Complete BT3 Info and Discussion Thread [UPDATED 10/02/07]

kaioken12 · Post by **kaioken12** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:03 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:
Sshadow5001 wrote:Does Granpa Gohan have an alternate costume other than a pallet swap
One costume with the fox mask, one without.
In Sparking Neo he only loses the mask when he gets battle damaged. Isn't that still the case with Meteor, or did they actually make it a selectable skin? Also is it supposed to be a fox mask or a cat mask? I always thought it was a cat.

It is still the same.
damage = no mask
alt = palette swap...

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:16 pm

... This thread will have more posts than CE has years soon...

Re: fighting engine:
If every fighting game out there followed traditional fighter mechanics, then there wouldn't be that much different between games; it'd be pretty easy then to just make a program to generate any group of characters you want. Oh wait...
And since DBZ has... different fighting mechanics on its own, it stands to reason that its games would have some "original" mechanics as well.
That said... 2d Fighter DBZ is awesome, and the sparking fighting engine has plenty of room for more creative things (melee in particular could stand a huge upgrade; think 'Legends' where the standard attack button launched a rapid-fire combo instead of a single attack; think also of the unused button combinations that could serve for more martialartsy specials or something...).
Though now that I think about it, Vs mode is more fun in Sparking, unless the Legends battle had smaller numbers of fighters (lots of people fighting at once = lots of noise...).

[edit] ... how did two consecutive letters disappear from "Sparking" when I originally typed this?

[/edit]

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:50 pm

kaioken12 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote: One costume with the fox mask, one without.
In Sparking Neo he only loses the mask when he gets battle damaged. Isn't that still the case with Meteor, or did they actually make it a selectable skin? Also is it supposed to be a fox mask or a cat mask? I always thought it was a cat.
It is still the same.
damage = no mask
alt = palette swap...

Ah, my bad. That's what I get for giving advice on a game I've never played... But I could've sworn I'd seen a YouTube'd battle where he started without the mask. Whatev.

Carry on, gents!

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:14 am

caejones wrote:... This thread will have more posts than CE has years soon...

Re: fighting engine:
If every fighting game out there followed traditional fighter mechanics, then there wouldn't be that much different between games; it'd be pretty easy then to just make a program to generate any group of characters you want. Oh wait...
And since DBZ has... different fighting mechanics on its own, it stands to reason that its games would have some "original" mechanics as well.
That said... 2d Fighter DBZ is awesome, and the sparking fighting engine has plenty of room for more creative things (melee in particular could stand a huge upgrade; think 'Legends' where the standard attack button launched a rapid-fire combo instead of a single attack; think also of the unused button combinations that could serve for more martialartsy specials or something...).
Though now that I think about it, Vs mode is more fun in Sparking, unless the Legends battle had smaller numbers of fighters (lots of people fighting at once = lots of noise...).

[edit] ... how did two consecutive letters disappear from "Sparking" when I originally typed this? [/edit]

Haha ... you used Common Era. Do you also use BCE: Before Common Era?

Back to fighting games:

If you have a type of fighting engine that has survived the test of time, Street Fighter & King of Fighters, you really don't need to change much. The MUGEN system seems to be an indicator of this (I haven't actually played them but with all the Capcom and SNK characters I see featured I would tnink it uses a lot of quarter circles and half circles and dragon punch motions). I actually kinda wish that they would just update and adapt the Marvel vs. Capcom 2 system to Dragonball.

Do, however, believe that the Sparking! system works well for a Dragonball game, just not a fighting game in the one-on-one sense of the genre.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:05 am

Do, however, believe that the Sparking! system works well for a Dragonball game, just not a fighting game in the one-on-one sense of the genre.

I've said it before but Sagas + Sparking = What I want to see. Apply a few tweaks to the controls, enable having large groups of enemies on screen (and be able to fight them properly), make a few large levels to traverse, and you'd have a kick ass action game.

Imagine zooming through the air, above a forest, toward some problem (a high unknown power, a city being attacked, whatever) when suddenly a couple dozen guys come flying up from the forest and start attacking you. So you start beating them back, one by one, but there's just too many and more are coming. So you move back some to get some distance, target several enemies, and then let loose with an energy barrage attacking taking out half of your enemies. Those left come charging back in but you use a Solar Flare to distract them and pick them off before they can recover. And then you're back on your way.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:24 am

*seconds Xyex's idea* Meh, some time recently I tried to come up with a way to merge the controls successfully... and I don't think I wrote them down anywhere. -_-. But I did get to have a dream in which I was playing said game, so I win. As for everyone else... ^_^

