Unpopular DB opinions

[Gaffer Tape]

2. Don't know a lot about that

You know, this topic does come up quite a bit, and for some reason, both sides get really passionate about it. I can understand fans of Yamucha being passionate because, well, we like him and don't appreciate the fact that his character was mangled so horrendously in later parts of the series. Don't really get why people who don't like him are so passionate about the subject, but, eh, whatever. But it is so passionate that nothing ever really gets accomplished. So I'm not even going to bother to try and catch up on all the walls of quotes that have transpired while I was at work.

However, I do have to say that this quote says a lot. While you obviously don't like Yamucha (and that's okay; there are a lot of points in the story where I don't like Vegeta, for example), it seems you are basing your opinions of him on an incomplete knowledge of him. You seem to know beginning of DB and DBZ with very little in between. And, honestly, in the span you seem to be missing... he's nothing but the dogged nice guy. He's given moments where he's responsible, generous, proactive, self-sacrificing, self-motivated, the voice of reason, the leader of the entire group. To be honest, he becomes more than a little bland (in my web series, I compare him to Fred from Scooby-Doo if that tells you anything), but he's a genuinely good person. But all you seem to see is the guy who was once a villain (like everyone else) who later gets blown up. And I think that's where our disconnect is coming from. If you did "know a lot about that" you might be able to understand how it seems so insultingly out of character to suddenly and out of nowhere make him a cheater for the sole purpose of pushing a Blooma/Vegeta pairing.

Real Top 5 Great Accomplishments:

1. Fought a starving child to a draw
2. Beat up a little girl
3. Got killed by a Saibaman (hey, at least the Saibaman died too)
4. Punched a dog
5. Presuambly greatly weakened Buu after being consumed, giving Gohan and Gotenks a chance

I assume you're having a bit of fun here, and that's cool, but it does make it harder to take your argument seriously when you're so over the top in pushing him down. Most of these are so out of context it makes you sound like a politician mudslinging an opponent.

1. Yeah, he's a thief. That's bad. Almost immediately gave up that lifestyle after meeting Goku. Different from other characters how? I actually had to re-read your statements about "beating up starving children" because the context was so lacking and skewed I honestly didn't know what you were talking about at first. It makes it sound like he ran into an orphanage and started smacking children in the lunch line. All he wanted was to steal their valuables. Again, bad. It only became a fight when Goku resisted. Not to defend it. Still bad, but the context does make it different. Also, the starving thing? Very much a skewed statement. The fact that he was hungry at the time is totally incidental and doesn't make Yamucha any better or worse for fighting him at that time.

2. Again, that sounds really bad when you don't put any context in it. But apparently you forget that he didn't initiate that fight. He was just standing there minding his own business when crazy girl shoots a freakin' laser beam at him, and he defended himself by subduing her. Certainly quite a bit different from simply "beating up a little girl."

3. Yeah, he was. And while that's the moment people use to make fun of him, that really IS a defining moment for him. That was the moment he put his own life on the line to protect Kuririn. Maybe it was necessary, maybe it wasn't. Maybe if Yamucha had gone first, before Vegeta made an example out of one of the Saibaimen, that one wouldn't have pulled out a desperation move like that. We'll never know. But Yamucha's fight was pretty impressive, so much so that Piccolo had to use it as an example to teach Gohan how to detect extremely fast fighters. So, yeah. He was incredibly selfless and fought impressively.

4. Um... I have a feeling your attempt to remove context to make him look worse than he actually is is obscuring this, but I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here.

5. And that's just being snarky, so I can't add anything to it.

[goku the krump dancer]

Now that I think about it I've disliked pretty much every product since the manga ended. BoG was entertaining until the final battle just felt off. Started to look like a PS3 game.

Well just counting the surge of new animation we've been getting these last couple of years I think the Jump Special did best at succeeding at what it was trying to be.

[Kid Buu]

I didn't HATE the 2008 special, but didn't love it. I've seen it several times, and can't even remember much about it.

[RandomGuy96]

Except it does, Yamcha would've have been able to do that with his phobia.

Again, that's just your assumption, and contradicts the author.

Checked that very chapter right now, Puar doesn't say anything when Yamcha is charging at Goku, and he never asked Yamcha to kill them.

I'm talking about right before Bulma arrived. At least, two other folks in this thread claimed he said that, Pure Buu and Saiga, I figure they can't both be mistaken.

He endangered the people at the tournament, and he didn't take over the world cause of Goku, and later gaining humanity thanks to Gohan.

