#NewRules According to Modern Toriyama

[rereboy]

I and another poster have already thoroughly explained this in the movie thread. They didn't just need Freeza for his powers and strength.

That discussion amounted to you assuming things like them wanting Freeza back because of his administrative skills, or charm and other such skills, and you ignoring everything I pointed out to you on why that doesn't make sense. You aren't doing any favors to yourself by referencing that. And since you seem to be implying that somehow there was a agreement regarding that discussion, I''ll be clear, no, there wasn't. All there was was you insisting that there was no plothole or inconsistency, and twisting logic and interpretations to come up with explanations for that plothole/inconsistency (like them wanting Freeza back because of his administrative skills).

[fexus]

I and another poster have already thoroughly explained this in the movie thread. They didn't just need Freeza for his powers and strength.

That discussion amounted to you assuming things like them wanting Freeza back because of his administrative skills, or charm and other such skills, and you ignoring everything I pointed out to you on why that doesn't make sense. You aren't doing any favors to yourself by referencing that. And since you seem to be implying that somehow there was a agreement regarding that discussion, I''ll be clear, no, there wasn't. All there was was you insisting that there was no plothole or inconsistency, and twisting logic and interpretations to come up with explanations for that plothole/inconsistency (like them wanting Freeza back because of his administrative skills).

And your role in that discussion amounted to you saying I was wrong without even addressing the points I put out and just say your points over and over.

Gohan didn't turn Saiyko no Senshi as he is far above the mooks simply in base. So far above that he, or even Piccolo could solo all 1000 by themselves. Gohan never had a problem with control, hence he went SSJ against bank robbers and was fine. He wouldn't accidentally kill anyone as he's not that incompetent or that rusty. He holds back all the time as Saiyaman. This is nothing new to him. It seems he didn't use it cause he simply doesn't have it anymore. He's not so rusty he could hurt someone. He's rusty that he'd have a harder time taking on skilled people. Hence why he had a hard time with Dabura, because his skills were rusty.

Where do you think Freeza gets his recruits? Other planets have strong warriors too. Hence they can fight off Freeza's army. Vegeta isn't exactly the strongest being ever at the time. Several planets could have someone like Nail on their side. Freeza recruits warriors by strong arming them. It says so in his bio he collects strong warriors from various planets. They work for him, or they die. He doesn't fucking pay anyone and they have no reason to join him beyond not being killed. This has nothing to do with blowing up planets, it has to do with killing those who don't join him. You refuse Freeza, you die. That's why people feared and worked for him. They had no choice. His first appearance is literally killing namek children to force people to do as he says. He's a thug who uses his power to control. Not just his power, but the power of his army. The army was faultering because it had no power players. No one strong enough to force their will onto others. Rebellions are slaughtered. That's the PTO way. They kill all those who threaten or oppose them. Freeza kills his minions all the time just from annoying or fucking up. He's a thug.

Too add more to this

Freeza’s organization
The next question asks how many planets Freeza and co. had, and what their organization was like. Toriyama says he thinks they ruled hundreds of planets, not including the ones they destroyed. The Saiyans were a fighting race who since ancient times had lived a violent and inhuman lifestyle, raiding planets to accumulate wealth. Freeza and co. ruled them by force, as big kingpins. They were all a violent bunch though, so their organization wasn’t like an actual company.

On Ginyu

The captain of Freeza's trump card, the Ginyu Special-Squad. He boasts the greatest strength out of all Freeza's underlings, including the Ginyu Special-Squad, and what's more is one of the few men who pure-heartedly reveres Freeza

They are brutes who force people to work under them as big kingpins and could no longer do that to other planets and races once their powerful members were dead, leaving them with weaklings. Ginyu is also one of the few men who actually likes and respects Freeza. Everyone else not so much considering they work for him or die.

They held back. Gohan also learn to control his SSJ a lot longer than his mystic form. Remember? Just going by this, it seems like you really don't want Gohan to lose his skills out of his own incompetence and want to lay the blame on Toriyama just because.

Of course, Freeza's organization ruled by force but that doesn't mean that Freeza himself wasn't an authoritative figure. They had more than enough soldiers to subdue rebelling planets without even needing Freeza to accompany them.

Again, it says nothing about the amount underlings that have enough power to blow up a planet which is the greatest showing that Freeza had ever done. Having underlings that even if greatly below Freeza's final form still hold enough intimidating factor that would make people wouldn't want to rebel. This just proves that they really don't need Freeza just for his power.