Well, when we talk about the surviving fihter engines... the point that they're clearly solid since they've lasted is a good one. Still, you'll have to modify some things--energy is a big thing in DBZ, powering up, special defenses, all that stuff. So you'd have to add that somehow to the existing framework.
After a while though... I think Marvel Vs Capcom (the first one; the second looks and I haven't met yet short of watching others play) is almost templatist--almost, but the characters still play significantly differently. In some respects, the sparking engine simplifies that and then pumps it up with DBZ features and lots of characters, so variability dies. Still good for emulating the series, I guess (though I'd still not mind the melee combat to be more like the speed f Legends...), though.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:24 am

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:59 am

(Thread postcount >= the current year. XD)
I'll say it again: I am confident that I, having little to no access to decent character models for DB characters, could make a better game than sagas using a few semesters of 100-151 level programming classes. Whether or not that will finally happen some day... *shrug*

Totally absolutely agree with Kunzait on 2d Vs 3d. We have "Three d ruins the 2d engines that rule!", and "2d is soooo old and obsolete!" when in reality they're more a matter of style. Actually that encourages me to come up with a 1d game design that doesn't suck... but now I'm just pushing it. XD

Bah, let's start our own gaming company and utilize our tiny profits to merge with Atari to gain access to the DBZ game license.

. It can be done! Believe it! </narutard>

Humpski · Post by **Humpski** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:02 am

Did I read someone saying on this thread that costumes only get damaged in beam struggles? Cause if so that's untrue.

All you have to do to get a damaged costume is get hit by an UB attack.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:56 am

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:12 pm

If I could only see the damage through the horrible youtube quality...

kaioken12 · Post by **kaioken12** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:32 pm

Drunken Master wrote:If I could only see the damage through the horrible youtube quality...

Yeah, true...
But believe me, Akkuman's attack does "realistic" damage for evil characters

Alright, not as realistic as it was described in the manga, but hey, it's a fighting game ^^

I wondered why Freeza should be less evil than Piccolo Damaio (Sr.) though, but anyway, I like this variable damage

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:47 pm

kaioken12 wrote:I wondered why Freeza should be less evil than Piccolo Damaio (Sr.)

I guess it's because Freeza, while certainly malicious, sadistic, and greedy, still wasn't literally "evil incarnate."

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:15 pm

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:20 pm

Or Buu wich is made to be pure evil, but I believe that Janemba is probably the one who takes the most, because he is an amalgam of evil through the ages. Daimao may be the evil part of someone, but Janemba IS evil incarnate, literally.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:17 pm

DNA wrote:Or Buu wich is made to be pure evil, but I believe that Janemba is probably the one who takes the most, because he is an amalgam of evil through the ages. Daimao may be the evil part of someone, but Janemba IS evil incarnate, literally.

Well Daimao, Janemba, Hildegarn, and the skinny grey Boo are all litaral incarnations of evil, and Akkuman's attack affects them all equally.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:41 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:
kaioken12 wrote:I wondered why Freeza should be less evil than Piccolo Damaio (Sr.)
I guess it's because Freeza, while certainly malicious, sadistic, and greedy, still wasn't literally "evil incarnate."
Yeah I second that. Freeza, megalomaniacal sociopath though he was, was still a mortal being with some shriveled undeveloped sliver of a conscience buried somewhere deep down, as evidenced in the anime by the 0.2 seconds he spends reflecting while floating in space with half his body missing that maybe just maybe he was in the wrong for being responsible for mass genocide after mass genocide his whole life (the moment quickly passes when King Cold finds him and saves him).

Reminds me of the time Magneto buried the Red Skull alive. The Skull was just about to develop a conscience when his main henchman saved him and aborted that.

Well Daimao, Janemba, Hildegarn, and the skinny grey Boo are all litaral incarnations of evil, and Akkuman's attack affects them all equally.

Shouldn't Kid Buu be in that bunch as well?

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:36 pm

I don't think they really got the point of that attack. It makes the evil expand in you even if you have just an ounce of it in your soul. So Master Roshi and Frieza would both explode despite one being less evil then the other. Basically you'd have to be 100% pure of heart not combust from your own evil. But I suppose it IS a videogame.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:07 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:I don't think they really got the point of that attack. It makes the evil expand in you even if you have just an ounce of it in your soul. So Master Roshi and Freeza would both explode despite one being less evil then the other. Basically you'd have to be 100% pure of heart not combust from your own evil. But I suppose it IS a videogame.

And Special Beam Cannon should punch your heart out through the back of your chest.

Kanzenshuu

Complete BT3 Info and Discussion Thread [UPDATED 10/02/07]

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