Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheSaiyanGod]

No, goku and Frieza are stated to be equals in the show by Whis and this is shown when they knocked each other out.

Frieza is stated to be equal to Goku in the show whom toei states is the strongest in U7. Very simple. I don't know what kaioken has to do with it but the show and toeis pamphlet paint a simple narrative.

The Goku that Frieza was stated to be equal to and shown to be on the same level as is stated by the creators of the show to be the strongest in U7. No amount of reaching will change that.

And the baseball match counts just like every other part of super. Goku pushed back vegetas full power and he wasn't weaker against merged zamasu. There's zero reason to believe that vegeta is magnitudes stronger. The status quo in the story is that they're equals in the same form and it's likely going to stay that way.

Goku and Freeza are declared equal in the show, yes.
But, we have clearly seen that this refers to Goku SSB and Golden Freeza. Kaioken is not included here (otherwise, Freeza would have beaten Goku SSB on EP 96).

The same goes for the declaration in Animedia. It is said that Goku is the strongest, so this obviously refers to the Kaioken (since that leaves him above Freeza and Vegeta). Because only with Blue, Freeza is on the same level as him (does not mean that Freeza is the stronger next to Goku).

And as I said Vegeta was not even included, his power was not measured

I think in the next episode Vegeta is going to be combining SSJB with the rage boost power he used against Beerus back in BoG. That's how he will be able to fight Jiren like how he was shown doing.

I believe only a rage boost would be disappointing. Vegeta needs to show something new, something that surpasses Blue to be able to face Jiren

That isn't coherent and you didn't address anything. The same company making the show released the pamphlet and in both of them the same thing is said. Goku and Frieza are equal.

You have no evidence whatsoever that Goku is only the strongest with kaioken. You keep saying this over and over again. Especially not when Goku already pushed back vegetas full power before the TOP arc.

Goku and Frieza stated to be equals in the show. Toeis own pamphlet reiterates what's in the show. Goku is the strongest and Frieza is on his level, therefore vegeta isn't stronger than Goku or Frieza. The statements coincide. Whatever version of goku that Frieza is comparable to, that Goku is the strongest.

Okay, so for you Golden Freeza = Goku SSB KK x20.

After all, the "pamphlet" says that Goku and Freeza have the same level, and for you that means that the Kaioken is included in it.

Why was it not said that Goku and Freeza were the strongest?
It was only said that GOKU was the strongest and Freeza had his level (as shown in EP 95, Freeza = SSB Goku).
The show never indicated that Golden Freeza was stronger than Vegeta SSB, stop talking about it based on faulty interpretations of magazines

Vegeta is obviously getting a rage boost. At the beginning of the NEP, Blue Vegeta tries to attack Jiren from behind, and Jiren just casually punches him away like he's nothing.

AND?

Vegeta may have simply shown a more powerful Blue to face Jiren (the justification may be his training in RoSaT). Goku himself says that it is for him to overcome his limits, so something he will show. Anger would be very predictable

[pacz360]

Freeza isn't stronger than vegeta get that shit outta here
Anyways this episode confirms that I was right 17 was infact blue level along with Gohan

Um...No. We know for a fact that Pre-episode 121 Vegeta is weaker than Freeza. Get over it.

Anyways. If people are going to claim that SSB Vegeta>Kaioken x20 SSB Goku, they might as well go all the way and say SSB Vegeta is at least comparable to UI Goku. SSB Vegeta in the preview is pressuring Jiren more than the goddamn Spirit Bomb did and apparently thats too much for Vegeta fans? Eitfher go all the way or dont make them at all.

Freeza has show nothing in the show that's put him >vegeta
Prove feats in the show that's puts Freeza>vegeta I'll wait
B-but toei said Freeza
Yet in the show ssjb goku stalemated him
I repeat show proof that Freeza >vegeta
Oh wait there is none

[Bullza]

Anyways this episode confirms that I was right 17 was infact blue level along with Gohan

Not really.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

People haven't talked about it, but it looks like Ultimate Gohan MIGHT fight with Toppo, based on a brief few frames in the NEP.

The NEP is always intentionally misleading to a degree, so take this with a grain of salt. It might be misdirection, or it might be the real deal.

If it does indeed happen, we might FINALLY get ABSOLUTE clarification on where Gohan stands next to his dad. Again, IF it happens. It may very well not.