After he killed Goku, no one was around to stop him from doing whatever he wanted. Yet he didn't cause a ruckus.

Again, I just checked, Puar never said that at all.

Right before Bulma arrived? Even if that were true, the whole motif and style makes him highly, HIGHLY doubt that he killed no one.

Actually its stated he is a beginning assassin.

So, by that point, Ten has already become an assassin? Because that requires him to have at least performed one assassination.

Toriyama never said he considered Yamcha pathetic. He's called him one of the strongest earthlings in series and a loyal friend. Again, that interview contradicted the second hand statement.

It was shown that the Saibamen could've killed any of the protagonists there at the time except for Piccolo. Krillin even admits that it could've happened to him, so he was touched by Yamcha going ahead.

He never said that, but the way he treated Yamcha in the story is more than enough. Killed by a Saibaman, loses his girlfriend, loses his job, one-shotted by 20, eaten by Buu, and never cared about again. Toriyama didn't even give him a single victory that was solely his own (unless you count him beating up a little girl). Everyone else got one, even effin' Chi Chi.

Yeah, that's the point. It could have happened to anyone, yet Toriyama had it happen to Yamcha. That is completely pathetic. The guy who killed Yamcha was a mass produced mook that didn't even have a name.

Actually, I just disproved most of your whole argument which went out of the way to whitewash everyone elses bad actions and demonize Yamcha.

I never said I know more then Toriyama, don't put words in people's mouthes.

You're trying to say that Yamcha didn't cheat, even though Toriyama said that he did.

Now that I think about it I've disliked pretty much every product since the manga ended.

Even the video games?

[Kid Buu]

Toriyama didn't even give him a single victory that was solely his own (unless you count him beating up a little girl). Everyone else got one, even effin' Chi Chi.

Well, do the Budokai fodder count? Since you seem to be counting the Dinosaur for Chichi I assume.

Oh and I meant just the anime. Havent played much of the games.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't know, should they? That was off-screen and they probably were quite weak. At least, weaker relative to the time period than the dinosaur was, because this was still when Goku couldn't tank a shotgun blast.

I assume you're having a bit of fun here, and that's cool, but it does make it harder to take your argument seriously when you're so over the top in pushing him down. Most of these are so out of context it makes you sound like a politician mudslinging an opponent.

Yeah, I was just joking. I thought that the Buu "accomplishment" would make that obvious, which was part of why I threw it in there rather than something he actually did.

I don't really hate Yamcha or anything. I just find him fun to mock, so it's fitting that I'm usually not serious when talking about him.

1. Yeah, he's a thief. That's bad. Almost immediately gave up that lifestyle after meeting Goku. Different from other characters how? I actually had to re-read your statements about "beating up starving children" because the context was so lacking and skewed I honestly didn't know what you were talking about at first. It makes it sound like he ran into an orphanage and started smacking children in the lunch line. All he wanted was to steal their valuables. Again, bad. It only became a fight when Goku resisted. Not to defend it. Still bad, but the context does make it different. Also, the starving thing? Very much a skewed statement. The fact that he was hungry at the time is totally incidental and doesn't make Yamucha any better or worse for fighting him at that time.

Of course it does, it's part of the joke. But again, it's kind of funny when you consider that THIS is the scene where he gets to be the badass rival, and he still can't even beat a starving weak Goku. By contrast, Goku's other rivals could defeat or almost defeat him in their first appearances, except Krillin. Ten, Piccolo, Vegeta...

And it's not really incidental, since starving made Goku far weaker and more defenseless than he normally is.

2. Again, that sounds really bad when you don't put any context in it. But apparently you forget that he didn't initiate that fight. He was just standing there minding his own business when crazy girl shoots a freakin' laser beam at him, and he defended himself by subduing her. Certainly quite a bit different from simply "beating up a little girl."

I was pretty clearly joking here, but I do find it funny that this is really the only fight he won in the manga on his own.

Of course I like to count the filler fight with Recoome just to throw those three a bone, and because it doesn't really contradict anything (and is kinda sorta supported by a V-Jump scan).

3. Yeah, he was. And while that's the moment people use to make fun of him, that really IS a defining moment for him. That was the moment he put his own life on the line to protect Kuririn. Maybe it was necessary, maybe it wasn't. Maybe if Yamucha had gone first, before Vegeta made an example out of one of the Saibaimen, that one wouldn't have pulled out a desperation move like that. We'll never know. But Yamucha's fight was pretty impressive, so much so that Piccolo had to use it as an example to teach Gohan how to detect extremely fast fighters. So, yeah. He was incredibly selfless and fought impressively.

