Well then maybe it's on the fans to realize that a lot of his tidbits sound like conjecture rather than definitive "THIS IS HOW IT IS. END OF STORY." statements. Just because Toriyama is having fun throwing out different theories doesn't mean we can start throwing hissy fits because it disrupts the harmony of our headcanons and start pontificating about the state of his life and career.SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:I dont have a problem with him adding his imput in retrospect with things he overlooked prior to the series before but the angles hes been taking dont seem to be well thought through. A lot of which seems to just be light jokes upon the concepts he had in general rather than anything he meant to change in the canon. Thats at least how I took bizzare statements like Babidi having a doppleganger (the most eyebrow raising explaination I've heard yet.) but the problems I see are when the things he edits don't expand anything but just apply only for gag-purposes. Rarther than connect things together that could fit, he seems to facitiously hacknee his explainations off the first thing that pops into his head. Though I cant blame him if DB is the only thing he has that makes a dime these days.Li'l Lemmy wrote:Given the wonderful invention of personal canon, I'm not particularly concerned one way or the other, but some people take this stuff pretty seriously. Is Toriyama doing a disservice to his own creation by adding to it? Should he sit out of it? What do you think of his involvement with the DragonBall property as of late?
I actually feel sorry for him. With Toriyama I see more of his additions to DB; being used as his safety net for relevance in the Mangaka buisness rather than really trying to expand what milk is left in it. A lot of what hes tried to do has not at all been very useful at all when his editors don't look them over. I dont think he realizes that his word is law to a lot of people and all the confusing things he tells us now without understanding his own story is destroying it. Hes merely pitching ideas rather than reviewing what makes the most sense with the question. Him winging it is like what happened to superman way he was pre-crisis.
I have no solution but I really dont like the direction hes going with in how hes altering things we didnt need to know. His explaination of #16 makes no sense, his explaination of #17 doesnt sound logical, his explaination of Beerus and Freeza is still questionable... etc. There needs to be someone who knows enough about the series to help tweak these ideas into something that actually works before they become autocanonized.
Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
All this was before Gotenks knew how strong Evil Boo was. I won't accept it as an argument because during the 2nd round against Evil Boo, Gotenks went straight into SS3. Now against a god who literally one-shots everyone around him, including Ultimate Gohan, Gotenks only goes SS and is confident about it. The only explanation (though not an in-universe one) I could accept is that he was supposed to be SS3 there but it didn't pick anyone's attention (unlike Gohan fighting Beerus as a SS which was fixed).DBZGTKOSDH wrote:This is the same guy that thought that he could beat Fat Boo in base, and the same guy that thought that he could hurt Evil Boo in base & SS after his 1-week training, even though he knew he was weaker than him as a SS before the training.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
He knew how strong Evil Boo was (the kids saw him), and he knew how strong Fat Boo was when he went to face him (they had seen him kicking Vegeta's ass). There is no excuse for him in these battle other than overestimating himself because he is an arrogant fool. He had to get his ass kicked first to realize where he stands against him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
Checked the scene again. Gotenks is super-confident and mocks Beerus, which he shouldn't do even if he was SS3. I guess Gotenks being an idiot will do for now, though I'm still sceptical about SS1 Gotenks not being a mistake. You'd think the guy had learned his lesson by now.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
Well, apparently, he is still too arrogant & stupid to learn his lesson.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8881
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Toriyama Is Ruining DragonBall?!
The scene makes perfect sense when you remember he just watched Beerus one-shot SS Gohan.hleV wrote:Checked the scene again. Gotenks is super-confident and mocks Beerus, which he shouldn't do even if he was SS3. I guess Gotenks being an idiot will do for now, though I'm still sceptical about SS1 Gotenks not being a mistake. You'd think the guy had learned his lesson by now.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.