Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Avok » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:31 pm

Kishido wrote:Ok Gohan was absolutely bad in this episode.

not only because his training with Piccolo was nothing as it seems but for his behavior towards Trunks.

someone from the future comes to you with all fucked up clothing and you forget to ask him what's going on.

For real?
I completely agree.

This was the opportunity to see Gohan's character. To have him talk about his current self, and his stand about fighting/what's been going on.

You can see that they tried to paralel him with Future Gohan, but they failed completely. Trunks and him should've talked about this- about how the different timelines turned different, about what's going on in the future...

Instead, the ep was wasted in Pan. And don't get me wrong, a few scenes with her would have been good to convey the message of Gohan's present life, but man, it was too much.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:43 pm

Trunks shows up at Gohan's place looking like a starving hobo that just survived a nuclear strike, and Gohan forgets to ask him why he came :roll:

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by omaro34 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:06 pm

Beyond wrote:I made an entire rant about what Super did to Piccolo, but I didn't post it. It made me feel better to get it off my chest though. I think I'll have to write gohan's next. My 2 favorites reduced to this. Granted, if Gohan is going to get the Piccolo vs Frost treatment, he'd be better off without a fight at all.
LOL bro you and me both.
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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Shinomori » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:14 am

dbzfan7 wrote:
She has not been appearing a lot. She's hardly appeared overall in the grand scheme of things. She's appeared less than Krillin has appeared. She definitely will not be featured as a player at all, and like Goten and Trunks, will likely follow in their footsteps. If we're going by Toriyama, then he's barely had Pan do anything, none of what they showed in the anime is likely his doing, and she has even less appearances. She groomed to be the next character on the side. Hell this last arc had to be handed to him instead of him coming up with it himself, so if he had such a plan for Pan, he wouldn't have needed to be given the ideas for the Black arc. Oob is the one with the real set up, not Pan. Oob has no other life outside of his village and fighting. He isn't going to be going to school or whatever. If they ever time skip, he's the successor, not Pan.

Goten was a Goku like character himself. So much so even his appearance was the same. She doesn't have Goku's love a fighting, but she has a liking to the martial arts. We already had Goten and Trunks also with a massive power and potential at a younger age than Gohan, and it didn't mean anything. She is far more likely to be cast behind Goku and Vegeta, and likely going to be going to school, and living a normal life. I highly doubt the she'd forsake everything for fighting like Goku does. They are not going to scrap an ending that has been cemented into the series for years. They'll like everything else, tie everything into that ending. Goku goes off with Oob. That is the ending.
I stand that its speculation on my part, but I strongly believe the ending of Z will be scrapped. I'm almost willing to bet on it. By the way, if it is scrapped, I doubt most would complain. In fact most would probably love it because the ending was terrible. Why else did Toriyama begin a new series from the end of the Boo saga? Every other time he continued the story of Dragon Ball, he did it from where he left off. I haven't met one person who felt the DBZ ending was a good one, having Goku leave his family yet again to go train some completely new character no fan was invested in at all. Again I'm pretty confident that ending will be trashed.

As for Goten and Trunks, they did play "a" role against Boo, but I never got any hints that they would become the next Gohan vs Cell type of deal. Yet it's different with Pan. She can very well be the new "Gohan" of the series if they do a time skip. Besides speaking of the ending of Z, Pan told Goku herself that she would train and become stronger when he came back. So she definitely loves fighting and martial arts. If you add that love of hers, and the prodigious feats we've seen her accomplish in Super already, she will definitely be a very strong character, even surpassing Gohan's potential.
NitroEX wrote:
Shinomori wrote: GT shouldn't be mentioned because Toriyama had nothing to do with it. In fact, pretty much everyone saw the whole thing as a flop. Now again it's just my speculation, but the ending of Z at this point makes no sense and will probably be scrapped completely.
You've got it the wrong way round, it's Super that doesn't make sense. Z's ending makes perfect sense within the context of the original story and that's how it should stay.

Also, I would say that while Pan could make for a good protagonist in the hands of a good writer (which Toei clearly doesn't have), Oob is still overall a better choice.

If you take away GT's portrayal of both characters and imagine how they would turn out based on what we know of them, Pan is basically set up to be a spoilt rich girl who has all her needs catered for (i.e. a Bulma type character). Her grandfather is rich and famous plus she's surrounded by powerful fighters to protect her and she lives in a civilised society with no need for fighting other than tournaments. The best case scenario is that she doesn't grow out of fighting like Goten and Trunks did but even so, she's quarter Saiyan meaning she most likely has a cap on how strong she could become. On top of that she will likely never face hardship like Goku, Gohan or Oob did so the conditions aren't right for her to become strong in the first place.