Was it really? Yamcha hit the Saibaman with a Kamehameha off guard and it didn't even injure the thing. By contrast, Krillin's generic ki blasts were able to kill several Saibamen who were on guard. It just looks bad for Yamcha, especially since he was already way stronger than the Saibaman and A. couldn't hit it until the Kamehameha and B. couldn't put it down.

This scene also looks bad because he got killed by one Saibaman after claiming he could take all six.

The "protect Krillin" aspect just makes Yamcha looks even worse considering what happened after.

Yamcha: Don't worry Krillin, I'll pro-(dies)

Krillin: Uh... thanks Yamcha. (easily kills three Saibamen in seconds)

4. Um... I have a feeling your attempt to remove context to make him look worse than he actually is is obscuring this, but I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here.

Again, didn't he beat up Pilaf's dogs? I may be mis-remembering, but I remember him doing something like that.

5. And that's just being snarky, so I can't add anything to it.

Yep.

[Kid Buu]

I don't know, should they? That was off-screen and they probably were quite weak. At least, weaker relative to the time period than the dinosaur was, because this was still when Goku couldn't tank a shotgun blast.

That wasn't off-screen, it was shown in the manga. So was Chichi beating Budokai fodder in the 23rd Budokai.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't know, should they? That was off-screen and they probably were quite weak. At least, weaker relative to the time period than the dinosaur was, because this was still when Goku couldn't tank a shotgun blast.

That wasn't off-screen, it was shown in the manga. So was Chichi beating Budokai fodder in the 23rd Budokai.

Oh, those scenes were shown? Eh... I still don't really feel like it's fair to count him beating them any more than it is to count Krillin beating Pintar as a real victory.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Again, that's just your assumption, and contradicts the author.

No, thats something shown in the series by how Yamcha acts around women.

Again, you keep using Second hand information.

I'm talking about right before Bulma arrived. At least, two other folks in this thread claimed he said that, Pure Buu and Saiga, I figure they can't both be mistaken.

They're incorrect, I just reread it. Puar says to "Kick his butt" in revenge for Oolong bullying him.

Remember Puar is even younger then Goku at this point.

After he killed Goku, no one was around to stop him from doing whatever he wanted. Yet he didn't cause a ruckus.

Because Gohan had made him a better man.

Right before Bulma arrived? Even if that were true, the whole motif and style makes him highly, HIGHLY doubt that he killed no one.

You aren't giving any real reason why he would. There's strong evidence showing he wasn't a killer such as him putting away his weapons or worrying about carrot Bulma's safety.

So, by that point, Ten has already become an assassin? Because that requires him to have at least performed one assassination.

So by your logic, he's probably killed a dozen people then.

But, oh right, only Yamcha's allowed to mistakes.

He never said that, but the way he treated Yamcha in the story is more than enough. Killed by a Saibaman, loses his girlfriend, loses his job, one-shotted by 20, eaten by Buu, and never cared about again. Toriyama didn't even give him a single victory that was solely his own (unless you count him beating up a little girl). Everyone else got one, even effin' Chi Chi.

He lost his girlfriend because the story needed a saiyan hybrid for the storyline and he didn't want to make a new character for Vegeta's wife.

As I explained earlier, Yamcha's record is hardly any worse then anyone else. Infact, its better then several characters.

When did Chi-Chi get any victory besides fodder?

Actually several other characters like Yajirobe and Chiaotzu get it far worse, they don't even make it past the preleminaries for example.

Yeah, that's the point. It could have happened to anyone, yet Toriyama had it happen to Yamcha. That is completely pathetic. The guy who killed Yamcha was a mass produced mook that didn't even have a name.

Almost every non Goku character had a really embarassing defeat to their record. Krillin lost to an opponent beat by Puar and Upa of all things.

You're trying to say that Yamcha didn't cheat, even though Toriyama said that he did.

Except, all you have is a second hand source, while I have a first hand interview where Toriyama says something that totally contradicts Yamcha being a playboy.

[RandomGuy96]

Again, it doesn't actually contradict it. It just contradicts it in your own mind.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Again, it doesn't actually contradict it. It just contradicts it in your own mind.

Now, you're just mudslinging because you can't do a real response.

[RandomGuy96]

Again, it doesn't actually contradict it. It just contradicts it in your own mind.

Now, you're just mudslinging because you can't do a real response.

