The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Roshi cannot be 139 in the 22nd TB; His power must be around 60

Roshi ( 22nd TB ) 60
Roshi ( BoZ ) 60

Daizenshuu 7 disagrees.

[ahill1]

But the manga does not disagree.

[Doctor.]

The only logical explanation is that Roshi's power increased from the 22nd TB to the beginning of Z, if you wish to discard the Daizenshuu battle powers.

[Captain Space]

Daizenshuu 7 gives Roshi a 139 in the 22nd TB.

Guess that's another reason I'll tend to take it as unreliable at best, then. Then again, maybe he just did 'maintenance' training to stay where he was. (Okay, more likely the second of those, I don't exactly see Roshi doing absolutely nothing and dwindling away to zero power over time.) The manga clearly says that Gohan not training is a reason for his power loss (so does Resurrection F), and even the Daiz states it as a factor alongside his emotional state.

Piccolo Daimao barely dropped in power after going without any form of exercise for hundreds of years, and aging into a geezer.

His power gain when he became young again was pretty significant, wasn't it? (And I got the impression things worked kind of differently for him while trapped in that container, but that's just me.)

[RandomGuy96]

Daizenshuu 7 gives Roshi a 139 in the 22nd TB.

Guess that's another reason I'll tend to take it as unreliable at best, then. Then again, maybe he just did 'maintenance' training to stay where he was. (Okay, more likely the second of those, I don't exactly see Roshi doing absolutely nothing and dwindling away to zero power over time.) The manga clearly says that Gohan not training is a reason for his power loss (so does Resurrection F), and even the Daiz states it as a factor alongside his emotional state.

Piccolo Daimao barely dropped in power after going without any form of exercise for hundreds of years, and aging into a geezer.

His power gain when he became young again was pretty significant, wasn't it? (And I got the impression things worked kind of differently for him while trapped in that container, but that's just me.)

It didn't seem significant at all. Even ignoring the official power levels, his old and young selves both have to be far, far above 139 (Roshi's level at the 22nd Budokai, and BOZ), while still being below 260 (Tenshinhan's level at the BOZ). So, there's really no room for a significant difference between the two. Also, why would things work differently for him in that container? He was clearly still aging, since he's the same age as Kami despite being locked in that thing for hundreds of years.

[ahill1]

The only logical explanation is that Roshi's power increased from the 22nd TB to the beginning of Z, if you wish to discard the Daizenshuu battle powers.

I do not agree with the number 139 given in the manga;It is a very high number and completely wrong.

[Kamiccolo9]

The only logical explanation is that Roshi's power increased from the 22nd TB to the beginning of Z, if you wish to discard the Daizenshuu battle powers.

I do not agree with the number 139 given in the manga;It is a very high number and completely wrong.

The number given in the manga is "completely wrong?"

[RandomGuy96]

I think he's talking about it contradicting Daimao's statement that he wasn't even using half his power to demolish 22nd Budokai Goku. Since Daimao has to be 260 or less, and 22nd Budokai Goku has to be stronger than Roshi's 139. That's easily explainable, though; he was speaking in absolute terms, rather than talking about battle power. Like, he seemed literally thousands of times stronger than Ten and Goku going by his destructive feats (he nuked a city; their strongest attacks could just make an arena-sized hole), even though their battle powers weren't that far apart.

[Doctor.]

Daimao has to be less than 250, that was Tenshinhan's battle power in the beginning of the Saiyan arc, not 260 (I brought this up because multiple guidebooks put him at 260).

[ahill1]

I do not know why people continue to use the guides. Daizenshuu 7 has many brutal mistakes, like having Piccolo Daimao stronger than Tenshinhan (23rd budokai); or have Goku (22nd budokai) stronger than Yamcha (23rd budokai) - which is laughable.

[Doctor.]

I do not know why people continue to use the guides. Daizenshuu 7 has many brutal mistakes, like having Piccolo Daimao stronger than Tenshinhan (23rd budokai); or have Goku (22nd budokai) stronger than Yamcha (23rd budokai) - which is laughable.

Because plenty of its content is informative and doesn't contradict anything. Dismissing it completely because some stuff contradicts the manga is like dismissing the manga entirely because it has a lot of contradictions as well.

[ahill1]

Daizenshuu 7 is good as a guide not as a source of power levels.

[TheGmGoken]

Injustice Gods Among Us Alfred vs SSGSS Goku

[pacz360]

Injustice Gods Among Us Alfred vs SSGSS Goku

Goku takes this Alfred beaten down a weakened superman so goku give him his very own butlering

[Captain Space]

Injustice Gods Among Us Alfred vs SSGSS Goku

Goku takes this Alfred beaten down a weakened superman so goku give him his very own butlering

Unless Alfred's British accent catches Goku off-guard.

