"Future" Trunks Arc Timeline & Paradox Discussion Thread

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I'm pretty sure that you're the one that doesn't know what their talking about.

That's just too bad then. Though since you think that Present Zamasu and Black are 2 different people despite it being clearly stated otherwise, despite it clearly being stated that Beerus split the timelines which invalidates any theory about Black coming from an "alternate main timeline" caused by Trunks, I'm not sure how much water your claims hold.

That's enough. You can continue your discussion on the timeline material itself, provided it's more polite than your above dismissal of Terez, but this part of the conversation is done. Cipher typed up a more than adequate reply, which you conveniently seem to have ignored, presenting you with evidence and examples that explain why you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I'm going to ask (not actually asking) that you refrain from posting on the subject when you don't seem to understand it.

I tried to be "polite", but if you are going to keep ignoring points you are effectively wearing out my patience. Cipher didn't say anything that you weren't already saying and I already clarified why it was wrong. Again, refrain from restating defeated points and there won't be a problem.

[Cipher]

I tried to be "polite", but if you are going to keep ignoring points you are effectively wearing out my patience. Cipher didn't say anything that you weren't already saying and I already clarified why it was wrong. Again, refrain from restating defeated points and there won't be a problem.

I pointed you to a film-industry position that literally has "continuity" in the title, offered a more thorough difference between the concepts of continuity and canon, and now I'm providing multiple dictionary definitions because you're being wrong as hell about a phrase that come up in critical discussion all the time, and in the name of discourse, I can't abide by that:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continuity (Definition three)

Google:

2. the maintenance of continuous action and self-consistent detail in the various scenes of a movie or broadcast.
"a continuity error"

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/continuity (The second definition, which refers more to the object of a detailed script used to track consistency; the root of the concept of "different continuities" between fictions, even two versions of the same story, which maintain their own internal consistency without overlapping; two versions of Super in this case)

I'll take a warning over this because for whatever reason it's my hill to die on tonight.

[Terez]

I'll take a warning over this because for whatever reason it's my hill to die on tonight.

Now I've got "Fool on the Hill" stuck in my head. Of course, this seems to be a trend for me. Yesterday it was a discussion on Facebook about roundabouts and "Penny Lane". Last week, it was Super surpassing GT and "When I'm 64".

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I tried to be "polite", but if you are going to keep ignoring points you are effectively wearing out my patience. Cipher didn't say anything that you weren't already saying and I already clarified why it was wrong. Again, refrain from restating defeated points and there won't be a problem.

Your fallacious points are being ignored because, unlike the other members proving you wrong with dictionary definitions and links, you're not posting any actual evidence of your claims from a source other than yourself. Again, if you don't want to concede the fact that you're wrong, that's fine. However, your refusal to do so means there's no productive discussion to be had here. Therefore the conversation on this matter is over.

Further posts will result in account strikes being issued, which can and do add up to temporary or permanent bans, revoking access to the full Kanzenshuu site.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I tried to be "polite", but if you are going to keep ignoring points you are effectively wearing out my patience. Cipher didn't say anything that you weren't already saying and I already clarified why it was wrong. Again, refrain from restating defeated points and there won't be a problem.

I pointed you to a film-industry position that literally has "continuity" in the title, offered a more thorough difference between the concepts of continuity and canon, and now I'm providing multiple dictionary definitions because you're being wrong as hell about a phrase that come up in critical discussion all the time, and in the name of discourse, I can't abide by that:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continuity (Definition three)

Google:

2. the maintenance of continuous action and self-consistent detail in the various scenes of a movie or broadcast.
"a continuity error"

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/continuity (The second definition, which refers more to the object of a detailed script used to track consistency; the root of the concept of "different continuities" between fictions, even two versions of the same story, which maintain their own internal consistency without overlapping; two versions of Super in this case)

I'll take a warning over this because for whatever reason it's my hill to die on tonight.

I already know the difference between "canon" and "continuity". Canon is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Stop bringing it up.

What does a continuity manager have to do with this discussion? Absolutely nothing. I already know that producers ideally want to keep their work consistent, but in no way is that a criteria and it does not apply here.
GT was not made with Super in mind, yet GT and Battle of Gods are stated to be in the same continuity. Only official word is a determining factor in the continuity here, not consistency within the work itself.