Uh, no. Again, nothing you've posted actually contradicts Yamcha being a playboy, or at least cheating on Bulma. All you're doing is saying "YAMCHA HAS THESE CHARACTERISTICS SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO EVER DO THIS EVER". I didn't respond to the bulk of your post because you formatted wrong, and it looked like you just quoted me.

No, thats something shown in the series by how Yamcha acts around women.

Again, you keep using Second hand information.

As rereboy points out, being nervous and lacking self-confidence would make him MORE likely to cheat. Not less.

They're incorrect, I just reread it. Puar says to "Kick his butt" in revenge for Oolong bullying him.

Remember Puar is even younger then Goku at this point.

That's interesting then.

Because Gohan had made him a better man.

I'm talking about literally right after.

You aren't giving any real reason why he would. There's strong evidence showing he wasn't a killer such as him putting away his weapons or worrying about carrot Bulma's safety.

Because he's a bandit who carries lethal weaponry?

So by your logic, he's probably killed a dozen people then.

But, oh right, only Yamcha's allowed to mistakes.

Again, was it actually out and out stated that he was an assassin already? If so, then yes, he definitely should have killed someone.

He lost his girlfriend because the story needed a saiyan hybrid for the storyline and he didn't want to make a new character for Vegeta's wife.

Out of universe. In-universe, because he cheated.

As I explained earlier, Yamcha's record is hardly any worse then anyone else. Infact, its better then several characters.

Who has he beat? Invisible Man? I think that's it.

When did Chi-Chi get any victory besides fodder?

Dinosaur.

Actually several other characters like Yajirobe and Chiaotzu get it far worse, they don't even make it past the preleminaries for example.

Yajirobe beat Cymbal alone, saved Goku's life, fought him to a draw while he was full, saved everyone from Ozaru Vegeta, and helped beat regular Vegeta.

Chiaotzu is not even worth talking about.

Almost every non Goku character had a really embarassing defeat to their record. Krillin lost to an opponent beat by Puar and Upa of all things.

None of them got beat by someone way weaker than them who didn't even have a name.

[Kid Buu]

None of them got beat by someone way weaker than them who didn't even have a name.

That's not true, Krllin got beat by the Vampire Dude who I think only had a name in the dub.

[RandomGuy96]

None of them got beat by someone way weaker than them who didn't even have a name.

That's not true, Krllin got beat by the Vampire Dude who I think only had a name in the dub.

Vampire Dude didn't have a name in the original? Well, at least he had a distinct appearance. The Saibamen were 'faceless', mass produced mooks. And everyone else just casually one-shotted them, making Yamcha look worse.

[Kid Buu]

Sadly, I think the RRA arc is the only time Yamcha doesn't perform the worst of the bunch. Oh well, at least he's better than Chaotzu.

Edit: Oh, 23rd Budokai arc. Does better than Yajirobe there.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Uh, no. Again, nothing you've posted actually contradicts Yamcha being a playboy, or at least cheating on Bulma. All you're doing is saying "YAMCHA HAS THESE CHARACTERISTICS SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO EVER DO THIS EVER". I didn't respond to the bulk of your post because you formatted wrong, and it looked like you just quoted me.

We're shown many times Yamcha is barely incapable of being around women, how would he be able to maintain the willpower to have do it with his phobia.

Also you're resorting to mudslinging again.

As rereboy points out, being nervous and lacking self-confidence would make him MORE likely to cheat. Not less.

Unless date rape is involved not really.

Because he's a bandit who carries lethal weaponry?

Which he doesn't use when he's serious.

He lost his girlfriend because the story needed a saiyan hybrid for the storyline and he didn't want to make a new character for Vegeta's wife.

I already explained this to you.

Who has he beat? Invisible Man? I think that's it.

Goku(though him losing his energy played a part),Rabbit Gang ,Chi-Chi, Oozaru, and numerous preliminary fighters/fodder. The list is bigger if we include filler and movies.

Roshi also privately admits that Goku, Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Yamcha has surpassed him at the 23rd tournament.

Yajirobe only beat cymbal, never got past the preliminaries, and Oozaru Vegeta. According to all guides, Yajirobe is vastly behind everyone else in power.

Chaozu never won a single fight in the manga, didn't make it past the preliminaries and his only effect on the plot at all was fixing the tournament matches. The only fight Chaozu won in filler was against Guldo.

Neither surpassed Roshi according to the guides.

Dinosaur.