[rereboy]

And your role in that discussion amounted to you saying I was wrong without even addressing the points I put out and just say your points over and over.

Actually, I responded to them repetitively and stated why they didn't make sense in the context of the series and what we know about Freeza's organization and Freeza himself, not to mention that your assumptions had no support whatsoever in the series, but whatever... Think whatever you like, just don't think you will be able to reference that discussion and imply that there was an agreement that what you were saying was correct without receiving a response.

[dbzfan7]

They held back. Gohan also learn to control his SSJ a lot longer than his mystic form. Remember? Just going by this, it seems like you really don't want Gohan to lose his skills out of his own incompetence and want to lay the blame on Toriyama just because.

Of course, Freeza's organization ruled by force but that doesn't mean that Freeza himself wasn't an authoritative figure. They had more than enough soldiers to subdue rebelling planets without even needing Freeza to accompany them.

Again, it says nothing about the amount underlings that have enough power to blow up a planet which is the greatest showing that Freeza had ever done. Having underlings that even if greatly below Freeza's final form still hold enough intimidating factor that would make people wouldn't want to rebel. This just proves that they really don't need Freeza just for his power.

Ultimate isn't even a form. It's his hidden power being drawn out beyond it's limits. It's the same thing as his power up on namek, but taken to the extreme. You don't lose something like that. Also yes I can blame him as he writes the story. He has full control on what does and doesn't happen. Everything a character does can be blamed on the author as the author writes their actions. He can make him more incompetent, less incompetent, or dead. None of it is Gohan's doing, it's the writers choice and the direction he chooses to go in.

And where does he get his underlings...why from other planets. And what's the average level for his mooks...about 1000-2000. Freeza does nothing outside of intimidate. The whole point of bringing him back was because his army is weak. That was why he was brought back. Without Freeza and his higher ups, the rebels could fight off Freeza's army now.

And your role in that discussion amounted to you saying I was wrong without even addressing the points I put out and just say your points over and over.

Actually, I responded to them repetitively and stated why they didn't make sense in the context of the series and what we know about Freeza's organization and Freeza himself, not to mention that your assumptions had no support whatsoever in the series, but whatever... Think whatever you like, just don't think you will reference that discussion and imply that there was an agreement that what you were saying was correct without receiving a response.

Taking a look a few pages back, I'm wasting my time. I already posted quotes and citations of Freeza and how he collects warriors from other worlds, controls through force, only a handful even are truly loyal beyond fear. The point is the rebels could fight back and win. That's how weak Freeza's forces had become. Shisami is a paradox no matter how we look at it.

[fexus]

And your role in that discussion amounted to you saying I was wrong without even addressing the points I put out and just say your points over and over.

Actually, I responded to them repetitively and stated why they didn't make sense in the context of the series and what we know about Freeza's organization and Freeza himself, not to mention that your assumptions had no support whatsoever in the series, but whatever... Think whatever you like, just don't think you will be able to reference that discussion and imply that there was an agreement that what you were saying was correct without receiving a response.

All you did was saying that this couldn't be true because of this specific reason that happen once in the manga during a time in which that specific someone was trying to find a specific something that that specific someone wanted specifically at the specific time.
So, I don't care if you can't accept it because your headcanon is a mess. You don't want to accept my interpretation, I'm okay with that. But just don't push your interpretation as the right one. I never once said that I won that argument and we had an agreement in the movie thread. I was just saying that I had already explained my self there and I don't have to explain myself here.

Ultimate isn't even a form. It's his hidden power being drawn out beyond it's limits. It's the same thing as his power up on namek, but taken to the extreme. You don't lose something like that. Also yes I can blame him as he writes the story. He has full control on what does and doesn't happen. Everything a character does can be blamed on the author as the author writes their actions. He can make him more incompetent, less incompetent, or dead. None of it is Gohan's doing, it's the writers choice and the direction he chooses to go in.

And where does he get his underlings...why from other planets. And what's the average level for his mooks...about 1000-2000. Freeza does nothing outside of intimidate. The whole point of bringing him back was because his army is weak. That was why he was brought back. Without Freeza and his higher ups, the rebels could fight off Freeza's army now.

Gohan was asked to power up like he was going SSJ. That's obvious proof that he have to activate that form at will. The writer choice that he had already gave excuses to.

How would you know that? Assumptions right? Well, my assumptions aren't the same as yours and mine explained the whole story this movie a lot better than yours. Don't want to accept it? Alright, but if you and other people can express their assumptions as it's real, I can also. I'm finish with this. Already explained myself too much.

