we could try to make recessive refer to the nature of the trait rather than the genes... like, 'recessive' in this case wouldn't mean they genetically wouldn't have them, more that something causes them to appear differently in half breeds... maybe later than full-bloods? In which case there would have been enough time to medically prevent them from growing.

Actually, applying recessive to their nature actually falls into line with a theory of mine that I've had for years. SSJ over rides Oozaru and you can't have both (GT doesn't count here since it's glorified fanfiction where anything is possible). So tails are recessive to the ability of Super Saiya-jin. Thus Goten and Trunks, being born with the power to transform, were also born lacking tails.

[Rocketman]

SSJ over rides Oozaru and you can't have both

Goku and Vegeta have both.

[Xyex]

SSJ over rides Oozaru and you can't have both

Goku and Vegeta have both.

No they don't. They no longer have their tails (and thus no longer have Oozaru) when they have Super Saiya-jin. Outside of GT no Saiya-jin has a tail/Oozaru and Super Saiya-jin at the same time. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all lost them before they transformed and Goten and Trunks never had them.

[caejones]

Point made!
One might analyze out of this that this connection shows how Saiyans relied too much on their tails while working for Freeza (Remember the scene where King Vegeta killed his messenger because it would take three extra days to conquer a planet, and the "briliant scientist!" dialogue despite it's very non-canon-ness...). Whereas the SSJ transformation comes more from something deep in the self.
We see this contrast very well when King Cold decides to "play it safe" and use Trunks' sword instead of acting offensively at first... and Dub Trunks responds "You should know the weapon doesn't make the man!"
Up until then, Saiyans had treated the tail as what made them who they were--remember Raditz's response to Goku not having a tail. But the SSJs long since stopped caring about the tails and become more concerned with personal things. (As for Goten and Trunks... when we put it in this context, I think I finally understand how they went SSJ without any traumatic events... but explaining it would probably require a link to a monster post of mine somewhere else...).

And GT both screws that up by making the tail important, and putting the focus on the pure-bloods contrary to Toriyamas original story. I remember reading an editorial on daizex that made arguments for DBZ critiquing Japanese 'racism' / elitism with the whole Saiyan pride business in Vegeta--remember that Toriyama said that Vegeta embodied the character traits he liked the least in people? But when Toei takes over most of the direction for GT, the purebloods and the tail come into play--old Saiyan ideology, rather than the "stop relying on the tail and birthrights!" theme established in Z...

So in conclusion, Saiyans took too long to realize the tail doesn't make the saiyan, Toei is racist, and Goten and Trunks went SSJ so early because they didn't have tails.

[Rocketman]

No they don't. They no longer have their tails (and thus no longer have Oozaru) when they have Super Saiya-jin. Outside of GT no Saiya-jin has a tail/Oozaru and Super Saiya-jin at the same time. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all lost them before they transformed and Goten and Trunks never had them.

Having the tail cut off doesn't change their DNA.

[Kaboom]

No they don't. They no longer have their tails (and thus no longer have Oozaru) when they have Super Saiya-jin. Outside of GT no Saiya-jin has a tail/Oozaru and Super Saiya-jin at the same time. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all lost them before they transformed and Goten and Trunks never had them.

Having the tail cut off doesn't change their DNA.

I agree. I don't see why you couldn't transform into one or the other, as long as the requirements are still filled for both.

~Edited for better phrasing.

[Xyex]

No they don't. They no longer have their tails (and thus no longer have Oozaru) when they have Super Saiya-jin. Outside of GT no Saiya-jin has a tail/Oozaru and Super Saiya-jin at the same time. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all lost them before they transformed and Goten and Trunks never had them.

Having the tail cut off doesn't change their DNA.

I agree. I don't see why you couldn't transform into one or the other, as long as the requirements are still filled for both.

~Edited for better phrasing.

And yet not having the tail prevents the Oozaru transformation. So obviously the tail has effects on a Saiya-jins body. The same thing in the tail that enables the Oozaru transformation could also block the SSJ transformation. This would be a prime reason for why Super Saiya-jins are such rare things. How many Saiya-jins do you think would lose thier tails for good? Or continue fighting after they had? The Earth Saiya-jins didn't care about their tails and Vegeta was pissed about loosing his but too determined to become immortal to really care.

And we don't know what goes on with a Saiya-jins DNA after they obtain Super Saiya-jin. I've always viewed the initial transformation as a spontaneous mutation or evolution. This mutation could then 'over ride' the DNA for the tail. It's not that the DNA isn't there but the DNA for the transformation is recessive to the DNA for the SSJ form. Thus the tail never grows and never has a supressing effect on the SSJ form.