It doesn't change the fact that both Resurrection of F the movie and the Super Arc are placed in the same part of the same continuity story wise which is after the Battle of Gods Arc. That's the only official placement and criteria given. These abstract, made up concepts like movie continuity, manga continuity and anime continuity do not exist on an official level, therefore these terms are irrelevant when discussing these media.

Dragon Ball Super the anime and the manga take place in the same era of the continuity, which is the 10 year period after the Boo Saga. There is no separate continuities here. For all intents and purposes, they are interchangeable.

I tried to be "polite", but if you are going to keep ignoring points you are effectively wearing out my patience. Cipher didn't say anything that you weren't already saying and I already clarified why it was wrong. Again, refrain from restating defeated points and there won't be a problem.

Your fallacious points are being ignored because, unlike the other members proving you wrong with dictionary definitions and links, you're not posting any actual evidence of your claims from a source other than yourself. Again, if you don't want to concede the fact that you're wrong, that's fine. However, your refusal to do so means there's no productive discussion to be had here. Therefore the conversation on this matter is over.

Further posts will result in account strikes being issued, which can and do add up to temporary or permanent bans, revoking access to the full Kanzenshuu site.

What I said wasn't any different from the definition of continuity. Nice try though.
Again, don't make up nonsensical terms that don't exist on any official level and expect that argument to be take seriously. I already ended the conversation, so it just seems like you want the last word at this point.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Until now I thought I had it all figured out but now with the latest episodes I've once again become confused.

[jjgp1112]

So here's how I see it:

The period right before Trunks travels back in time is the last point where there's no confusion or time splits. At this point, Black's timeline and the main timeline are one in the same. In the near future, Zamasu views Goku's performance in the Universe 6 tournament, challenges him to a fight, and gets beaten. From there he goes nuts and sets his plan into motion. After succeeding, he uses the time ring - this is an important detail, because as he said in episode 56, his use of the time ring makes him immune to changes to the past.

Because "future" Zamasu/Black uses a time ring to go to an already existing alternate timeline, he exists in his own little bubble beyond time and space. When Trunks goes back to the past, he doesn't create a split since he's going to the same alternate timeline he'd visited back in the Android saga. But he was in a point before Zamasu executed his plan. So basically, Black's use of the time ring creates a minor paradox. There's no loop going on, it's just that we have two present Zamasus - one that was killed, one that succeeded and abuses the time rings.

[Terez]

After succeeding, he uses the time ring - this is an important detail, because as he said in episode 56, his use of the time ring makes him immune to changes to the past.

I feel the need to reiterate that Black never said this. He said he could no longer be affected by what's happening in the past, but that's business as usual when a new timeline is created.

[Terez]

Judging by Geekdom101's latest video on manga chapter 18, which is apparently based on Herms's translations (?), there should be some more detail on the time paradox incoming. When they go to kill Zamasu, I believe it's Whis who asks, wouldn't that create another timeline? Which would seem to confirm the idea that Beerus himself causes the timelines to diverge...but, there's nothing in that suggestion about gods killing other gods, Whis reversing time, or the Time Ring, or any of that. It's just a divergent event.

If this is true (I imagine a full translation would be more helpful), then it still raises a lot of questions about the butterfly effect. In the anime, Whis explained the butterfly effect as we know it, i.e. the smallest change (even picking a flower) should cause the timelines to diverge; it doesn't require a big event like Beerus.

[Terra-jin]

So Beerus really did create a new timeline when he killed Zamasu. Too bad. I don't see how it can make sense like this...

I guess they didn't want the audience too ask too many questions about time travel, which is a shame because Dragonball really had a novel thing going with the alternate timelines.

[Marlowe89]

Yeah. It looks like I was right, although frankly I didn't want to be. The Zamasu we were following in the present is the exact same Zamasu who would become Black, but Beerus himself somehow split the timelines when he destroyed him.

Of course it still makes no sense whatsoever, but at least from a narrative perspective Present Zamasu's role in the story wasn't completely useless and we were actually following Black's descent throughout the arc.