That counts as fodder. And Yamcha beat her afterwards with only one blow.

None of them got beat by someone way weaker than them who didn't even have a name.

The vampire had no name, and was probably weaker then Krillin considering Puar and Upa beat him easily.

I'll also note that the saibamen fighting Tenshinhan was playing around prompting Vegeta to kill it.

[Saiga]

RandomGuy, the dialogue you're thinking of, where Puar tells Yamcha to kill them, is present in Viz's translation of the manga at the very least. In volume 1, page 122 (chapter 8, page 3), when Oolong tells Yamcha to get lost, we have:

Yamcha: "Oh, really? Well, if you're that eager to see heaven..."
Puar: "Yeah!!" Kill 'em, Lord Yamcha!!"

Not sure about the original Japanese lines except that Yamcha does mention heaven in that version as well.

[Kid Buu]

I think Puar has a better win record than Yamcha. :/

[RandomGuy96]

RandomGuy, the dialogue you're thinking of, where Puar tells Yamcha to kill them, is present in Viz's translation of the manga at the very least. In volume 1, page 122 (chapter 8, page 3), when Oolong tells Yamcha to get lost, we have:

Yamcha: "Oh, really? Well, if you're that eager to see heaven..."
Puar: "Yeah!!" Kill 'em, Lord Yamcha!!"

Not sure about the original Japanese lines except that Yamcha does mention heaven in that version as well.

Oh, well. That's also interesting.

We're shown many times Yamcha is barely incapable of being around women, how would he be able to maintain the willpower to have do it with his phobia.

Also you're resorting to mudslinging again.

Be able to maintain the will power to accept offers of sex? It's not that hard.

Unless date rape is involved not really.

As rereboy noted, an insecure and nervous guy would be more likely to cheat precisely because they're bad with women, and would be more suspectible to seduction and flattery.

Which he doesn't use when he's serious.

What translation are you using? Viz? Because if Saiga is correct, Puar was expecting Yamcha to kill them, which implies... things.

I already explained this to you.

You quoted yourself.

Goku(though him losing his energy played a part),Rabbit Gang ,Chi-Chi, Oozaru, and numerous preliminary fighters/fodder. The list is bigger if we include filler and movies.

Draw (and Goku was weakened), Goku weakened them first, not really a fight (was Chi Chi even superhuman by this point?), just helped (Puar did more work than him), don't really count as fights (unless Krillin vs Pintar counts). Who did he beat in the movies?

Roshi also privately admits that Goku, Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Yamcha has surpassed him at the 23rd tournament.

So? We already knew that at the beginning of the series when everyone's resting power levels were read:

Roshi- 139
Yamcha- 177
Krillin- 206
Tenshinhan- 250

Yajirobe only beat cymbal, never got past the preliminaries, and Oozaru Vegeta. According to all guides, Yajirobe is vastly behind everyone else in power.

He fought Goku to a draw legitimately and beat Cymbal alone. He also basically defeated Oozaru Vegeta alone, which is impressive as hell. Yamcha had to attack a weakened and starving Goku to get a draw (he was stomped in the rematch) and had help against Invisible Man. Yeah, Yajirobe is weaker than the others. I don't think that was ever in doubt.

Chaozu never won a single fight in the manga, didn't make it past the preliminaries and his only effect on the plot at all was fixing the tournament matches. The only fight Chaozu won in filler was against Guldo.

Yeah, Chiaotzu's pathetic. So?

Neither surpassed Roshi according to the guides.

Lolno

Roshi- 139

Chiaotzu- 610
--+Kaio training- way effin' higher

Yajirobe- 970

That counts as fodder. And Yamcha beat her afterwards with only one blow.

Do remember that at this point, bullets are still a threat, so killing a dinosaur would actually be impressive.

The vampire had no name, and was probably weaker then Krillin considering Puar and Upa beat him easily.

I'll also note that the saibamen fighting Tenshinhan was playing around prompting Vegeta to kill it.

My mistake, he had a name in the dub. But the point is the Vampire still had a distinct appearance and identity. The Saibamen were mass produced 'faceless' henchmen who the other characters effortlessly one-shotted.

I think Puar has a better win record than Yamcha. :/

Has Puar ever actually lost? He helped beat Oozaru Goku and the Vampire Dude.

[Kid Buu]

Puar beat Oolong as well, by turning into a fly swatter and hitting him. He lost to The Mummy, but that was filler interference.

Yamcha beat Oolong too in DB Movie 4 actually. Just kicked him away. Poor Oolong.