The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Doctor.]

Goku impressed Beerus before SSJG

He impressed him so much that Beerus even forgot his name.

[RandomGuy96]

He acknowledged it was futile before he did so.

He does the same when Gotenks tries to fight Beers, too.

Exactly. He didn't think they'd win to begin with, but he was surprised by how easily they were taken down.

And why didn't he think they'd win to begin with? He can't sense Beers, so what convinced him they were no match for Beers before the battle even begins? Oh, right. It was Goku's effortless defeat.

But why would be he surprised to begin with, if Goku was the strongest, and he got taken down with a flick and a chop?

It doesn't matter. Based on the fact that Goku had such a worthless effort against Beers, Vegeta already knew everyone else on earth was finished. So much for Gohan and Gotenks being far outta his league when it's clear they have no chance as well.

If Goku was the strongest one there, he'd have absolutely no reason to say that Beerus was stronger than he thought he'd be, since nothing he did would be unexpected for someone who could easily take down Goku.

Guys are always acknowledged as being stronger than expected throughout the series. You're taking this one thing to mean something when it's only referring to Beers utter domination of the group as a whole. He knew none of them could even touch Beers, but seeing that display up close made it easier to comprehend. Vegeta saw Super Saiyan 3 Goku from otherworld while fighting Fat Boo, but was only able to fully understand the depths of his power when he was there watching him fight Kid Boo.

Logically, at least one person there must have been stronger than Goku... and it obviously wasn't Vegeta, since he's acknowledged as weaker than Goku prior to getting angry.

No one on earth was stronger than Goku. Vegeta was already convinced they'd all be history if Beers even got slightly pissed off. That was his whole point of trying to avoid angering him. Goku's defeat alone was the reason. Vegeta's reaction to Goku being defeated with ease was bigger than any other reaction he showed during the movie.

Except he explicitly said he never thought Beerus could be so powerful, after seeing Gotenks lose.

Which was in response to Beers utter domination to them as a group and not a single person. Vegeta never specified Gotenks' defeat as anything special, especially when he knew he was going to get rolled before he even engages Beers.

The power of Goku and Vegeta was what Beers acknowledged in the end. Gohan and Gotenks? Not remotely relevant.

1. I know.

2. I'm not seeing how is relevant to your attempt to prove Goku's stronger than them.

3. I'm getting really, really sick if you just saying "it doesn't matter" when you can't think of a rebuttal. Goku gets taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked. Gotenks and Gohan get taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked and comments that Beerus is stronger than he thought. Simple.

4. Guys are acknowledged as stronger than expected... when they're stronger than expected. He knew Beerus took down Goku with two hits, yet was still surprised that Beerus could easily take down Gotenks. There's nothing in there about him just comprehending the difference better, since he already knew what the difference was. There's absolutely no reason for him to be shocked if Goku was stronger than Gohan and Gotenks. If Beerus can take down Goku in two hits, then no shit he can take down anyone weaker than that in two hits.

5. Except Gotenks and Gohan. They were stronger than Goku, or at least Gotenks was, as clearly implied by Vegeta's statement (and promotional material). At the absolute most, his reaction to Goku being defeated just means that no one else would be capable of nearly killing Goku with two hits. His "I never imagined Beerus would be this strong" after Gotenks loses is clear and obvious in its meaning.

6. Why would the defeat of the group shock him if none of them were stronger than Goku? They all engaged him at one at a time rather than trying to team up on him (except when Piccolo and 18 rushed him), and again, no shit a guy can knock out people weaker than Goku in two hits. So what shocked him? What feat did Beerus perform that put him above merely "two-shots Goku" level? Since Vegeta is weaker than Goku, it can't be easily defeating Vegeta in more than two hits. Since Piccolo, 18, and Tenshinhan are all total fodder (Dabra slaughtered a roughly equal team in seconds back in the Buu arc), it can't be Beerus easily taking them out. Since Mr. Buu is also weaker than Goku, it can't be taking him out in more than two hits. There's nothing else he could be referring to besides Gohan and Gotenks losing (specifically Gotenks, since he only says it after Gotenks is easily beaten, and Goten and Trunks were confident in Gotenks winning after everyone else lost).

