The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan post Freeza zenkai vs. Vegeta pre Dende zenkai

[h0kuten]

I typically think that after every rage boost Gohan got on Namek, he kept. So with him approaching 1 million he stomps Vegeta, Lol.

[Captain Space]

Probably Gohan. Even pre-zenkai, he caught Freeza pretty seriously off-balance and I don't see Vegeta doing that. Post-zenkai his power should probably be even higher than in his rage-mode of a few minutes before.

[ZombieVito]

Gohan post Freeza zenkai vs. Vegeta pre Dende zenkai

Easily Gohan. He was very close to Vegeta before [250K vs 200K] that the zenkai without a doubt made him stronger than him.

New battles:

Shisami [pre training] vs Dodoria.
Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma vs Dodoria.
Tagoma vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma & Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [monster form].

[Lord Beerus]

Shisami [pre training] vs Dodoria.
Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma vs Dodoria.
Tagoma vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma & Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [monster form].

Is there any indication in ROF that Shisami trained after reviving Freeza and before going to Earth? Because honestly, I think he's just that strong from the get-go. And in that regard, he stomps in every match up.

As for the rest:
- Tagoma vs Dodoria could go either way. Dodoria does have a more brutish side to him, so he may go for the kill quicker. So I'm backing Dodoria
- I think Zarbon may take this one. He's a much more refined fighter
- Shisami alone stomps Zarbon

[RandomGuy96]

Shisami [pre training] vs Dodoria.
Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma vs Dodoria.
Tagoma vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma & Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [monster form].

Is there any indication in ROF that Shisami trained after reviving Freeza and before going to Earth? Because honestly, I think he's just that strong from the get-go. And in that regard, he stomps in every match up.

If by "that strong" you mean "as strong as Zarbon or so", then yeah. He's said to be Zarbon level when he first shows up and is clearly portrayed as being weaker than 1st form Freeza. Yet, as you said, there's no indication he ever trained. Piccolo's just extremely weak in this movie, like everyone else who can be challenged by guys weaker than Cymbal, or rendered scared shitless by a power level of 1.3 million.

[Galan007]

or rendered scared shitless by a power level of 1.3 million.

Was this actually stated in the Japanese dub, or are you just going by that line from the Brazilian dub that people started clinging to for some reason?

[dbgtFO]

or rendered scared shitless by a power level of 1.3 million.

Was this actually stated in the Japanese dub, or are you just going by that line from the Brazilian dub that people started clinging to for some reason?

We've known about that line since April, where only the japanese version was around and yes it originates in the original japanese.

[Lord Beerus]

Shisami [pre training] vs Dodoria.
Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma vs Dodoria.
Tagoma vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma & Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [monster form].

Is there any indication in ROF that Shisami trained after reviving Freeza and before going to Earth? Because honestly, I think he's just that strong from the get-go. And in that regard, he stomps in every match up.

If by "that strong" you mean "as strong as Zarbon or so", then yeah. He's said to be Zarbon level when he first shows up and is clearly portrayed as being weaker than 1st form Freeza. Yet, as you said, there's no indication he ever trained. Piccolo's just extremely weak in this movie, like everyone else who can be challenged by guys weaker than Cymbal, or rendered scared shitless by a power level of 1.3 million.

I just don't buy the whole "Piccolo was tired" BS. That's one of the main issues I have with the movie. How could Piccolo's stamina get significantly drained from stomping several low level grunts of Freeza's Army that even freakin Master Roshi was able to dispose of with ease? It's makes no damn sense. I just think that Shisami was stronger that Piccolo from the get go. Hopefully Super fixes this issue.

[supercat]

Gohan post Freeza zenkai vs. Vegeta pre Dende zenkai

Easily Gohan. He was very close to Vegeta before [250K vs 200K] that the zenkai without a doubt made him stronger than him.

New battles:

Shisami [pre training] vs Dodoria.
Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma vs Dodoria.
Tagoma vs Zarbon [No monster form].
Tagoma & Shisami [pre training] vs Zarbon [monster form].

-Judging by how Shisami was able to progress to the point of being able to give a Perfect Cell tier opponent a good fight, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a lot more up his sleeve than a senseless brute like Dodoria.

-Both Zarbon and Dodoria came across as a pair of useless lackeys who did nothing more than bully weaker opponents around.

-Again, I don't find anything spectacular about Dodoria whatsoever. Other than his aggression, I can't think of anything else that may give him the edge in battle against an opponent who could match him in strength. As a matter of fact, he probably takes the title as the most incompetent fighter with the exclusion of Pui Pui.

-Zarbon is probably only second to Dodoria and Pui Pui in terms of uselessness.

[Galan007]

or rendered scared shitless by a power level of 1.3 million.

Was this actually stated in the Japanese dub, or are you just going by that line from the Brazilian dub that people started clinging to for some reason?

We've known about that line since April, where only the japanese version was around and yes it originates in the original japanese.

