Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Birusu16]

Well Beerus hinted that he wants to wish the whole universe to be destroyed. I guess he is not a full universe buster like the fanboys wank out to be if that is true.

He doesn't say "want", he says "could" and he was obviously joking. It was also a throwaway line to give an idea of the power of the super dragon balls. If Beerus and Champa can wipe out two universes just by fighting then either one can certainly wipe out one should they want to. It has nothing to do with wank.

[pacz360]

Well Beerus hinted that he wants to wish the whole universe to be destroyed. I guess he is not a full universe buster like the fanboys wank out to be if that is true.

That's mostly talking of the capability of super dragon balls.

[Hellspawn28]

Beerus and Champa fighting each other that can destroy each other universes make no sense. If they are fighting in a area that was set in the middle of U6 and U7 then maybe sure. But they are still in Universe 7, so how could they?

[Saiyan007]

Beerus and Champa fighting each other that can destroy each other universes make no sense. If they are fighting in a area that was set in the middle of U6 and U7 then maybe sure. But they are still in Universe 7, so how could they?

They can ignore space time logic.

Kinda like what Goku and Beerus shockwaves can reach into other dimensions

Heck they were going to destroy the other dimensions if Beerus didn't intervene

Also it's quite funny you think Beerus can't destroy a universe at this point no fan wanking is involved

[ArchedThunder]

Beerus and Champa fighting each other that can destroy each other universes make no sense. If they are fighting in a area that was set in the middle of U6 and U7 then maybe sure. But they are still in Universe 7, so how could they?

I mean their strength was never brought up, all that was said is that "Gods of Destruction should never fight" it could be the fact that they are Gods of Destruction could be what would cause the universes to be destroyed, not their actual power.

[ZombieVito]

So how strong do you guys think Gohan and Piccolo will get after training for 8 months?

[RandomGuy96]

Hey wait, I just realized something. This applies even just considering faff and ignoring Super:

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected."

That epilogue with Uub still happened. And now base Goku is ridiculously strong all the time. Yet in the epilogue he was clearly at a disadvantage vs Uub, who he says is as strong as Pure Buu. So that gives us a concrete position on how strong base Goku now is: slightly weaker than his SS3 Buu arc self. That goes along well with stuff like him being a tree to Beerus's tower, an exhausted Freeza who can't hurt SSGSS Goku scoffing at the idea that base Vegeta can do anything to him, and Beerus almost killing base Goku with a sneeze.

By extension this would mean non-Golden Freeza isn't all that strong. He was getting his ass kicked by base Goku in his true form, and his three suppression forms are weaker than that. I stand by what I said about his 1st form being weaker than Cell.

[ZombieVito]

We know jack shit about Uub's power though. He could be stronger, equal or weaker than Pure Buu.

[RandomGuy96]

We know jack shit about Uub's power though. He could be stronger, equal or weaker than Pure Buu.

Goku outright said they were the same strength...

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “…You’re amazin’. You hung in there really well all on your own…This time, be reborn as a good guy…I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waitin'…"

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected."

[MajinVegetaPD]

EOZ is dead. Not sure why you guys are still trying to cling on to it for dear life. It doesn't fit anymore.

There is a 0% chance Goku would get excited about fighting a Pure Buu level opponent after all the events that are soon to transpire. He has Vegeta/Beerus/Whis etc. to test his power against.

And that's not even the kicker. With Goku and Vegeta's new found relationship with each other, it would make absolutely 0 sense for them to completely ignore each other for years.

[ArchedThunder]

There is a 0% chance Goku would get excited about fighting a Pure Buu level opponent after all the events that are soon to transpire. He has Vegeta/Beerus/Whis etc. to test his power against.

He's a kid with no training, how could Goku NOT get excited at the fact that he's Buu level? With training Uub would become incredible.

