Unpopular DB opinions

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RandomGuy96
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:52 pm

His father's a brilliant scientist? :wink:
Of course. He invented the fake moon.

(It seems that the recent Q and A with Toriyama 'canonized' the "average fighter" part of that statement at least, so who knows?)
For all we know he could be a Rainmaker-esque savant. Or he could have taken correspondence courses over the duration of the series. We just don't know. I wouldn't buy it because it's at odds with what we do know, but there's nothing in the story to contradict it either.
Toriyama did say something about Goku being dim-witted/lacking formal education. And this isn't nearly the same thing as Yamcha being a cheater.
Yamucha is frequently shown not just to be scared of women but also desiring settling down with a wife and family. Sure, none of those things necessarily keep him from being capable of cheating, and there's nothing in the story to contradict it either, but it's such a bizarrely out of left-field thing. And not in the sense of what you're talking about either. It's not treated as a shock or a twist. It's not any kind of dramatic irony that Blooma constantly hangs off of other guys and seemingly , but it's the constantly dogged Yamucha who turns out to be the bad guy in the relationship after all! No, we don't get any of that. It's just a completely random factoid that that's not organic to the character or to the plot. It only exists to push Blooma and Vegeta together while ensuring that Blooma doesn't look unsympathetic.
As rereboy notes, Yamcha's characteristics make him realistically more likely to cheat, not less.
I don't think it's impossible. It's certainly possible. But there's nothing in the story to back it up. It's very poor storytelling. It's character assassination. And it's certainly not the only time in this story arc that it happens. Nearly every character in this arc is given ample opportunity to act out of character and do stupid things. And I'll complain about those too. But it'd be just as plausible to say out of nowhere that Kuririn cheated on #18. Hell, Kuririn is given much more lascivious tendencies than Yamucha, and I still wouldn't believe that either without any context.
Are you complaining about it, or trying to disregard the author and pretend it didn't happen?
Hey, at least I know who Tao Pai Pai is. That's more than the author can say. :wink:
Did the author forget, or did he just consider Tao extremely minor? Because he kinda was.
In all seriousness, though, I'm by no means calling for 'Death of the Author.' But the author is NOT god, either.
Tori-bot actually is the official canon God of the DBU.
Just because he is the author doesn't make him infallible. It doesn't make him immune to poor choices, poor storytelling, or just having an off day. There's no reason to automatically assume that every decision he makes is in line with the multitude of characters he's created, especially when he's just making it up as he goes along. And authors can just up and randomly change their minds. J.K. Rowling, who plots much more diligently and, I'd say, cares much more about her characters, just made headlines by saying she wasn't sure if putting Ron and Hermione together was correct.
The author has never contradicted himself on Yamcha's cheater status, either in interviews or the series. He's always supported it.
When a decision looks like it was made just because it was the easiest way to push his current agenda (Trunks) along, then I feel it's a legitimate criticism to make.
That's the thing: are you saying it's poor story telling, or are you pretending that it didn't happen? Because if so, I can bring up other instances of what I consider detrimental OOC behavior, like Buu being turned into an idiot so Vegetto can look cool, or Goku making Goten and Trunks clean up his mess in the Buu Saga.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:59 pm

Well I don't deny Yamcha cheated on Bulma, its just the reasoning behind it that irks me. Having Yamcha cheat on Bulma and Bulma leave him for a character she barely knows just so we can have another Saiyan in the series. Bleh.

Also, he just considered Tao a minor character.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Saiga » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Whether it's OOC or poor story telling is a completely different issue to whether that actually happened. And there are no grounds to assume it didn't - if it wasn't enough for Trunks to say so, Toriyama himself said so without being prompted. It's a completely different issue than Goku being an astrophysicist, actually, to believe Yamcha is completely faithful is to believe Goku is an astrophysicist - it's not completely impossible, but goes against what we've been told about the character both in the story and the interview.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:08 pm

I like Battle of Z.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:36 pm

Kid Buu wrote:Well I don't deny Yamcha cheated on Bulma, its just the reasoning behind it that irks me. Having Yamcha cheat on Bulma and Bulma leave him for a character she barely knows just so we can have another Saiyan in the series. Bleh.

Also, he just considered Tao a minor character.
To be fair. Over-time Bulma did get to know Vegeta. I mean in filler they had some interactions and in the manga Vegeta gravity trained.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by rereboy » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:05 pm

Kid Buu wrote:Well I don't deny Yamcha cheated on Bulma, its just the reasoning behind it that irks me. Having Yamcha cheat on Bulma and Bulma leave him for a character she barely knows just so we can have another Saiyan in the series. Bleh.

Also, he just considered Tao a minor character.
Trunks was the result of a one night stand. Bulma denies being in any kind of relationship with Vegeta when she presents her baby to everyone and Vegeta doesn't even care if she and the baby are in danger.

Only after Future Trunks died and was revived Vegeta realized that he had grown fond of having a son. He and Bulma formed some kind of relationship based on that during the 7 years Goku was dead.