Can you cite the specific dialogue which states such, please? Because frankly, the notion that Freeza's BP was only 1.3m seem utterly laughable to me, unless we assume the BP's of the notable Z Fighters inextricably decreased by hundreds of millions.

[dbgtFO]

Can you cite the specific dialogue which states such, please? Because frankly, the notion that Freeza's BP was only 1.3m seem utterly laughable to me, unless we assume the BP's of the notable Z Fighters inextricably decreased by hundreds of millions.

Is that so surprising? In my estimation, if I train hard for 4 months then…I should acquire a battle power of 1.30 million…

[LonelyShadow]

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

[supercat]

Hopefully the vast majority of these inconsistencies will be rectified in Super.

Personally, the two most intolerable ones boil down to the 1.3 million line and Piccolo getting decked in the face by some lackey who was stated to be on par with a weakling who had long established himself as a fodder.

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

First and foremost, welcome LonelyShadow!

-SSJ3 Gotenks only seemed marginally stronger than Super Buu, so I doubt he could really tangle with Buff Buu, who I imagine is only inferior to Buuhan, Buutenks, and Buucolo (possibly).

-Either form of Gogeta wins this with minimal effort in my opinion. Although it's a commonly believed notion that Gogeta is leagues below his counterpart Vegetto, I personally feel that the difference isn't that substantial, and that if we exclude the new movies and Super, the former proudly sits in second place as far as raw power is concerned.

-If we're talking strictly Syn Shenron and not Omega, then either Saiyan would win with minimal effort. Omega, however, would turn the tables after a long and dragged out battle.

-SSGSS Gogeta could probably effortlessly defeat his SSJ4 counterpart. I always felt that SSJ4 Gogeta was a bit over hyped.

As for multipliers, I can't recall any specific numbers that have been correlated with either method of fusion. From my understanding, results can vary depending on a number of different variables.

Below are some numbers that I like to use when engaging in discussions pertaining to the comparison of GT and BoG / FnF.

Whis: 15

SSJ4 Gogeta: 12 - 13 (He was unable to obliterate Omega Shenron, despite hitting him with a Big Bang Kamehameha, while Whis was able to render Beerus unconscious with an effortless chop)

Beerus: 10

Omega Shenron: 8 - 8.5 (Although he was clearly above the SSJ4 duo, they were still able to endure quite a few of his attacks)

Golden Frieza: 8

SSGSS Goku / Vegeta: 7 - 7.5

SSG Goku (BoG): 6

Base Goku (FnF): 4.5 - 5

Super 17 (energy absorbed) : 5.5

Final Form Frieza (FnF): 4

SSJ4 Goku: 4.5 (but could very well be on the same level as SSJ Vegetto)

SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc): 2 - 2.5

[Captain Space]

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

-Probably Buu; I mean, he'd definitely beat Gotenks (they should be at least equal and Buu has regeneration while Gotenks has a time limit). Gohan, a bit trickier, but maybe 6/10 to Buu.

-Not certain, but I got the impression that Gogeta was a lot stronger than basically any Buu-era hero short of Vegetto.

-Either Goku or Vegeta. Goku wasn't too outmatched against Syn, so the dragon has gotta still be in Vegetto's realm of power, whereas an SSGSS must be way above it.

-Given that, again, SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta are at best at Vegetto's level, and SSGSS Goku/Vegeta are way beyond that, and the amount fusion increases their power should be the same, so the SSGSS version. (Now, if it were SSJ4 Gogeta versus SSJG/SSGSS Goku or Beerus or somebody, he could have a fighting chance; he's the only GT character that comes off as way, waaaay above Vegetto like Beerus was. At least to me.)

[Lord Beerus]

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

- Ultra Buu with mild difficulty
- Gogeta hands Ultimate Gohan's ass on silver platter
- Either Goku or Vegeta would take this
- SSJGSSJ Gogeta stomps his SSJ4 GT counterpart. I agree with supercat and have seen SSJ4 Gogeta as a bit over hyped.

[h0kuten]

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

Buff Buu solos. I've got Ultimate Gohan 50% stronger than Gotenks and Buff Buff at 25% stronger.
Ultimate Gohan is barely 10x Goku, Gogeta stomps.
Goku wins
FnF Gogeta horribly stomps.

[LonelyShadow]

Spoiler:

Hopefully the vast majority of these inconsistencies will be rectified in Super.

Personally, the two most intolerable ones boil down to the 1.3 million line and Piccolo getting decked in the face by some lackey who was stated to be on par with a weakling who had long established himself as a fodder.

Ultra Buu/Buff Buu vs SSJ3 Gotenks (If you think UB is able to defeat Gotenks them change it for Ultimate Gohan)
Gogeta SSJ/SSJ2 vs Ultimate Gohan
Syn Shenron vs SSGSS Goku or Vegeta
SSGSS Gogeta (FnF) vs SSJ4 Gogeta (End of GT)
Speaking of fusions, has there ever been established an official multiplier for both cases (Potara and Metomorans Dance)?

