Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:51 pm

Wow....Ramsey's MySpace looks like a 14 year old girl's.

Ramsey's profile wrote:If u don't know what "epitome or enigma" means then u needs to get a dictionary or get haill outta here.

I'm glad such a master of words was chosen to write the screenplay. Consider my faith restored!

-Corey

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:56 pm

Ben Ramsey is awesome. Pretty smart guy.

DBHighDefinition · Post by **DBHighDefinition** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:57 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Wow....Ramsey's MySpace looks like a 14 year old girl's.

Ramsey's profile wrote:If u don't know what "epitome or enigma" means then u needs to get a dictionary or get haill outta here.
I'm glad such a master of words was chosen to write the screenplay. Consider my faith restored!

-Corey

He's just tryin' to get down with da' kids, playa.

masenko · Post by **masenko** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:59 pm

Ramsey clearly is in the right here. DTX's e-mail was juvenile and unworthy of being read by anyone. I find it appalling that his e-mail was read by the person who physically wrote this movie. It's a movie folks. Soldiers are dying overseas and some of us have gone out of our way to insult someone's hard work. And yes, HARD work. As an independent screenwriter myself, I can fully state that no script in Hollywood is just PISSED OUT. It takes time, and it costs money.
Don't embellish yourselves with the idea that Ramsey, Wong, etc. just decided to cash-in on the property. DragonBall isn't really that big anymore. Sooo, go see the movie! If you hate it after WATCHING IT, then you can have a relatable "Opinion". Heck, I love Star Wars, i didn't care for the prequels but I wasn't one of the people who claimed Lucas RAPED my childhood. For just about all of us, our childhood is over. Let's start acting like adults.

In the eyes of Son Goku, everyone deserves a chance. Because even someone who appears to be our greatest villian, can give us something worthwhile.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:00 pm

So Ben, when's that documentary about rabidded fans come out?

Seriously, the Ram's got a huge point. Absolutely huge. I concur, even if I highly dislike his characterization of the Son Gokû character.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:07 pm

masenko wrote:Soldiers are dying overseas and some of us have gone out of our way to insult someone's hard work.

What the hell kind of argument is that? Everything can be trivialized by invoking something that has far greater weight or ramifications, it doesn't make it a sound argument though. At least when Ramsey made his point, he was citing something relevant (as DTX brought up rape). Randomly saying something pretentious like "Soldiers are dying and you're insulting someone's hard work" does nothing but make you look like a jackass.

-Corey

DBHighDefinition · Post by **DBHighDefinition** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:23 pm

Man, after reading all the hate-mail Ramsey gets, I'm starting to really feel for him. I mean, it's just a movie, and he has to put with more threats than a politician.

My respect for Ramsey has gone up 207.3%.

SSj Kaboom wrote:Ben Ramsey is awesome. Pretty smart guy.

You see, that sounds a lot better than getting gay with him, right?

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:41 pm

Chuquita wrote:Maybe when I finish the novel I'll make a list of "good" and "bad" stuff related to Goku to add to this thread.

That would be a nice read. You should definitely go ahead and do that after finishing the novel (Which hopefully won't take very long if there's only around twenty pages left).

Not to mention all the "DBE" gags they've got now that they've retitled the Dragon Radar that. They're not clever, they make me cringe.[/quite]

DBE gags? Elaborate.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:48 pm

Chuquita wrote:Well, I haven't finished reading yet (I'm reading along with the posted scans of the novel, they're up to page 131 of 152) but not much has really changed. Whenever I find something good it ends up being overshadowed by half a dozen things I find bad and out of character.

Would you say that the whole "High School/Chi Chi" story elements are what keep Goku from being in character the most? Like if you took those things out would it make things better or is he just completely out of character regardless of those story lines?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:31 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Maybe when I finish the novel I'll make a list of "good" and "bad" stuff related to Goku to add to this thread.
That would be a nice read. You should definitely go ahead and do that after finishing the novel (Which hopefully won't take very long if there's only around twenty pages left).

Not to mention all the "DBE" gags they've got now that they've retitled the Dragon Radar that. They're not clever, they make me cringe.
DBE gags? Elaborate.

I finished reading it earlier today; I plan to compile a list later on tonight (when I hope to post it too).

Off the top of my head I distinctly remember when they rename the PEE the DBE, Bulma comments on how clever and catchy a name it is. The way she says it sounds like they're patting themselves on the back. >_O
There's a few other situations like that, but I plan to go back through the chapters to find them (as I'll scan through the chapters again when I make my list). I trust it better when I have the source infront of me than going off my memory. I promise it'll be in the list though.

Chrono Trigger wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Well, I haven't finished reading yet (I'm reading along with the posted scans of the novel, they're up to page 131 of 152) but not much has really changed. Whenever I find something good it ends up being overshadowed by half a dozen things I find bad and out of character.
Would you say that the whole "High School/Chi Chi" story elements are what keep Goku from being in character the most? Like if you took those things out would it make things better or is he just completely out of character regardless of those story lines?