7. Their potential was acknowledged at the end.

[h0kuten]

He acknowledged it was futile before he did so.

He does the same when Gotenks tries to fight Beers, too.

Exactly. He didn't think they'd win to begin with, but he was surprised by how easily they were taken down.

And why didn't he think they'd win to begin with? He can't sense Beers, so what convinced him they were no match for Beers before the battle even begins? Oh, right. It was Goku's effortless defeat.

But why would be he surprised to begin with, if Goku was the strongest, and he got taken down with a flick and a chop?

It doesn't matter. Based on the fact that Goku had such a worthless effort against Beers, Vegeta already knew everyone else on earth was finished. So much for Gohan and Gotenks being far outta his league when it's clear they have no chance as well.

If Goku was the strongest one there, he'd have absolutely no reason to say that Beerus was stronger than he thought he'd be, since nothing he did would be unexpected for someone who could easily take down Goku.

Guys are always acknowledged as being stronger than expected throughout the series. You're taking this one thing to mean something when it's only referring to Beers utter domination of the group as a whole. He knew none of them could even touch Beers, but seeing that display up close made it easier to comprehend. Vegeta saw Super Saiyan 3 Goku from otherworld while fighting Fat Boo, but was only able to fully understand the depths of his power when he was there watching him fight Kid Boo.

Logically, at least one person there must have been stronger than Goku... and it obviously wasn't Vegeta, since he's acknowledged as weaker than Goku prior to getting angry.

No one on earth was stronger than Goku. Vegeta was already convinced they'd all be history if Beers even got slightly pissed off. That was his whole point of trying to avoid angering him. Goku's defeat alone was the reason. Vegeta's reaction to Goku being defeated with ease was bigger than any other reaction he showed during the movie.

Except he explicitly said he never thought Beerus could be so powerful, after seeing Gotenks lose.

Which was in response to Beers utter domination to them as a group and not a single person. Vegeta never specified Gotenks' defeat as anything special, especially when he knew he was going to get rolled before he even engages Beers.

The power of Goku and Vegeta was what Beers acknowledged in the end. Gohan and Gotenks? Not remotely relevant.

1. I know.

2. I'm not seeing how is relevant to your attempt to prove Goku's stronger than them.

3. I'm getting really, really sick if you just saying "it doesn't matter" when you can't think of a rebuttal. Goku gets taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked. Gotenks and Gohan get taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked and comments that Beerus is stronger than he thought. Simple.

4. Guys are acknowledged as stronger than expected... when they're stronger than expected. He knew Beerus took down Goku with two hits, yet was still surprised that Beerus could easily take down Gotenks. There's nothing in there about him just comprehending the difference better, since he already knew what the difference was. There's absolutely no reason for him to be shocked if Goku was stronger than Gohan and Gotenks. If Beerus can take down Goku in two hits, then no shit he can take down anyone weaker than that in two hits.

5. Except Gotenks and Gohan. They were stronger than Goku, or at least Gotenks was, as clearly implied by Vegeta's statement (and promotional material). At the absolute most, his reaction to Goku being defeated just means that no one else would be capable of nearly killing Goku with two hits. His "I never imagined Beerus would be this strong" after Gotenks loses is clear and obvious in its meaning.

6. Why would the defeat of the group shock him if none of them were stronger than Goku? They all engaged him at one at a time rather than trying to team up on him (except when Piccolo and 18 rushed him), and again, no shit a guy can knock out people weaker than Goku in two hits. So what shocked him? What feat did Beerus perform that put him above merely "two-shots Goku" level? Since Vegeta is weaker than Goku, it can't be easily defeating Vegeta in more than two hits. Since Piccolo, 18, and Tenshinhan are all total fodder (Dabra slaughtered a roughly equal team in seconds back in the Buu arc), it can't be Beerus easily taking them out. Since Mr. Buu is also weaker than Goku, it can't be taking him out in more than two hits. There's nothing else he could be referring to besides Gohan and Gotenks losing (specifically Gotenks, since he only says it after Gotenks is easily beaten, and Goten and Trunks were confident in Gotenks winning after everyone else lost).