Even in terms of power her rage boosts are likely a lot smaller than Oob's are. After all, his power comes from being a reincarnated Kid Boo which is a far more interesting premise than another offspring of the main cast. The mystery surrounding Oob's power could easily be used as a building block to eventually make him even stronger the Saiyan characters.

At the end of the day neither Oob nor Pan will become protagonist despite the potential either of them may have. Dragonball has devolved into a popularity contest where Goku and Vegeta reign supreme and no one else is allowed to threaten that.
I can't see Pan being a spoiled rich girl from how she was portrayed in Z's ending. Goku said himself that she was a real go getter. She takes her training seriously and she loves it like Goku does. She told him she would continue her training and become stronger when Goku returned from training Oob. Besides, her being a quarter saiyan wouldn't make her weaker. If that were the case, Gohan should not have been as strong as he was because he was half saiyan. It's been speculated the saiyan/human mix creates a powerful hybrid. So, it doesn't really matter how much or how little the mix is. If you were to cap one, you must cap the other.

Now I will go on personal record and say, Oob's character sucks in my opinion. I do agree in Z's ending he was looked upon as Goku's successor, though we all know the real reason Goku agreed to train him was so he could fight him at full strength. Yet overall his character came out of the blue, and I still don't quite get how he came about in the first place as being the reincarnation of Kid Boo. Yet all in all, Oob was seen as the successor. I would take Pan over Oob as the better choice.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:09 am

Shinomori wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
She has not been appearing a lot. She's hardly appeared overall in the grand scheme of things. She's appeared less than Krillin has appeared. She definitely will not be featured as a player at all, and like Goten and Trunks, will likely follow in their footsteps. If we're going by Toriyama, then he's barely had Pan do anything, none of what they showed in the anime is likely his doing, and she has even less appearances. She groomed to be the next character on the side. Hell this last arc had to be handed to him instead of him coming up with it himself, so if he had such a plan for Pan, he wouldn't have needed to be given the ideas for the Black arc. Oob is the one with the real set up, not Pan. Oob has no other life outside of his village and fighting. He isn't going to be going to school or whatever. If they ever time skip, he's the successor, not Pan.

Goten was a Goku like character himself. So much so even his appearance was the same. She doesn't have Goku's love a fighting, but she has a liking to the martial arts. We already had Goten and Trunks also with a massive power and potential at a younger age than Gohan, and it didn't mean anything. She is far more likely to be cast behind Goku and Vegeta, and likely going to be going to school, and living a normal life. I highly doubt the she'd forsake everything for fighting like Goku does. They are not going to scrap an ending that has been cemented into the series for years. They'll like everything else, tie everything into that ending. Goku goes off with Oob. That is the ending.
I stand that its speculation on my part, but I strongly believe the ending of Z will be scrapped. I'm almost willing to bet on it. By the way, if it is scrapped, I doubt most would complain. In fact most would probably love it because the ending was terrible. Why else did Toriyama begin a new series from the end of the Boo saga? Every other time he continued the story of Dragon Ball, he did it from where he left off. I haven't met one person who felt the DBZ ending was a good one, having Goku leave his family yet again to go train some completely new character no fan was invested in at all. Again I'm pretty confident that ending will be trashed.

As for Goten and Trunks, they did play "a" role against Boo, but I never got any hints that they would become the next Gohan vs Cell type of deal. Yet it's different with Pan. She can very well be the new "Gohan" of the series if they do a time skip. Besides speaking of the ending of Z, Pan told Goku herself that she would train and become stronger when he came back. So she definitely loves fighting and martial arts. If you add that love of hers, and the prodigious feats we've seen her accomplish in Super already, she will definitely be a very strong character, even surpassing Gohan's potential.
I think it was fine. Goku's never been a family man to begin with. Fits his entire selfish personality perfectly, as well as Toriyama's description of him as a father/husband. He's never been really interested in sticking around them. It's highly unlikely they are going to change the ending.