[dbzfan7]

Ultimate isn't even a form. It's his hidden power being drawn out beyond it's limits. It's the same thing as his power up on namek, but taken to the extreme. You don't lose something like that. Also yes I can blame him as he writes the story. He has full control on what does and doesn't happen. Everything a character does can be blamed on the author as the author writes their actions. He can make him more incompetent, less incompetent, or dead. None of it is Gohan's doing, it's the writers choice and the direction he chooses to go in.

And where does he get his underlings...why from other planets. And what's the average level for his mooks...about 1000-2000. Freeza does nothing outside of intimidate. The whole point of bringing him back was because his army is weak. That was why he was brought back. Without Freeza and his higher ups, the rebels could fight off Freeza's army now.

Gohan was asked to power up like he was going SSJ. That's obvious proof that he have to activate that form at will. The writer choice that he had already gave excuses to.

How would you know that? Assumptions right? Well, my assumptions aren't the same as yours and mine explained the whole story this movie a lot better than yours. Don't want to accept it? Alright, but if you and other people can express their assumptions as it's real, I can also. I'm finish with this. Already explained myself too much.

It's not a form. It's just tapping into his hidden power. Further proving this is under the special attack index for all characters, Ultimate/Saikyo no Senshi is not listed at all. For Goku we have all of his forms listed from Oozaru to SSJ to SSJ3. For Gohan it only lists SSJ and SSJ2, as that's because what we dub "Ultimate" is not a form.

No It was straight from the Daizenshuu. Posted the citations even. Hell he's so determined to rule by power, not even his right hand man is safe. Just for one fuck up, Zarbon had one hour to fix it or else he'd be killed. Didn't matter that he was Freeza's top guy and assistant.

[fexus]

Ultimate isn't even a form. It's his hidden power being drawn out beyond it's limits. It's the same thing as his power up on namek, but taken to the extreme. You don't lose something like that. Also yes I can blame him as he writes the story. He has full control on what does and doesn't happen. Everything a character does can be blamed on the author as the author writes their actions. He can make him more incompetent, less incompetent, or dead. None of it is Gohan's doing, it's the writers choice and the direction he chooses to go in.

And where does he get his underlings...why from other planets. And what's the average level for his mooks...about 1000-2000. Freeza does nothing outside of intimidate. The whole point of bringing him back was because his army is weak. That was why he was brought back. Without Freeza and his higher ups, the rebels could fight off Freeza's army now.

Gohan was asked to power up like he was going SSJ. That's obvious proof that he have to activate that form at will. The writer choice that he had already gave excuses to.

How would you know that? Assumptions right? Well, my assumptions aren't the same as yours and mine explained the whole story this movie a lot better than yours. Don't want to accept it? Alright, but if you and other people can express their assumptions as it's real, I can also. I'm finish with this. Already explained myself too much.

It's not a form. It's just tapping into his hidden power. Further proving this is under the special attack index for all characters, Ultimate/Saikyo no Senshi is not listed at all. For Goku we have all of his forms listed from Oozaru to SSJ to SSJ3. For Gohan it only lists SSJ and SSJ2, as that's because what we dub "Ultimate" is not a form.

No It was straight from the Daizenshuu. Posted the citations even. Hell he's so determined to rule by power, not even his right hand man is safe. Just for one fuck up, Zarbon had one hour to fix it or else he'd be killed. Didn't matter that he was Freeza's top guy and assistant.

The point is he needs to power up to get those power just like SSJ.

Those citation you put was that, Freeza ruled by force. Of course, he rule by force but that doesn't mean he doesn't have more to him than just force. If it did, Freeza's army themselves can keep the company together even without Freeza's help.

[rereboy]

All you did was saying that this couldn't be true because of this specific reason that happen once in the manga during a time in which that specific someone was trying to find a specific something that that specific someone wanted specifically at the specific time.
So, I don't care if you can't accept it because your headcanon is a mess. You don't want to accept my interpretation, I'm okay with that. But just don't push your interpretation as the right one. I never once said that I won that argument and we had an agreement in the movie thread. I was just saying that I had already explained my self there and I don't have to explain myself here.

No, I explained and stated several examples of how Freeza operates, how his personality is and how he treats his men and how his organization works, all fully supported by the manga and the series itself and by what happens in the manga tie-in to the movie. And you stated possibilities of Freeza being very good at administrative duties, or diplomacy, or having great charm, and being those skills that his soldiers need so that the organization doesn't fall apart, not his power, because they already had power in that soldier that managed to rival Piccolo, which is not supported anywhere in the manga or the series nor makes sense.