So no, Bulma didn't leave Yamcha for Vegeta. They probably fought and broke up like they had been implied to do before and she hooked up with Vegeta one day because he was there and, without planning it, she got pregnant. She and Vegeta didn't form a relationship right away just because of that, Bulma and Yamcha could have gotten back together, there was nothing really stopping them. But they just didn't want to. And eventually she and Vegeta bonded.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:31 pm

I like Goku more as an adult than as a kid.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Saiga » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:34 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:I like Goku more as an adult than as a kid.
I'm the same. Kid Goku can also really irritate me at times.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ninja Murasaki » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:05 pm

Saiga wrote:Whether it's OOC or poor story telling is a completely different issue to whether that actually happened. And there are no grounds to assume it didn't - if it wasn't enough for Trunks to say so, Toriyama himself said so without being prompted. It's a completely different issue than Goku being an astrophysicist, actually, to believe Yamcha is completely faithful is to believe Goku is an astrophysicist - it's not completely impossible, but goes against what we've been told about the character both in the story and the interview.
We already know your stated dislike of Yamcha, and as said earlier, you can't say its a fact it happened.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:07 pm

Ninja Murasaki wrote:
Saiga wrote:Whether it's OOC or poor story telling is a completely different issue to whether that actually happened. And there are no grounds to assume it didn't - if it wasn't enough for Trunks to say so, Toriyama himself said so without being prompted. It's a completely different issue than Goku being an astrophysicist, actually, to believe Yamcha is completely faithful is to believe Goku is an astrophysicist - it's not completely impossible, but goes against what we've been told about the character both in the story and the interview.
We already know your stated dislike of Yamcha, and as said earlier, you can't say its a fact it happened.
But Toriyama can.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ninja Murasaki » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:10 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Ninja Murasaki wrote:
Saiga wrote:Whether it's OOC or poor story telling is a completely different issue to whether that actually happened. And there are no grounds to assume it didn't - if it wasn't enough for Trunks to say so, Toriyama himself said so without being prompted. It's a completely different issue than Goku being an astrophysicist, actually, to believe Yamcha is completely faithful is to believe Goku is an astrophysicist - it's not completely impossible, but goes against what we've been told about the character both in the story and the interview.
We already know your stated dislike of Yamcha, and as said earlier, you can't say its a fact it happened.
But Toriyama can.
We got a second hand interview where Furuya mentioned how Toriyama dismissed his question.

And a newer first hand interview where Toriyama gave info that directly contradicted Yamcha having affairs.

EDIT:
RandomGuy96 wrote: Like how fans will try to white wash Yamcha
Its very much the opposite.
Last edited by Ninja Murasaki on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Goken, I don't see the CM Punk/Vegeta parallel.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:11 pm

Would Randy Orton work better? I havent watched wrestling on a regular basis in years.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:13 pm

Kid Buu wrote:Would Randy Orton work better? I havent watched wrestling on a regular basis in years.
I was thinking more along the lines of Austin. Vegeta's not as cool, but I think it's more apt.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:21 pm

ABED wrote:
Kid Buu wrote:Would Randy Orton work better? I havent watched wrestling on a regular basis in years.
I was thinking more along the lines of Austin, not as cool, but I think it's more apt.
Well Austin..the only person who was as popular as him was Hogan and The Rock. People love all 3. But here why I choose Punk.
Vegeta and Punk both are anti heroes. Both get cheered as a bad guy(Punk mocked a dead Paul Bearer and still got cheered against Taker and Majin Vegeta was epic). Both run their mouth a lot only to get beat up. Both have ego shoved up their asses. And if you met Punk IRL he acts like a jackass similar to Vegeta.

Cena - Goku. Cena is getting booed to the point that WWE made a shirt about it...three times. More like 70(Boo)-30(Cheer). While Goku is NOTHING like that. It's the closest a GOOD guy can get(If you're a good guy who's booed then it's normally 100% boos in wrestling). So I choose Cena. Who good and all(Like Goku) but some people hate him. While everyone got their haters. It's just my opinion.


Kid Buu wrote:Would Randy Orton work better? I havent watched wrestling on a regular basis in years.
Fans hate Orton now. I don't mean heel heat. I mean go away heat. Fans pretty much hijacked Royal Rumble with D.Bryan chants. This pass Raw was hijacked with Cm Punk chants. They even kick people out the arena cause they said Cm Punk. They took almost all Cm punk signs. Fans are rebelling against the product cause it's the same old shit since 07.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Why do they hate Orton? He was popular when I was a fan.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:24 pm

Kid Buu wrote:Why do they hate Orton? He was popular when I was a fan.
Taking it to PM since I don't want to ruin topic.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:34 pm

We got a second hand interview where Furuya mentioned how Toriyama dismissed his question.

And a newer first hand interview where Toriyama gave info that directly contradicted Yamcha having affairs.
So we got direction confirmation from Toriyama that Yamcha didn't cheat? Where?
Its very much the opposite.
So what are you, Gyt, and Gaffer doing right now?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ninja Murasaki » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:39 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote: So we got direction confirmation from Toriyama that Yamcha didn't cheat? Where?
Toriyama wrote: Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired.
Quite impossible for him to have multiple affairs when he can barely function around the opposite sex.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Its very much the opposite.
So what are you, Gyt, and Gaffer doing right now?[/quote]

Responding to the character bashing Yamcha typically receives from fans.

Earlier, you just made some posts in this topic that blatantly bashed Yamcha.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:42 pm

Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired.

Quite impossible for him to have multiple affairs when he can barely function around the opposite sex.
What the hell? Where does it say that? It says that he's "not good" around women, and that he's "nervous" around a non-ideal partner, but that doesn't mean he can't have an affair at all, or can "barley function". That's preposterous. He doesn't have to be good around women or confident around them just to get some sex, since some would throw themselves at him. It's not "impossible" at all. So no, there is no direct contradiction to Yamcha being an adulterer.
Responding to the character bashing Yamcha typically receives from fans.
Really? Cause it seems like you're trying to say that you know more about the story than the author does.
Earlier, you just made some posts in this topic that blatantly bashed Yamcha
This is a big thread, you're going to have to specify.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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