I highly doubt that. Especially since saiyan children change all the time when they grow up. She's not like Goku in being a fighting obsessed meat head who only wants to fight, and would forsake his family to do so. Goten and Trunks liked training and fighting too, til they grew up and didn't like it no more. If anything it's more likely we'll see Future Trunks, who is going to be trained by Vegeta, to be something, and the future Oob as they still acknowledge his existence. Pan is likely to be strong, but nowhere near Goku or Vegeta. She could potentially surpass Gohan as he's a shell of his former self.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Zephyr » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:13 am

I understand that Gohan was super badass during the Cell Games (at that moment in particular, as a Super Saiyan 2, he's bar none among my favorite DB characters):
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However, I don't understand where the expectation that he would continue to have relevancy after all this time (which then causes the immense backlash, outcry, and disappointment of these expectations being unmet) comes from. I really don't.

We get the first glimpse of Gohan's hidden potential in Chapter 202, which premiered on November 22nd, 1988. Chapter 500, which premiered on December 20th, 1994, essentially marks the last time that Gohan is fighting as the hero, the strongest guy, the one to root for. By the end of the chapter, Goku's back to life and about to return to Earth.

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, this marks the beginning of the end for Gohan as a relevant powerhouse. After this, it's all about Goku again. Goku's the big main hero at the end of the arc, and the epilogue focuses on what Goku's doing. Then Dragon Ball GT happens, and runs for roughly two years, and it's once again, pretty much all about Goku, with Gohan really not amounting to much. Series takes a hiatus for roughly 15 years, and we get a new film, in which Goku is the focus, and Gohan once again doesn't amount to much. Then Revival of F, and now Super. All the same story.

Gohan had 6 real years of relevancy, in the eyes of the creators of Dragon Ball's stories. That can look bad or worse for Gohan, depending on how you want to look at it. You can look at it from the perspective of how long the stories have been being made. The manga ran for roughly 10.5 years, and Gohan was relevant for over half of that. By the end of it, Goku was back at the forefront, and Toei maintained that last-minute-corrected status quo for GT (canon debates not withstanding). Now we have 6 out of 12.5 years for Gohan. Down to under half. Once the franchise gets its revival (could be seen as early as 2008, but I'll look at it as 2013 to be generous), we now have 3 more years of non-relevancy on Gohan's part. 6 out of 15.5 years. That's 40%, if I'm being generous.

Now, if we want to look at things at their worst for Gohan, we can factor in the hiatus as well, since Toriyama set the stage for Gohan's treatment before the hiatus began. If we factor that in, then Gohan was only relevant for 6 out of roughly 30 years of the franchise's life. That's 20%. 1/5.

This character, while a fan favorite, was only relevant in the eyes of those creating the stories, for only 20-40% its life. This relevance ended prior to Toriyama's personal hiatus, continued for Toei's brief stint during it, and has only continued still after it. Where does the expectation then come from (that which is so high as to elicit immense disappointment) that this would change? Is it extreme wishful thinking that Toriyama would subvert one of the most obvious and given expectations imaginable? I feel like expecting Toriyama to write Gohan as a relevant character is like expecting him overhaul the series into a romance story, and draw it all himself.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by MozillaVulpix » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:39 am

Zephyr wrote:all of this
Wishful thinking. GT was something not a lot of people liked, and not using all the supporting cast was one of the reasons why. Super comes out, is set before GT, includes all the same characters, so people assume this could be a fresh start where all the issues that plagued post-95 Dragon Ball can be 'fixed' in some way. Including Gohan.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Zephyr » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:00 pm

I understand that. Though, again, Gohan got shafted in favor of Goku before even the manga ended. GT didn't ruin Gohan, it continued the trend that Toriyama himself set.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by buutenks » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:17 pm

Was gohan badass when he was getting his butt kicked by cell, and crying and going oh please stop i dont wanna hurt you lol. Or when he was getting his ass kicked again by fat buu? or when buutenks was beating his brains out? Looked pathetic to me.

Sure was cool when gohan was kicking the 18 out of cell, but character needs to be cool when he deals some damage and also takes it.

When vegeta kicks ass he is cool, when he gets his ass kicked, he is still cool lol. or goku, or future trunks.

Gohan doesnt see beyond the wall his own strength builds around him because he isnt focused on breaking that wall and surpass it. While goku and vegeta, their life purpose, their joy in life is surpassing that wall, never stop becoming stronger. Even if they get only 1% stronger, they will traing their butts off no matter what.

Goku even when his whole body was bandaged was still trying to train lol.

The key word here is ambition, goku and vegeta's goals r to become stronger, gohan is to become a scholar. WHich he succeeded and is doing what he enjoys.