And now Dbzfan7 is doing basically the same I did or similar, but probably at the end of it you will also claim his headcanon is a mess.

[dbzfan7]

The point is he needs to power up to get those power just like SSJ.

Those citation you put was that, Freeza ruled by force. Of course, he rule by force but that doesn't mean he doesn't have more to him than just force. If it did, Freeza's army themselves can keep the company together even without Freeza's help.

Pretty much everyone powers up in base. We see it for everyone whether they transform or not. Piccolo does it before fighting 17. Goku did it before fighting Nappa. It's like a gear change rather than a transformation. He has base, but then can quickly raise his power if he wishes.

He has fear and intimidation too. Which he uses to keep people in check. All stemming from the threat of being murdered. No one is safe. He gives no shits about even his strongest operatives. Zarbon is with him at all times, and is his right hand man. Yet Freeza had no problem threatening to kill him in an hour if he didn't succeed. Everyone is expendable to Freeza. Hence if the rebels were trouble, they'd just kill them all off. They couldn't though as the rebels now didn't have to contend with really powerful people. They could handle the weak trash which forced Sorbet to have his mooks fall back.

No, I explained and stated several examples of how Freeza operates, how his personality is and how he treats his men and how his organization works, all fully supported by the manga and the series itself. And you stated possibilities of Freeza being very good at administrative duties, of having great charm, and being those skills that his soldiers need so that the organization doesn't fall apart, not his power, because they already had power in that soldier that managed to rival Piccolo, which is not supported anywhere in the manga or the series nor makes sense.

And now Dbzfan7 is doing basically the same I did or similar, but probably at the end of it you will also claim his headcanon is a mess.

I have yet to see anywhere where he used charm or administrative duties to get a job done. It's always been force. Also Gohan's power up not being a form which really doesn't just up an vanish. It'd be like if Piccolo started loosing God and Nail's power for no reason.

[jcogginsa]

He didn't suddenly lose ki control. He did fine. He handled the mooks fine. If Gohan needs SSJ for Shisame, that means Shisame is on par with or stronger than Freeza was. Hence they didn't even need Freeza.

Yes and I disagree. Freeza ruled through his immense power. Cross him and your planet goes boom. It's serve or die. Rebel and you are dead.

He didn't suddenly lose ki control. He regressed in ki control. Just like if you're doing something in real life. You don't suddenly lose those skills you never trained for years but you will get rusty at it. And Shisame being as strong as Freeza isn't a problem. They don't only need Freeza for his powers and strength.

He at no point shows he has a problem. He's never had a problem over 7 years, so it's unlikely another 5 are gonna make him sloppy. He didn't even weaken over 7 years. Krillin and Yamcha haven't been training either, and they're fine.

Yes it is. Him being that powerful means he'd run things. Sorbet and Tagoma don't mean shit. They do need Freeza for his power and strength as that's what strikes fear into people. His cruelty and power. He holds worlds in check as he will without remorse blow them up. Once it became known Freeza's army was weak, they could fight back. They had no power players to keep worlds under control. With Shisame that'd be a non issue if he's that powerful. He'd nuke those worlds and overpower armies single handedly. Freeza calls the current state of his army pathetic. How would it be that bad if someone was stronger than him was on the team.

Stop acting like Training is an impossibility. If they attacked the day after Frieza was rezzed, you'd have a point.

[dbzfan7]

Yes it is. Him being that powerful means he'd run things. Sorbet and Tagoma don't mean shit. They do need Freeza for his power and strength as that's what strikes fear into people. His cruelty and power. He holds worlds in check as he will without remorse blow them up. Once it became known Freeza's army was weak, they could fight back. They had no power players to keep worlds under control. With Shisame that'd be a non issue if he's that powerful. He'd nuke those worlds and overpower armies single handedly. Freeza calls the current state of his army pathetic. How would it be that bad if someone was stronger than him was on the team.

Stop acting like Training is an impossibility. If they attacked the day after Freeza was rezzed, you'd have a point.

It's about as likely as Appule's super strong brother soon discovering his death and heading to earth for revenge. It's never mentioned or suggested as far as I know that some flunkie is also a prodigy who can reach a high level in 4 months of fuck all. Trying to say that's the reason just covers up clear incompetence in the story. We shouldn't be rationalizing a problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch. Make up all the excuses you want to a question that'll more than likely never be answered, it's still a stain. You can say it just ended up there. You could say a pet caused the stain, in the end a mess is a mess.