[Jackalope89]

Yeah, not touching that back and forth about "Freeza strong!" "No, Vegeta strong!" thing.

I'll just say, that Vegeta is certainly pushing Jiren like not even Ultra Instinct Goku could. And landing, just from the preview, two clear body blows. Vegeta, I think, has always been the more aggressive of the two, and more technical. And, if true, it wouldn't be the first time Vegeta surpassed Goku.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

Gohan battling Toppo is a great match-up between two SSB tier warriors - finally we'll see GOAThan absolutely body that oversized Pride Trooper!
ps 17 looks to be Blue tier as well, I wouldn't sleep on him...

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Gohan battling Toppo is a great match-up between two SSB tier warriors - finally we'll see GOAThan absolutely body that oversized Pride Trooper!
ps 17 looks to be Blue tier as well, I wouldn't sleep on him...

GOHAN BLANCO IS STRONGEST THERE IS!

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku and Freeza are declared equal in the show, yes.
But, we have clearly seen that this refers to Goku SSB and Golden Freeza. Kaioken is not included here (otherwise, Freeza would have beaten Goku SSB on EP 96).

The same goes for the declaration in Animedia. It is said that Goku is the strongest, so this obviously refers to the Kaioken (since that leaves him above Freeza and Vegeta). Because only with Blue, Freeza is on the same level as him (does not mean that Freeza is the stronger next to Goku).

And as I said Vegeta was not even included, his power was not measured



I believe only a rage boost would be disappointing. Vegeta needs to show something new, something that surpasses Blue to be able to face Jiren

That isn't coherent and you didn't address anything. The same company making the show released the pamphlet and in both of them the same thing is said. Goku and Frieza are equal.

You have no evidence whatsoever that Goku is only the strongest with kaioken. You keep saying this over and over again. Especially not when Goku already pushed back vegetas full power before the TOP arc.

Goku and Frieza stated to be equals in the show. Toeis own pamphlet reiterates what's in the show. Goku is the strongest and Frieza is on his level, therefore vegeta isn't stronger than Goku or Frieza. The statements coincide. Whatever version of goku that Frieza is comparable to, that Goku is the strongest.

Okay, so for you Golden Freeza = Goku SSB KK x20.

After all, the "pamphlet" says that Goku and Freeza have the same level, and for you that means that the Kaioken is included in it.

Why was it not said that Goku and Freeza were the strongest?
It was only said that GOKU was the strongest and Freeza had his level (as shown in EP 95, Freeza = SSB Goku).
The show never indicated that Golden Freeza was stronger than Vegeta SSB, stop talking about it based on faulty interpretations of magazines

Vegeta is obviously getting a rage boost. At the beginning of the NEP, Blue Vegeta tries to attack Jiren from behind, and Jiren just casually punches him away like he's nothing.

AND?

Vegeta may have simply shown a more powerful Blue to face Jiren (the justification may be his training in RoSaT). Goku himself says that it is for him to overcome his limits, so something he will show. Anger would be very predictable

The show says that Frieza and Goku are equals and toei stated that Frieza is on the same level as the strongest. Not sure what kaioken has to do with anything. Gokus strongest form is blue. Might as well say the spirit bomb disproves the creators own word as well.

But the show and toei have already ended this. Ssb Goku is the strongest and Frieza is on his level. Vegeta can at most be equal to those 2, not stronger.

And we already have a direct feat showing that vegeta was not stronger than Goku after the future trunks arc, so it's moot.

[Sora Saiyan]

Interestingly enough, even after using the Kaio Ken time 4, he could still use Kaio Ken sporatically, and considering Vegeta was in a weakened state, he may have had some kind of chance against him.
Hell even against Freeza, espicially in the anime, Goku still had some spirit to fight back against Freeza after using the KaioKen X20.

Yes he could still use it, but until Vegeta made the power ball he wasn’t anywhere near as weakened as Goku, and base KK didn’t do jack to Vegeta when Goku was in perfect condition, now that a pat can cause him tremendous pain he’d have no chance.

Yes he had the will to fight, but willpower alone won’t do anything.

[pacz360]

Anyways this episode confirms that I was right 17 was infact blue level along with Gohan

Not really.

Denial isn't healthy
Episode portrayed him around the same tier as the others
His barrier allowed him to go through an attack that pushed ssjb goku ssjb vegeta ultimate Gohan and golden Freeza back

[Issei189]

Anyways this episode confirms that I was right 17 was infact blue level along with Gohan

Not really.

