Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
ekrolo2 wrote:I'm trying to reserve judgment until I actually see the movie.... but at the same time given what I've seen here I think I'll probably just skip it. Seems like a pretty big waste of time that's just there for action sake, if we got one of these every year I wouldn't mind but waiting two years for a movie that seemingly does jack and shit but action set pieces is really a big waste of everyone's time imo. Then again the whole Freeza thing was just done based on Toriyama's whim so maybe I was an idiot for staying as optimistic as I was for it.
I may skip out as well... Seeing as how what we know of the ending, it just sounds like another toei movie. But we'll see what happens if we get a sequel.
We've officially gone from "Not Enough Action" to "Too Much Action".
Honestly at this point, if that's enough to get you to skip out on a movie, I dunno what to tell ya. To me, it sounds like a fun Dragon Ball movie that actually managed to exist without giving anyone the proverbial short end of the stick.
We were never promised more than Freeza's return and "the ultimate battle". Expecting much more was just us setting expectations. I get being disappointed, but I really hope you'll reconsider seeing it.
Last edited by ShadowWolf87 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
Tennessaiyan wrote:It just sounds like another toei movie.
Vegeta never got to defeat a main villain in a Toie movie.
Goku never lost in a Toie movie.
Toie movies never tried to be something bigger then a side story.
Goku lost in Fusion Reborn to Super Janemba, pretty thoroughly too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
GTx10 wrote:So Blue haired Goku and Vegeta are real things? Like 100% real?
Yes, apparently it's the mastered version of Super Saiyan God or something, nobody on 2ch has come up with a reasonable explanation yet.
If this blue SSJ is a matter of adding the super saiyan transformation to his God power, it.makes you wonder why he didn't just go to SSJ2 or SSJ3 right off the bat.
Last edited by AvatarReiko on Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tennessaiyan wrote:It just sounds like another toei movie.
Vegeta never got to defeat a main villain in a Toie movie.
Goku never lost in a Toie movie.
Toie movies never tried to be something bigger then a side story.
Goku lost in Fusion Reborn to Super Janemba, pretty thoroughly too.
Goku also lost to MetaCooler. Was he and Vegeta both overcharging him that blew his circuits. And Vegeta was the one to crush that final chip so there's that.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
As much as I'm complaining, I'm sure the movie will at least be on par with Battle of Gods. I'll probably enjoy it so long as my brain is turned off and not focusing on the nuances that are driving me nuts. It sounds like a fun movie if I watch it as a stand alone movie rather than trying to rationalize it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Deathbringer wrote:Goku going to the moon and back in the early manga but somehow struggling to think of how he would be able to climb all the way to Kami's lookout
I don't think that's as problematic/inconsistent as him having clearly gone into space to do this, and yet seems surprised by how cold snow is. There's also Trunks referring to the wrong pair of Androids, and Cell's nucleus.
Also I feel like "plot hole" and "inconsistency" are being tossed around with a very nebulous and unclear connotation. Does something have to be logically contradicting a statement, which may or may not be interpreted as an implication of X rather than an explicit proclamation of Y, or vice versa? Does something have to be logically contradicting a demonstrated feat, which by itself can be interpreted in a number of ways? There's no clear cut science to this. Just because one piece of material contradicts an implication you extrapolate from a line of dialog in another piece of material, does not mean that the former piece is contradicting the latter piece.
If the degree of pedantry that some have toward this film to were to be applied the same way toward the manga, that wouldn't hold up either. Sure, the film has questionable things, but if you apply a creative spark they can be reconciled. Likewise, the manga has questionable things that can be reconciled with a creative spark.
I hope the people here still watches the movie and buys the dvd to support the franchise, who knows if they profit enough here they may make another movie hopefully about the other universe. Cmon guys be the dragon ball fans we are.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
ShadowWolf87 wrote: We've officially gone from "Not Enough Action" to "Too Much Action".
Honestly at this point, if that's enough to get you to skip out on a movie, I dunno what to tell ya. To me, it sounds like a fun Dragon Ball movie that actually managed to exist without giving anyone the proverbial short end of the stick.
We were never promised more than Freeza's return and "the ultimate battle". Expecting much more was just us setting expectations. I get being disappointed, but I really hope you'll reconsider seeing it.
I never said more or less action was a bad thing as I really liked BoG regardless of the action as it was funny & interesting in plenty of other ways. Introduced new concepts, did a good amount of world building, brought in some cool new character and then its sequel is..... nothing. It's just a prolonged fight scene with a guy Toriyama brought back only on a whim cause he liked a song about him.... It's a shame too cause I was okay with God, losing Super Saiyan, Golden Freeza hell I even accepted how Freeza came back and his power upgrade but the whole package just seems really pointless, if your whole movie is nothing but a dumb fight scene I can just You Tube it no problem and save my cash for the next movie that'll hopefully do something with what BoG setup.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Deathbringer wrote:Goku going to the moon and back in the early manga but somehow struggling to think of how he would be able to climb all the way to Kami's lookout
If the degree of pedantry that some have toward this film to were to be applied the same way toward the manga, that wouldn't hold up either. Sure, the film has questionable things, but if you apply a creative spark they can be reconciled. Likewise, the manga has questionable things that can be reconciled with a creative spark.
No franchise could stand up under the insane amount of nitpicking about fanmade logic that has been exhibited in this thread.
GokuRules987 wrote:This is how a real Saiyan beyond god should look like
Spoiler:
Ew no...not at all. Sign me up for Bloku instead of...that. I'd take Super Saiyan God's red look over that too. I'd probably take anything over that.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Number one rule of a design is that it has to look pretty. Lazy or not, I find Blue SSJ's design appealing, as I do with SSJG. I don't find Golden Freeza's design very appealing at all, though.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Uh....Vegeta didn't beat a main villain in this movie either.
He had to cut off his air stream by blowing up the planet in order to not get killed by him.
Sure he didn't kill him but he definitely defeated him in combat which is something Goku couldn't do.
Vegeta was fighting a tired Frieza man. Also Frieza kinda screwed Goku since Sorbet did something while they were fighting, pretty sure that ring has something to do with it. Also Vegeta couldnt stop an attack that Goku did.
SansrivaaL wrote:I hope the people here still watches the movie and buys the dvd to support the franchise, who knows if they profit enough here they may make another movie hopefully about the other universe. Cmon guys be the dragon ball fans we are.
I'll be seeing it in theaters if it's where I live and getting it day 1 when it's out on Blu-Ray.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
I will give Freeza props for getting his head out of his ass and just blowing up the planet when he knew he was gonna lose, didn't save him in the end but at least he was smarter about it this time than when he did it on Namek.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