[jcogginsa]

Yes it is. Him being that powerful means he'd run things. Sorbet and Tagoma don't mean shit. They do need Freeza for his power and strength as that's what strikes fear into people. His cruelty and power. He holds worlds in check as he will without remorse blow them up. Once it became known Freeza's army was weak, they could fight back. They had no power players to keep worlds under control. With Shisame that'd be a non issue if he's that powerful. He'd nuke those worlds and overpower armies single handedly. Freeza calls the current state of his army pathetic. How would it be that bad if someone was stronger than him was on the team.

Stop acting like Training is an impossibility. If they attacked the day after Freeza was rezzed, you'd have a point.

It's about as likely as Appule's super strong brother soon discovering his death and heading to earth for revenge. It's never mentioned or suggested as far as I know that some flunkie is also a prodigy who can reach a high level in 4 months of fuck all. Trying to say that's the reason just covers up clear incompetence in the story. We shouldn't be rationalizing a problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch. Make up all the excuses you want to a question that'll more than likely never be answered, it's still a stain. You can say it just ended up there. You could say a pet caused the stain, in the end a mess is a mess.

So? It still makes more sense that just saying Piccolo is randomly weaker now. Just having Piccolo get weaker is just people taking things in the worst possible way, to make the film look as bad as it can possibly be

[dbzfan7]

So? It still makes more sense that just saying Piccolo is randomly weaker now. Just having Piccolo get weaker is just people taking things in the worst possible way, to make the film look as bad as it can possibly be

Or we can admit it's a fuck up because obviously something as simple as power consistency was not kept in mind. That's the bottom line cause stuff like this is something Toriyama doesn't care about. Either option is ridiculous and stupid whether it's Piccolo getting weaker. Random mook being a prodigy. Random mook already being more powerful than Freeza. No matter what it's stupid.

[jcogginsa]

So? It still makes more sense that just saying Piccolo is randomly weaker now. Just having Piccolo get weaker is just people taking things in the worst possible way, to make the film look as bad as it can possibly be

Or we can admit it's a fuck up because obviously something as simple as power consistency was not kept in mind. That's the bottom line cause stuff like this is something Toriyama doesn't care about. Either option is ridiculous and stupid whether it's Piccolo getting weaker. Random mook being a prodigy. Random mook already being more powerful than Freeza. No matter what it's stupid.

Not a Random Mook. The third highest ranking person in the empire. An empire with a history of puting Mutants in a postion of power

[dbzfan7]

So? It still makes more sense that just saying Piccolo is randomly weaker now. Just having Piccolo get weaker is just people taking things in the worst possible way, to make the film look as bad as it can possibly be

Or we can admit it's a fuck up because obviously something as simple as power consistency was not kept in mind. That's the bottom line cause stuff like this is something Toriyama doesn't care about. Either option is ridiculous and stupid whether it's Piccolo getting weaker. Random mook being a prodigy. Random mook already being more powerful than Freeza. No matter what it's stupid.

Not a Random Mook. The third highest ranking person in the empire. An empire with a history of puting Mutants in a postion of power

It's random when we just learn about him now, then cut to him being offed pretty quickly without much development. Ergo he's random. I doubt Shisame has a character beyond his name and title.

[fexus]

All you did was saying that this couldn't be true because of this specific reason that happen once in the manga during a time in which that specific someone was trying to find a specific something that that specific someone wanted specifically at the specific time.
So, I don't care if you can't accept it because your headcanon is a mess. You don't want to accept my interpretation, I'm okay with that. But just don't push your interpretation as the right one. I never once said that I won that argument and we had an agreement in the movie thread. I was just saying that I had already explained my self there and I don't have to explain myself here.

No, I explained and stated several examples of how Freeza operates, how his personality is and how he treats his men and how his organization works, all fully supported by the manga and the series itself and by what happens in the manga tie-in to the movie. And you stated possibilities of Freeza being very good at administrative duties, or diplomacy, or having great charm, and being those skills that his soldiers need so that the organization doesn't fall apart, not his power, because they already had power in that soldier that managed to rival Piccolo, which is not supported anywhere in the manga or the series nor makes sense.

And now Dbzfan7 is doing basically the same I did or similar, but probably at the end of it you will also claim his headcanon is a mess.