That's a good 80% of it, the other 20% would be that this Goku has issues learning how to control his ki and even has issues performing the kamehameha. The Goku of the manga/anime was practically a savant when it came to that sort of thing. I understand why they changed these things (to make him "easier to relate to") but I just feel put off by it because that's not how Goku is. That's more Kuririn or Gohan. Actually, the more I think about it, the more Chatku does remind me of Kuririn....

But yeah, most of it, for me, does relate back to Chi-Chi and "high school". In the series Goku never desires to "fit in". He's unique and he's okay with that. The few times Chi-Chi does try to pressure Goku to "fit in" he's all :p about it. (See Movie 8 where she stuffs him in a suit and tries to get him to lie about himself to the teachers at Gohan's perspective school). "Reading and sports." anyone?

While I like Goku and Chi-Chi as a couple, him crushing on her bothers me because in the series, until they start living together, he's pretty much oblivious to romance. In the junior novel whenever Chi-Chi pops up Goku ends up sounding way too "shoujo manga heroine" for me. When she's not there he seems more like Goku. So yes, take away the "love interest" and you have a more IC Goku.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:42 pm

Chuquita wrote:When she's not there he seems more like Goku. So yes, take away the "love interest" and you have a more IC Goku.

Well she isn't around a lot right? I hope not. She isn't around during the final battle is she? You would think Chi-Chi wouldn't be in the THAT much. What about Bulma? What did you think of her? Were the interactions between here and Goku good at least?

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:57 pm

Haha, Ben Ramsey's response was brilliant. And I agree, as soon as anyone utters the words "Raped my chidhood," whether it's about Dragon Ball or Star Wars or Indiana Jones or Transformers or Ninja Turtles or whatever the fuck they are on about, those 3 words honestly make me lose about as much respect as I could justify losing for said person. It's ridiculous. And yes, I've once said a similar thing, but in more of a joking way. This was when Ace Ventura Jr. was in production, and Jim Carrey was my childhood idol, and I think I said something so "So this is what it feels like to have a childhood raped." And even I feel that was ridiculous. Looking back, I feel like a complete retard for it, even though I wasn't being as serious as all of that, since I don't plan on ever watching the movie, and have found it more hilarious than anything that it ended up being released to DVD with horrible response. Did I ever actually feel like a part of my childhood was destroyed? No way. If I hate Evolution, am I going to line up and watch it again, just so I can get all the complaints in order for this forum? No, I'm going to come home, maybe state that I didn't like it here, but then I will probably go play a few rounds of Sparking! METEOR, and then may be watch a few episodes of the series. Hell, since it's around the time of the Supanova, I may have all the manga to read, so I look forward to that. Alright, I'm rambling, point is, Ramsey is right. People need to stop acting as if they are taking the origninal series away from you. I'll say the same thing about Kai. Because I love Dragon Ball, I do, but I have much more important things in my life to worry about without spending time dwelling on the fact that they made Goku go to high school.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:03 pm

Chrono Trigger wrote:
Chuquita wrote:When she's not there he seems more like Goku. So yes, take away the "love interest" and you have a more IC Goku.
Well she isn't around a lot right? I hope not. She isn't around during the final battle is she? You would think Chi-Chi wouldn't be in the THAT much. What about Bulma? What did you think of her? Were the interactions between here and Goku good at least?

In the junior novel she comes and goes. To make a mini-list of her appearances:
-First 3 or 4 chapters
-When they arrive at the training grounds
-The tournament
-When Goku tries to use his ki to light the lamp-posts up until Mai escapes with the dragon balls
-The entire epilogue

But every time Chi-Chi shows up, Goku turns into a puddle of love-induced mush. When she leaves, he's more like the Goku in the series.
So yes, I blame Chi-Chi.
And movie-Goku for being gifted with an active libido.

Bulma I'm actually pretty okay with. Even though the results of what she wants to do with the dragon balls in this (that is, use them to create a new energy source) is rather selfless, her reason behind why (she wants to be famous) is selfish enough to be in-character for her.
Plus this is Mid-20's Bulma, not 16 year old Bulma; she's going to be more mature (and less driven by her sex drive). It's a given.

(Also I love the unintentional mention of her liking "Bad Men"; because it makes me think of Vegeta's pink shirt.)

I'm also okay with movie-Bulma's weapons. She's seen using them in so many title pages (and in one of the DB movies she actually shoots down enemy planes while flying her own) and her character doesn't sound like Launch (thank goodness) so yeah, I'm alright with her. No worries about movie-Bulma.

I'll add stuff about her interactions with Goku in the list, because that'll take a while.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:17 pm

Having read most the junior novel, I can safely say they made the dialogue a lot less sophisticated (not that the script is that intellectual) because, duh, it's for juniors.

Like Ramsey just clarified, Bulma is not named Bulma Enchanto despite that being in the junior novel. The authors of the novel added that BS.

DominatorLost · Post by **DominatorLost** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:37 pm

Little late here, just reading what DTX did.

I seriously can't believe he went out of his way to do that.

What a fucking idiot.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 pm

DominatorLost wrote:Little late here, just reading what DTX did.

I seriously can't believe he went out of his way to do that.

What a fucking idiot.