[ZombieVito]

There is a 0% chance Goku would get excited about fighting a Pure Buu level opponent after all the events that are soon to transpire. He has Vegeta/Beerus/Whis etc. to test his power against.

He's a kid with no training, how could Goku NOT get excited at the fact that he's Buu level? With training Uub would become incredible.

If Freeza managed to get himself to god level, just imagine how far would Uub go. Especially with Goku's training.

[Bullza]

It doesn't have to be double to be huge.

And other characters have had a wider gap and had a closer fight. The point is there shouldn't be that big of a difference between the two to compare them as a tree and a temple especially when the fight between them wasn't that drastic whether he was holding back a little or not.

By that logic, Goku isn't a Super Saiyan because Vegeta said that it should be impossible for Goku to become a Super Saiyan.

That's not the same at all, Vegeta hadn't even seen a Super Saiyan nor knew how powerful one was supposed to be. Goku would know his own power and how it stood up compared to his SSJG power and so he would know if he were capable to reach that level on his own or not.

Vegeta said that Beerus doesn't hold back when he is asleep, and he was still sleepy when he sneezed.

Yeah but he wasn't asleep and they didn't say anything about him not holding back at that time.

In BoG, Beerus says that the decrease after SSG disappeared was insignificant. After SSG disappeared, Goku was in base, not in SS.

No he was in Super Saiyan. In both the movie and Super when Beerus comments about his power not dropping Goku was a Super Saiyan.

He didn't have godly ki as a Super Saiyan against Beerus even though he was as strong as a Super Saiyan God, so what's your point?

My point is why he would need to train to learn to be able to become a Super Saiyan God on his own if he was already apparently as strong as one.

So, what boost do you think that the Grades gave?

Not a clue but Semi Perfect Cell must have been stronger than SSJ Vegeta or there would have been no need to transform. Trunk was said to be slightly weaker and as a USSJ it wouldn't his power enough for Perfect Cell to say he was stronger than himself. Before that ASSJ Vegeta couldn't even hurt Cell physically. It couldn't have been that small a boost.

Can you stop saying that a x1.25-1.5 boost is small & pitiful? You are wrong, official numbers show that a x1.03 boost is big enough to make a huge difference.

I'm not talking about that because there's no consistency with that. You have these Super Saiyan forms that boost their power by 50 fold, 2 fold, 4 fold, 10+ fold. Kaioken boosts their power from 2 up to 20 fold. Oozaru boosts their power 10 fold. Super Saiyan God was possibly dozens of times stronger and then there's SSJB which boosts their power no more than 20%, that is pitiful.

Are you serious now?

Yeah, in the whole fight that lasted several episodes base Goku was involved for a few seconds in place of where SSJG appeared in the movie.

We don't know if he powered up. He couldn't stop the attack as a Super Saiyan either, so it is possible that he did better as a SSG because he was angry, like he did better in his fight with Beerus as a SS because he was angry.

Of course he powered up. He couldn't stop the attack as Super Saiyan and then he couldn't stop it in base form and then it overwhelmed him and he blacked out for a moment. Then he's seen getting some kind of power and he transforms back into a Super Saiyan God in order to stop the attack straight away.

It was a hit at full power, and you can't prove that his strikes at 70% had more power.

Turning around and catching someone with your foot isn't a hit. Whether it was at 70% or not a proper martial arts kick is going to have a lot more power behind it than flicking your leg out when turning over. Goku and Beerus where exchanging hits that where threatening to destroy the universe, there's not going to be less power behind those strikes then when Beerus moved his tail a little and hit Goku in the face.

[buutenks]

Hey wait, I just realized something. This applies even just considering faff and ignoring Super:

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected."

That epilogue with Uub still happened. And now base Goku is ridiculously strong all the time. Yet in the epilogue he was clearly at a disadvantage vs Uub, who he says is as strong as Pure Buu. So that gives us a concrete position on how strong base Goku now is: slightly weaker than his SS3 Buu arc self. That goes along well with stuff like him being a tree to Beerus's tower, an exhausted Freeza who can't hurt SSGSS Goku scoffing at the idea that base Vegeta can do anything to him, and Beerus almost killing base Goku with a sneeze.