First and foremost, welcome LonelyShadow!

-SSJ3 Gotenks only seemed marginally stronger than Super Buu, so I doubt he could really tangle with Buff Buu, who I imagine is only inferior to Buuhan, Buutenks, and Buucolo (possibly).

-Either form of Gogeta wins this with minimal effort in my opinion. Although it's a commonly believed notion that Gogeta is leagues below his counterpart Vegetto, I personally feel that the difference isn't that substantial, and that if we exclude the new movies and Super, the former proudly sits in second place as far as raw power is concerned.

-If we're talking strictly Syn Shenron and not Omega, then either Saiyan would win with minimal effort. Omega, however, would turn the tables after a long and dragged out battle.

-SSGSS Gogeta could probably effortlessly defeat his SSJ4 counterpart. I always felt that SSJ4 Gogeta was a bit over hyped.

As for multipliers, I can't recall any specific numbers that have been correlated with either method of fusion. From my understanding, results can vary depending on a number of different variables.

Below are some numbers that I like to use when engaging in discussions pertaining to the comparison of GT and BoG / FnF.

Whis: 15

SSJ4 Gogeta: 12 - 13 (He was unable to obliterate Omega Shenron, despite hitting him with a Big Bang Kamehameha, while Whis was able to render Beerus unconscious with an effortless chop)

Beerus: 10

Omega Shenron: 8 - 8.5 (Although he was clearly above the SSJ4 duo, they were still able to endure quite a few of his attacks)

Golden Freeza: 8

SSGSS Goku / Vegeta: 7 - 7.5

SSG Goku (BoG): 6

Base Goku (FnF): 4.5 - 5

Super 17 (energy absorbed) : 5.5

Final Form Freeza (FnF): 4

SSJ4 Goku: 4.5 (but could very well be on the same level as SSJ Vegetto)

SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc): 2 - 2.5

Hey there, thank you for your warm welcome! I appreciate it, especially these days, when it's really hard to find kindness on the Internet.

Yeah, I always though that Buff Buu was between Buutenks and Buuccolo based on the reaction, both Goku and Vegeta had when he was transforming back.
Although, I never understood how: Kid Buu + Southern Supreme Kai = Buff Buu > Super Buu, at least I have an answer to all those ads with photos that say: "I got ripped in 3 seconds." Absorbing.

I guess that Gogeta SSJ wins with some effort, unless we have an official multiplier for the Fusion Dance we'll never know how strong he was in the movie... It's always about how powerful does Toei want to make their character look like. Gogeta's performance against Super Janemba (which I believe is a little stronger than Super Buu) was very impressive, so was Gohan's against Buu-Buu, either way, 30 minutes if more than enough time to finish Gohan off.

The God's power up is way to high. PentaKill secured. If it was Omega against one of them he wins, if the battle is against both Saiyans, he puts up a good fight, but the result is quite obvious, a case similar to what could happen to Beerus or could have happened to Golden Frieza.

Like I said before, the new power up is too OP, I actually just watched the episode where Gogeta SSJ4 appears with a friend of mine who really likes GT, I have to say, his performance against Omega wasn't as impressive as I remember, even he was all like: "Why didn't he just finish him off?"
SSJ2 Gohan did a way better job against Perfect Cell and he was like 1.6 - 1.8 stronger than him. If Gogeta couldn't finish Omega with a Big Bag Kamehameha straight up to the face (where's your Stardust Breaker now?!) then I can be sure that he is indeed overrated. I'm pretty sure, both Whis and his counterpart SSGSS can defeat him.

Also, when did Vegeta learned the Fusion Dance? Did he practice in private all this time after watching Goten and Trunks fuse at some point?

Anyways, thank you for giving your opinion about the subject, have a nice day.

[Galan007]

Can you cite the specific dialogue which states such, please? Because frankly, the notion that Freeza's BP was only 1.3m seem utterly laughable to me, unless we assume the BP's of the notable Z Fighters inextricably decreased by hundreds of millions.

Is that so surprising? In my estimation, if I train hard for 4 months then…I should acquire a battle power of 1.30 million…

And that is an irrefutible translation from the Japanese dub, correct? Does that mean this line from the RoF manga is non-canon?:

Spoiler:

Even if so, clearly his "estimation" was wrong.

[Captain Space]

Also, when did Vegeta learned the Fusion Dance? Did he practice in private all this time after watching Goten and Trunks fuse at some point?

GT likes to play it loose with the movies' canonicity, occasionally showing some movie characters escaping from Hell in the Super 17 arc or whatever, so I guess they just figured "it happened in Fusion Reborn, never mind when or how that movie happened, but they've already learned it in another thing we've produced so whatever".

Even if so, clearly his "estimation" was wrong.

Yes it is. Either a mistake on Freeza's part or the writers'.