Denial isn't healthy
Episode portrayed him around the same tier as the others
His barrier allowed him to go through an attack that pushed ssjb goku ssjb vegeta ultimate Gohan and golden Freeza back

The Next episode might determine his and Gohan's level if Toppo is taking on both of them

[Noah]

Honestly I see Toppo crushing them both, unless Gohan comes with Blanco another BS power-up due a rage boost, the same could applied to #17 but with the excuse "The time has come to use my full power" or any other BS like that.

[Bullza]

Denial isn't healthy
Episode portrayed him around the same tier as the others
His barrier allowed him to go through an attack that pushed ssjb goku ssjb vegeta ultimate Gohan and golden Freeza back

It didn't really, they all kind of just did what they did. They could all be on the same Tier but nothing outright proves it for sure.

Perhaps the barrier is really strong or something, it's a bit inconsistent seeing as it tanked Blue Goku's Kamehameha bit was shattered by Ribrianne's kick.

Toppo is on that Tier so we should know next week if he stomps them both.

[Almighty Majin]

I expect some master class bullshit concerning Vegeta next episode. He's been so spectacularly out classed by Goku's basic KK Blue combo alone that him not getting one shotted out of the arena after a glare from Jiren should make for some real excellent writing when next we see Super.

And no, don't tell me "watch the episode!" cause I've got a 100+ episodes of Super that set a precedent or twenty thousand for how nonsense powers are.

To be fair, the Final Flash's multiplier (fully charged, at least) is fucking broken.

Vegeta and Trunks shat their pants when they sensed MSS Goku's 50% power (and they didn't even know it was 50%). Later, Cell rivals 100% Goku while suppressed and powers-up like twice while facing Gohan. And the Final Flash managed to tear off half of Cell's body and probably would have killed him if Vegeta didn't adjust the attack's trajectory to spare the Earth. This is an improved Final Flash several arcs later.

Though of course this doesn't excuse Vegeta being able to give Jiren trouble with normal punches and kicks.

I agree with this. I think that the fact that since FF is a super charged attack, it would grant a massive power boost just like how SBC does to Piccolo except probably on a larger scale.

[pacz360]

Denial isn't healthy
Episode portrayed him around the same tier as the others
His barrier allowed him to go through an attack that pushed ssjb goku ssjb vegeta ultimate Gohan and golden Freeza back

It didn't really, they all kind of just did what they did. They could all be on the same Tier but nothing outright proves it for sure.

Perhaps the barrier is really strong or something, it's a bit inconsistent seeing as it tanked Blue Goku's Kamehameha bit was shattered by Ribrianne's kick.

Toppo is on that Tier so we should know next week if he stomps them both.

17 can make that shit strong as he wants to
Goku and vegeta tend to sandbag so 17 can as well
Dude straight up pushes through a +5xssb level attack

[TheDipDap1234]

How would you guys rank the Universe 3 fighters from strongest to weakest? My rankings would be:

1) Aniraza
2) The merged robot (forgot its name)
3) Maji Kayo
4) Katopesla
5) Viara
6) Bollareta
7) Panchia
Koitsukai
9) Narirama
10) Nigrisshi
11) The Preecho
12) Paparoni

[ToshioWrites]

I know we haven't seen Jiren at full power but I still find it hard to believe Vegito in Blue wouldn't be on his level if not far beyond. I mean look at how strong Kefla and Aniraza were and they were composed of fighters far inferior to Goku and Vegeta. At the very least I think Vegito would be on par with Gods of Destruction

[Miracles]

Freeza only showed himself to be equal with Blue Goku when they KO'd each other. I wouldn't go and put him above Vegeta either until we see them both go all out. Which is very soon.

[Hugo Boss]

I’m seriously in doubt if 17 is stronger than SSG Goku, but perhaps the show wanted to give that special moment before the character leaves the stage. That is what I’m expecting for Vegeta too in the next episode. They are all accomplishing feats above their standard limits.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I’m seriously in doubt if 17 is stronger than SSG Goku, but perhaps the show wanted to give that special moment before the character leaves the stage. That is what I’m expecting for Vegeta too in the next episode. They are all accomplishing feats above their standard limits.

Well, the theme of the arc as a whole has been breaking one's limits.

Everyone's done so to some degree, whether it be through training beforehand or pushing themselves to become better in the heat of battle.