Nowhere in the manga support your so called opinion. What we see was Freeza behaving in a certain way in a specific situation. It didn't show how Freeza handles his organization at all. If you really think handling a big organization like Freeza is easy and all you need is power, you are sorely mistaken. The series does support having never known villains that is suddenly stronger than everyone appear out of nowhere. So, I don't understand why this is so different.

Everybody headcanon is a mess. Even mine. I don't care if you want to state your opinion regarding something that can have multiple opinion and interpretation about it but please stop pushing it like only your opinion is the right one and the only one that need to be accepted. I really think people should put "In my opinion" in front of their opinion full post so that things like this wouldn't happen.

It's about as likely as Appule's super strong brother soon discovering his death and heading to earth for revenge. It's never mentioned or suggested as far as I know that some flunkie is also a prodigy who can reach a high level in 4 months of fuck all. Trying to say that's the reason just covers up clear incompetence in the story. We shouldn't be rationalizing a problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch. Make up all the excuses you want to a question that'll more than likely never be answered, it's still a stain. You can say it just ended up there. You could say a pet caused the stain, in the end a mess is a mess.

How about having a genius inventor that can make android and cyborg who are stronger than Freeza with the technology on Earth? How did people rationalize that problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch?

Pretty much everyone powers up in base. We see it for everyone whether they transform or not. Piccolo does it before fighting 17. Goku did it before fighting Nappa. It's like a gear change rather than a transformation. He has base, but then can quickly raise his power if he wishes.

The thing is everybody who has SSJ can power up at base. Everybody who has a SSJ now can just transform just as fast.

[DanielSSJ]

The only thing that annoys me about the "Modern Toriyama" is how most of his new transformations are pallet swaps. SSJ God is basically normal Goku with Red hair. SSJ God SSJ or SSJ God 2 is a blue haired Super Saiyan. Golden Freeza. I like the new characters that are coming out, such as Beerus, but could a little more creativity go to the new transformations. I apprecieate the 'less is more' approach, but do something different. Please?

[dbzfan7]

It's about as likely as Appule's super strong brother soon discovering his death and heading to earth for revenge. It's never mentioned or suggested as far as I know that some flunkie is also a prodigy who can reach a high level in 4 months of fuck all. Trying to say that's the reason just covers up clear incompetence in the story. We shouldn't be rationalizing a problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch. Make up all the excuses you want to a question that'll more than likely never be answered, it's still a stain. You can say it just ended up there. You could say a pet caused the stain, in the end a mess is a mess.

How about having a genius inventor that can make android and cyborg who are stronger than Freeza with the technology on Earth? How did people rationalize that problem and trying to cover it up like it's a stain on the couch?

Cause that person had years to observe his foes and learn from them via spy camera's. He also was smart enough to create Infinite energy which no one else could. Gero was ahead of everyone. Like how in Mega Man X both Zero and X are far more advanced than practically every reploid 100 years later in the future, as both Wily and Light were just that gifted. Gero was far ahead of his time like Wily and Light.

The thing is everybody who has SSJ can power up at base. Everybody who has a SSJ now can just transform just as fast.

No shit. Point is it's not a transformation and he simply just raises his power like any other person to it's peak.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

The only thing that annoys me about the "Modern Toriyama" is how most of his new transformations are pallet swaps. SSJ God is basically normal Goku with Red hair. SSJ God SSJ or SSJ God 2 is a blue haired Super Saiyan. Golden Freeza. I like the new characters that are coming out, such as Beerus, but could a little more creativity go to the new transformations. I apprecieate the 'less is more' approach, but do something different. Please?

I would have prefered if Toriyama went more of the Naruto route and make the show more technique based now, and less about flashy transformation stacking because clearly he has no idea how to keep it simple while new. Goku has had 5 new forms since the Saiyan Saga and learned no new real tecniques at all. (IT is just better Teleportation)

[dbzfan7]

The only thing that annoys me about the "Modern Toriyama" is how most of his new transformations are pallet swaps. SSJ God is basically normal Goku with Red hair. SSJ God SSJ or SSJ God 2 is a blue haired Super Saiyan. Golden Freeza. I like the new characters that are coming out, such as Beerus, but could a little more creativity go to the new transformations. I apprecieate the 'less is more' approach, but do something different. Please?

I would have prefered if Toriyama went more of the Naruto route and make the show more technique based now, and less about flashy transformation stacking because clearly he has no idea how to keep it simple while new. Goku has had 5 new forms since the Saiyan Saga and learned no new real tecniques at all. (IT is just better Teleportation)

Agreed. I really want more techniques. New moves for Goku's arsenal.