[LonelyShadow]

- Nail, Krillin, Vegeta and Gohan (post-senzu bean) vs Captain Ginyu (no body swap).

- Kamiccolo-sama (Saiyan saga) vs Vegeta.

- SSGSS Vegito (using the Warlock Punch) vs FPSSJ Goku's punch ( with everyone's power absorbed/ the power of friendship).

[Lord Beerus]

- Nail, Krillin, Vegeta and Gohan (post-senzu bean) vs Captain Ginyu (no body swap).

- Kamiccolo-sama (Saiyan saga) vs Vegeta.

- SSGSS Vegito (using the Warlock Punch) vs FPSSJ Goku's punch ( with everyone's power absorbed/ the power of friendship).

- Captain Ginyu trounces them all
- Vegeta gets wrecked.
- Goku, hands down. The power of your nakama can overcome anything.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I tried my best using my shameful Internet in order to find information about why there's such a big difference between pre-M2 Goku and post-M2 Goku, what happened there?

Start at 3.

[ZombieVito]

- Nail, Krillin, Vegeta and Gohan (post-senzu bean) vs Captain Ginyu (no body swap).

- Kamiccolo-sama (Saiyan saga) vs Vegeta.

- SSGSS Vegito (using the Warlock Punch) vs FPSSJ Goku's punch ( with everyone's power absorbed/ the power of friendship).

Ginyu kills them all.
Piccolo here would only be able to get to 7,000. He gets killed in seconds.
Vegetto.

[LonelyShadow]

I tried my best using my shameful Internet in order to find information about why there's such a big difference between pre-M2 Goku and post-M2 Goku, what happened there?

Start at 3.

I appreciate that you gave me a link in order to help me find an answer, I actually read the whole post twice, but it isn't what I was looking for, is my fault for not being specific about the question, I was wondering if there's a specific line in the series or a statement from the creators of GT that explains why, apparently, Goku became 100 times stronger than before by just traveling through different planets and fighting powerful foes in less than a year.

I'm not trying to say that your post is bad, is very well redacted, but sadly it didn't manage to answer my question or I just couldn't understand it. We have to be honest with ourselves, sometimes we put characters stronger than they actually are just because of our judgment, in my case I think that Kid Buu ≥ SSJ3 Goku, in mostly of the Power Levels list I read it isn't the case. Many people think differently when it comes to this kind of subject, for example, we can argue if:

SSJ Vegetto = SSJ4 GT Goku or SSJ3 Vegetto = SSJ4 GT Goku.

But it's all about opinions, those little differences are very important when it comes to the conclusion. In your opinion, when Goku referred to Buu's ki it was Buuhan, my opinion differs, and there's a huge difference between how big Kid Buu and Buuhan Ki's are.

I was doing fine until the part between Luud and Rild. Goku seemes to have a power level bigger than his SSJ3 manga counterpart only in his base form, after that, he became immediately stronger by many folds with no explanation whatsoever, he just did that and that's it. Goku didn't suffered any terrible wounds in order to get a zenkai boost, which appareantly, the creators forgot.

The post explains very well the events that happened during the first part of GT, sadly, it wasn't able to explain what happens between point A ---> B.
In this case, pre-M2 Goku being point A and post-M2 Goku being point B.

Again, it was my fault for not being specific, but I want to know, did any of the creators, characters in the series, GT Perfect Files or any official media explains how does Base Goku post-M2 > SSJ Goku pre-M2?

About the post "Why GT doesn't follow the Z anime."

Spoiler:

I don't really think that there was a massive implosion somewhere in the Universe that managed to make the Super Saiyan multipliers way weaker than before, if GT is based on DBZ it should follow the same rules, if GT has or not to follow the events that happened during filler that's up to debate, but the official multipliers have been stablished, there's nothing that contradicts the posssible fact that they're still using them during GT other than just Rild's statement.

The post constantly says stuff like: "remeber: this is Toei", I honestly don't know if the person who wrote that was making a serious "GT logic lol" joke or if this is an attempt of making the characters in GT look way stronger that they are suppose to be by taking the parts of the Z anime that benefits them the most (e.g: A fan of Superman taking different features from the many versions of the superhero itself in order to make him superior without any sort of explanation).

In my opinion: 5 years of training > Space Battles.
Unless you receive massive damage and have "Zaiyan" hacks.