By extension this would mean non-Golden Freeza isn't all that strong. He was getting his ass kicked by base Goku in his true form, and his three suppression forms are weaker than that. I stand by what I said about his 1st form being weaker than Cell.

Even if u ignore super,fact is BOG movie goku still retained most of the god powerup.

Only way to write it off would be if he somehow lost the power after his fight with beerus ended.

Still tho i dont see why super or any new content needs to tie in to EOZ?what is so special about EOZ?Its boring and irrelavant IMO.

EOZ was toriyama showing that goku will still have adventures,nothing to be taken to seriously.

[Helios518]

Beerus and Champa fighting each other that can destroy each other universes make no sense. If they are fighting in a area that was set in the middle of U6 and U7 then maybe sure. But they are still in Universe 7, so how could they?

I mean their strength was never brought up, all that was said is that "Gods of Destruction should never fight" it could be the fact that they are Gods of Destruction could be what would cause the universes to be destroyed, not their actual power.

Or you know the sheer power of the average God of Destruction is capable of destroying the universe and it's not just because they're a GoD. The line still fits perfectly with this.

[Noah]

So... People here said that Base Gohan (RoF Arc) is superior to Piccolo, but in NEP, sparring with him, Gohan seems to be in trouble.

Unless by common sense Gohan BP in DBS is a mess or they're just taking into account Gohan (RoF movie) BP

[dbgtFO]

So... People here said that Base Gohan (RoF Arc) is superior to Piccolo, but in NEP, sparring with him, Gohan seems to be in trouble.

Unless by common sense Gohan BP in DBS is a mess or they're just taking into account Gohan (RoF movie) BP

Maybe Piccolo's power has just increased at a greater rate than Base Gohan's, thus catching up to him?

[LightBing]

I can see Piccolo getting a huge boost. It would parallel his gain in the android arc, sparring against someone much stronger than him. Although it still wouldn't be enough to touch the Gods.

[ZombieVito]

So... People here said that Base Gohan (RoF Arc) is superior to Piccolo, but in NEP, sparring with him, Gohan seems to be in trouble.

Unless by common sense Gohan BP in DBS is a mess or they're just taking into account Gohan (RoF movie) BP

He is obviously at a different level of power now that he has been training with Ultimate Gohan for months.

I'm excited to see how they match to the gods now. I'll be grateful with 10% of Beerus to be honest.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And other characters have had a wider gap and had a closer fight. The point is there shouldn't be that big of a difference between the two to compare them as a tree and a temple especially when the fight between them wasn't that drastic whether he was holding back a little or not.

The only fight I can think of is SS Goku vs FP Freeza, and they were already injured from before, which may have affected their fight.

That's not the same at all, Vegeta hadn't even seen a Super Saiyan nor knew how powerful one was supposed to be. Goku would know his own power and how it stood up compared to his SSJG power and so he would know if he were capable to reach that level on his own or not.

You are not making any sense. Goku didn't think he could reach that power on his own, Vegeta proved him wrong by achieving even greater power than that on his own.

Yeah but he wasn't asleep and they didn't say anything about him not holding back at that time.

He was still sleepy, so it is possible that he wasn't holding back. There is also the fact that Goku was taken off-guard when Beerus fired that blast. He was just talking with Whis, he wasn't fighting.

No he was in Super Saiyan. In both the movie and Super when Beerus comments about his power not dropping Goku was a Super Saiyan.

Beerus said that the decrease in his power was insignificant after God disappeared. After God disappeared, Goku was in base form. Beerus made no comment about SS playing any factor in this.

My point is why he would need to train to learn to be able to become a Super Saiyan God on his own if he was already apparently as strong as one.