That's what obsession does to you.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:43 am

As it'd take ages and ages to cover everything in the novel (and as mentioned, the novel doesn't completely = the movie itself. I plan on saving any in-depth feedback for the actual film.) I'm just gonna cover the character I have the most concern for and care the most about in terms of how he was adapted.

Chu's List of Pluses and Minuses in relation to Son Goku via the Junior Novel:
+mentally going over what he plans to achieve in training
-worrying about how unfashionable and different his hair looks
+does a decent job in sparring against Gohan Sr.
-can't focus his ki to perform an attack
-upset at being "different"
-wanting to be taught "normal" things
-letting others push him around
-crushing over Chi-Chi
-stumbling/stammering over Chi-Chi
+will eat food that others would find disgusting
-hair gel hair gel hair gel (Heaven help me, HAIR GEL

)
-ditching a feast of his favorite foods
+beating up the guys who were pushing him around
-enjoying Chi-Chi's "closeness".
+being able to sense that Gohan's in danger
+sorrow at what's happened to Gohan
-having visions from simply touching the dragon ball
+respectfully burying Gohan's body
+taking comfort in Gohan's possessions as a connection to him
+thinking the intruder is an enemy
-knowing what a "laser-guided high-tech weapon" is
+initial interaction with Bulma
+commenting on the PEE feels Dr. Slumpish
-knowing who Thomas Edison is
+making fun of Bulma's name
-warning Bulma that the trip will be dangerous and that they could die
+"ravenously eating a sandwich"
+the master phonebook bit
-worried about breaking into the house
+catching the various fallen objects at super-speed
+fighting Roshi and doing well at at it
-GAH! Another dragon ball induced "vision" >_O
+easily carrying the super-backpack-of-giganticness
-irritated about having to do so while the others ride the motorbike
+impressed with how well he can run with the backpack
-oh mother of crimpets, Chi-Chi's back. Exit Goku. Enter Romantiku.
-wanting to stay all day and talk to her instead of train/adventure
-he wants to go to the tournament to see her, not the tournament itself
+one-handed hand-stand
+trying to climb out of the pit; feels much like Pilaf's trap with the heat
+20 foot long super-jump
-another vision-from-touching-the-dragon-ball
-his vision leaving him shellshocked
-where'd he get a blade?
+the battle against the fu lums
+making a "bridge"
-vision-of-the-dragon-balls #4
-the "emotion of the embrace" and Goku "beaming" at Chi-Chi's hug
-Goku still can't get his ki to not be "shaky" and "uneven"
-cheating at lighting the lamps
-not being able to light them with the kamehameha until Chi-Chi tries to bribe him with more physical closeness; it feels in bad taste to make a comparison to 'natural male enhancement' drugs and/or cheesy 'I can only do it if my true love is with me' romances, but that's still what it reminds me of
-"With large steps he covered the remaining distance to Chi-Chi and hugged her tightly"
-not being able to identify the real Chi-Chi of the two
+the orange gi top
-the lack of the orange gi pants
+"My name is Goku, and I'm here to destroy you." Excellently to the point, no speeches
-the entirely convoluted dragon ball/oozaru thing that's going on
-semi-unrelated but HOW does Piccolo, who's been trapped for 2000 years, know that Goku is Kakarrotto?!
-tiny oozaru
+at least its got red eyes
-oozaru taking orders from Piccolo
-Goku de-transforming from oozaru form by his own will instead of a chopped off tail
+"Nyoibo extend!" Many thumbs-up for that. :3
+Goku fighting Piccolo and his ki actually working this time
-pseudo ssj4 without the fur
+Kamehameha time :3
-Must it end with more mushy Son loves Chi-Chi moments?

And there you go. *Lets out a deep breath*

Total:
29 Pluses
68 Minuses

For every good thing I liked about Goku in this novel, I found a little over two bad things I didn't like about him.
But hey I didn't dislike everything, so there is that I guess.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:49 am

What is so wrong about Goku not being an asshole to ChiChi?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:00 am

Rocketman wrote:What is so wrong about Goku not being an asshole to ChiChi?

I don't think he's an asshole, he's just really air-headed sometimes.
It's out of character for him to fall head-over-heels for her in this movie. ^^;
Imagine Vegeta dropping down on one knee to profess his undying love to Bulma back during the Freeza arc. It feels like that.

I mean I'm happy for Chi-Chi to finally get the type of Goku she wanted in the series, but its just not in character for Goku to act that way.

When they start living together post-23rd Budoukai; that's when he falls in love with her. It's from getting to know her, not from her being the object of a crush.

Goku does love her, but he doesn't show it in a typical romantic manner. Toriyama's not comfortable with writing romance; he's said so and it shows in his characters' relationships.

I like G/CC, they're one of my favorite couples, but watching Goku gush over her at such an early stage of their relationship doesn't make sense to me.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:23 am

Hey, I'm totally fine with Goku hearts Chi-Chi. First of all, I've far accepted the fact that Chatku is not Goku. Second of all, romance will make the movie somewhat appealing to girls who aren't fans.

From reading your list, Chu, I found very little that I still found unsettling. Most of it had to do with Oozaru, but hey, at least it's a monkey.