That is in universe.

In real life, gohan currently isnt in toriyama's mind, so he simply doesnt want to make much of him. If he will choose to do something with gohan in the future, i can guarantee u that even if he will be a million times weaker than goku and vegeta, he will become many times more powerful than them in the span of a few hours max, because as vegeta says gohan has immense potential and the plot will demand it, and what plot wants plot gets ^^

So i am sorry to say this to all those who wish gohan would become as strong or stronger than goku or even beerus and whis, but that is not on toriyama's mind atm so u will need to wait and see if that will happen.
Zephyr wrote:I understand that. Though, again, Gohan got shafted in favor of Goku before even the manga ended. GT didn't ruin Gohan, it continued the trend that Toriyama himself set.
Ur avatar pic, just rofl, lol hit using frost as a surf board rofl just lol made my day lol

i guess he couldnt find a pillar nearby lol :lol:

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:21 pm

buutenks wrote:Was gohan badass when he was getting his butt kicked by cell, and crying and going oh please stop i dont wanna hurt you lol. Or when he was getting his ass kicked again by fat buu? or when buutenks was beating his brains out? Looked pathetic to me.

Sure was cool when gohan was kicking the 18 out of cell, but character needs to be cool when he deals some damage and also takes it.

When vegeta kicks ass he is cool, when he gets his ass kicked, he is still cool lol. or goku, or future trunks.

Gohan doesnt see beyond the wall his own strength builds around him because he isnt focused on breaking that wall and surpass it. While goku and vegeta, their life purpose, their joy in life is surpassing that wall, never stop becoming stronger. Even if they get only 1% stronger, they will traing their butts off no matter what.

Goku even when his whole body was bandaged was still trying to train lol.

The key word here is ambition, goku and vegeta's goals r to become stronger, gohan is to become a scholar. WHich he succeeded and is doing what he enjoys.

That is in universe.

In real life, gohan currently isnt in toriyama's mind, so he simply doesnt want to make much of him. If he will choose to do something with gohan in the future, i can guarantee u that even if he will be a million times weaker than goku and vegeta, he will become many times more powerful than them in the span of a few hours max, because as vegeta says gohan has immense potential and the plot will demand it, and what plot wants plot gets ^^

So i am sorry to say this to all those who wish gohan would become as strong or stronger than goku or even beerus and whis, but that is not on toriyama's mind atm so u will need to wait and see if that will happen.
Zephyr wrote:I understand that. Though, again, Gohan got shafted in favor of Goku before even the manga ended. GT didn't ruin Gohan, it continued the trend that Toriyama himself set.
Ur avatar pic, just rofl, lol hit using frost as a surf board rofl just lol made my day lol

i guess he couldnt find a pillar nearby lol :lol:
One of the best parts of the series is watching Vegeta getting beat up due to his reactions.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by buutenks » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:47 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote: One of the best parts of the series is watching Vegeta getting beat up due to his reactions.
Indeed. Especially vs cell, was a bit amusing to me. Was like oh crap, think i have made an error lol maybe it wasnt such a good idea to let him absorb 18 lol. vegeta was sweating all over lol.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:25 pm

^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Kishido » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:26 pm

TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by TekTheNinja » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:46 pm

Kishido wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well
True...

I hadn't really thought about this before, but that's another problem with Super. No one ever seems to get what's coming to them when they do something stupid. Like when Vegeta made Piccolo forfeit so he could fight Frost just because of how he looked like Frieza. I wouldn't have been quite as angry with that as I was if this came back to bite him, but instead Vegeta got a three winning streak where he pretty much curbstomped, and Goku was actually rewarded with the chance to come back into the tournament. Everyone was being a selfish asshole, but no one got punished for it.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by emperior » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:16 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
Kishido wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well
True...

I hadn't really thought about this before, but that's another problem with Super. No one ever seems to get what's coming to them when they do something stupid. Like when Vegeta made Piccolo forfeit so he could fight Frost just because of how he looked like Frieza. I wouldn't have been quite as angry with that as I was if this came back to bite him, but instead Vegeta got a three winning streak where he pretty much curbstomped, and Goku was actually rewarded with the chance to come back into the tournament. Everyone was being a selfish asshole, but no one got punished for it.