Because Super Saiyan Blue is a form more powerful than Super Saiyan God. It also gives him back the godly ki as an extra.

Not a clue but Semi Perfect Cell must have been stronger than SSJ Vegeta or there would have been no need to transform. Trunk was said to be slightly weaker and as a USSJ it wouldn't his power enough for Perfect Cell to say he was stronger than himself. Before that ASSJ Vegeta couldn't even hurt Cell physically. It couldn't have been that small a boost.

So, you believe that the Grade forms are stronger than Super Saiyan 2?

I'm not talking about that because there's no consistency with that. You have these Super Saiyan forms that boost their power by 50 fold, 2 fold, 4 fold, 10+ fold. Kaioken boosts their power from 2 up to 20 fold. Oozaru boosts their power 10 fold. Super Saiyan God was possibly dozens of times stronger and then there's SSJB which boosts their power no more than 20%, that is pitiful.

It may look pitiful compared to other forms, but it's still a big boost in power.

Yeah, in the whole fight that lasted several episodes base Goku was involved for a few seconds in place of where SSJG appeared in the movie.

Still, in those few seconds he could survive & block Beerus' hits, hurt Beerus with his punch, hold the Beerus' ki ball without getting killed by it, and in Super, destroy the huge ki ball that as a SS couldn't even push back with a single punch. He didn't even notice that SSG disappeared.

Of course he powered up. He couldn't stop the attack as Super Saiyan and then he couldn't stop it in base form and then it overwhelmed him and he blacked out for a moment. Then he's seen getting some kind of power and he transforms back into a Super Saiyan God in order to stop the attack straight away.

It doesn't appear to be thanks to the battle power of SSG, since he had that power as a Super Saiyan and he still failed to do it. It appears that he managed to stop it because he gave his all, not because he obtained greater battle power.

Turning around and catching someone with your foot isn't a hit. Whether it was at 70% or not a proper martial arts kick is going to have a lot more power behind it than flicking your leg out when turning over. Goku and Beerus where exchanging hits that where threatening to destroy the universe, there's not going to be less power behind those strikes then when Beerus moved his tail a little and hit Goku in the face.

We've seen that fingers & tongues can do considerable damage, so when at full power, even this would count as a hit. Again, you can't prove that this hit was weaker than the hits that 70% Beerus was landing on Goku. And BTW, it was a tail attack on Goku, an actual hit. And they even barely survived a ki blast later.

Hey wait, I just realized something. This applies even just considering faff and ignoring Super:

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected."

That epilogue with Uub still happened. And now base Goku is ridiculously strong all the time. Yet in the epilogue he was clearly at a disadvantage vs Uub, who he says is as strong as Pure Buu. So that gives us a concrete position on how strong base Goku now is: slightly weaker than his SS3 Buu arc self. That goes along well with stuff like him being a tree to Beerus's tower, an exhausted Freeza who can't hurt SSGSS Goku scoffing at the idea that base Vegeta can do anything to him, and Beerus almost killing base Goku with a sneeze.

By extension this would mean non-Golden Freeza isn't all that strong. He was getting his ass kicked by base Goku in his true form, and his three suppression forms are weaker than that. I stand by what I said about his 1st form being weaker than Cell.

We have no idea how much power base Goku was using against Oob, and we have no idea how strong Oob was. Goku expected him to be a fighter probably strong enough to beat him, but he also expected him to be a trained fighter. It is possible that Oob was qualified as the amazing guy that Goku expected in the sense that he has the potential to reach or even surpass Goku's level. Even ignoring BoG/FnF/Super, if Oob was as strong as Pure Boo, Goku shouldn't worry about losing since he was confident he could beat Pure Boo 10 years ago, and he failed to do so only because he miscalculated.

Besides, if we take BoG/FnF/Super into account, base Goku being so weak makes no sense, unless if you assume that he got weaker after BoG for some reason.