7. Their potential was acknowledged at the end.

Vegeta already said that Gotenks had no chance on defeating Lord Beerus. So no, your logic doesn't work.

[RandomGuy96]

He was expecting him to lose, but he wasn't expecting him to lose that easily. He was explicit about that.

[h0kuten]

He was expecting him to lose, but he wasn't expecting him to lose that easily. He was explicit about that.

He said Gotenks had no chance.

[RandomGuy96]

He was expecting him to lose, but he wasn't expecting him to lose that easily. He was explicit about that.

He said Gotenks had no chance.

So?

[h0kuten]

He was expecting him to lose, but he wasn't expecting him to lose that easily. He was explicit about that.

He said Gotenks had no chance.

Yes. So?

So there was nothing to be surprised about.

[RandomGuy96]

Except he was explicitly says he wasn't expecting Beerus to be that strong, so you're wrong.

[h0kuten]

Except he was explicitly says he wasn't expecting Beerus to be that strong, so you're wrong.

He said Gotenks had no chance. This doesn't leave any possibility to be surprised.

[RandomGuy96]

Except he was explicitly says he wasn't expecting Beerus to be that strong, so you're wrong.

He said Gotenks had no chance. This doesn't leave any possibility to be surprised.

It does, since he explicitly was surprised.

[h0kuten]

Except he was explicitly says he wasn't expecting Beerus to be that strong, so you're wrong.

He said Gotenks had no chance. This doesn't leave any possibility to be surprised.

It does, since he explicitly was surprised.

He was surprised that he lost himself, not Gotenks.

[RandomGuy96]

That's total crap, since he doesn't say that after he himself lost, and already knew that Beerus could two-shot someone stronger than him.

[h0kuten]

That's total crap, since he doesn't say that after he himself lost, and already knew that Beerus could two-shot someone stronger than him.

He also never said it was because Gotenks lost. Please list the statement with Gotenks' name in it.

[RandomGuy96]

That's total crap, since he doesn't say that after he himself lost, and already knew that Beerus could two-shot someone stronger than him.

He also never said it was because Gotenks lost. Please list the statement with Gotenks' name in it.

Cut the crap. He said that he was surprised by Beerus's power, even though he already knew Beerus was way stronger than Goku. Your assertion that he was referring to his own defeat as what surprised him was proven wrong. So what else could he have been talking about?

[h0kuten]

That's total crap, since he doesn't say that after he himself lost, and already knew that Beerus could two-shot someone stronger than him.

He also never said it was because Gotenks lost. Please list the statement with Gotenks' name in it.

Cut the crap. He said that he was surprised by Beerus's power, even though he already knew Beerus was way stronger than Goku. Your assertion that he was referring to his own defeat as what surprised him was proven wrong. So what else could he have been talking about?

Please list the statement with Gotenk's name in it.

[RandomGuy96]

Stop dodging the question. What else could he have been talking about?

[h0kuten]

Stop dodging the question. What else could he have been talking about?

So you're twisting things for personal preference, as usual.

[RandomGuy96]

Stop dodging the question. What else could he have been talking about?

So you're twisting things for personal preference, as usual.

So, do you not have an answer?

[h0kuten]

Stop dodging the question. What else could he have been talking about?

So you're twisting things for personal preference, as usual.

So, do you not have an answer?

Please list the statement with Gotenks' name in it.

[RandomGuy96]

I'll take that as a yes. Admitting when you're wrong is a good trait to have. You should try it sometimes, rather than trying to shift goal posts or dodge questions.