That's to show Goku and Vegeta are so powerful they have little consequences to their actions as of now, they are almost on par with the gods. Hopefully we will see them paying for their errors
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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by HeroR » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:20 pm

Kishido wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well
He got shoot by a mook with a laser. That's pretty embarrassing. He also got his butt handed to him by Beerus after he challenged him, despite King Kai's warnings.
TekTheNinja wrote: True...

I hadn't really thought about this before, but that's another problem with Super. No one ever seems to get what's coming to them when they do something stupid. Like when Vegeta made Piccolo forfeit so he could fight Frost just because of how he looked like Frieza. I wouldn't have been quite as angry with that as I was if this came back to bite him, but instead Vegeta got a three winning streak where he pretty much curbstomped, and Goku was actually rewarded with the chance to come back into the tournament. Everyone was being a selfish asshole, but no one got punished for it.
Piccolo would have lost to Megetta even if Vegeta didn't forced him to forfeit, so I don't know what consequences you can have given Vegeta. So nothing was lost by Piccolo losing. Piccolo was screwed the moment he went second to Goku. And Goku came back into the tournament and still didn't beat Hit.

Also, it's a tournament. The worse that would have happened is that their planet would have moved, which no one saw as a punishment.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by namekiansaiyan » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:53 pm

HeroR wrote:
Kishido wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well
He got shoot by a mook with a laser. That's pretty embarrassing. He also got his butt handed to him by Beerus after he challenged him, despite King Kai's warnings.
TekTheNinja wrote: True...

I hadn't really thought about this before, but that's another problem with Super. No one ever seems to get what's coming to them when they do something stupid. Like when Vegeta made Piccolo forfeit so he could fight Frost just because of how he looked like Frieza. I wouldn't have been quite as angry with that as I was if this came back to bite him, but instead Vegeta got a three winning streak where he pretty much curbstomped, and Goku was actually rewarded with the chance to come back into the tournament. Everyone was being a selfish asshole, but no one got punished for it.
Piccolo would have lost to Megetta even if Vegeta didn't forced him to forfeit, so I don't know what consequences you can have given Vegeta. So nothing was lost by Piccolo losing. Piccolo was screwed the moment he went second to Goku. And Goku came back into the tournament and still didn't beat Hit.

Also, it's a tournament. The worse that would have happened is that their planet would have moved, which no one saw as a punishment.
You do not know if Piccolo would have lost he could have possibly be able to beat both Magetta and Cabba. Magetta is not good in the air and hates being insulted which I am sure Piccolo would have said something.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:54 pm

They are literally fighting Gods and doing illegal time travel. There are no consequences to anything, especially with Whis and Beerus around. More importantly they now how the Omniking who can literally destroy multiple universes at will. If he decided Black was too much of a threat then Poof. Remember in DBZ when we find out literally the Gods can't help them because the threat was so great? Not now, especially not that Goku And the King of the everything are on like a first name basis now... There is literally no consequences to them failing at this point, yet somehow Future Trunks ends up with the worse life possible...

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:27 pm

TheMikado wrote:They are literally fighting Gods and doing illegal time travel. There are no consequences to anything, especially with Whis and Beerus around. More importantly they now how the Omniking who can literally destroy multiple universes at will. If he decided Black was too much of a threat then Poof. Remember in DBZ when we find out literally the Gods can't help them because the threat was so great? Not now, especially not that Goku And the King of the everything are on like a first name basis now... There is literally no consequences to them failing at this point, yet somehow Future Trunks ends up with the worse life possible...
Except I assume no-one knows where the King of All lives. He might not even reside in U7. He could have a complete Universe to himself for all we know.

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Re: Forget about Gohan, what remains are only memories

Post by sintzu » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:05 pm

Kishido wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ I like Vegeta but one of my favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
Something Goku in Super should get through as well
He's the main character so there's no way they'll make him look bad no matter what he does.
TheMikado wrote:My favorite parts about DBZ was that the characters generally ended up paying for the stupid things they would try to do one way or another.
And Goku didn't have main character immunity so if he messed up which he did, he'd pay for it like anyone else.
TheMikado wrote:Remember in DBZ when we find out literally the Gods can't help them because the threat was so great ?
The threats were the best thing about Z cause they always got worse and made the heroes go through hell just to survive.
HeroR wrote:He got shoot by a mook with a laser. That's pretty embarrassing.
It didn't matter cause he won in the end and there was no consequence for his mistake.

What would've been embarrassing is Whis telling him that he and Vegeta chose to toy with Freeza instead of taking him seriously and for that he won't help them cause it was their actions that destroyed the planet.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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