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I'M STILL WAITING FOR EL HERMANO AND EL GRANDE PADRE TO ARRIVE THEN WE CAN SEE GOHAN BLANCOPerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:GOHAN BLANCO IS STRONGEST THERE IS!TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:Gohan battling Toppo is a great match-up between two SSB tier warriors - finally we'll see GOAThan absolutely body that oversized Pride Trooper!
ps 17 looks to be Blue tier as well, I wouldn't sleep on him...
ToshioWrites wrote:I know we haven't seen Jiren at full power but I still find it hard to believe Vegito in Blue wouldn't be on his level if not far beyond. I mean look at how strong Kefla and Aniraza were and they were composed of fighters far inferior to Goku and Vegeta. At the very least I think Vegito would be on par with Gods of Destruction
We already had some great Blanco quotes from episode 120, which foreshadow his ascension.TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:I'M STILL WAITING FOR EL HERMANO AND EL GRANDE PADRE TO ARRIVE THEN WE CAN SEE GOHAN BLANCOPerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:GOHAN BLANCO IS STRONGEST THERE IS!TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:Gohan battling Toppo is a great match-up between two SSB tier warriors - finally we'll see GOAThan absolutely body that oversized Pride Trooper!
ps 17 looks to be Blue tier as well, I wouldn't sleep on him...
I hope it's not another rage boost. They should just borrow from the manga and Cell saga. Have Vegeta master SSB, but this time before Goku. FP SSB can be his thing for a while.TheSaiyanGod wrote: Vegeta may have simply shown a more powerful Blue to face Jiren (the justification may be his training in RoSaT). Goku himself says that it is for him to overcome his limits, so something he will show. Anger would be very predictable
There's no way Kafla would be over Vegetto. For clarification, you should probably also put the forms they're using.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
Vegeta needs to be above hit and Kefla base on the preview.Amir wrote:This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Vegeta needs to be above hit and Kefla base on the preview.Amir wrote:This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
Kafla is absolutely stronger than Vegetto. Just because her parts are weaker, doesn't mean the sum isn't stronger. Kale and Caulifla just have better Potara fusion compatibility than Goku and Vegeta. Same thing with Vegetto and initial Merged Zamasu. Vegetto only started to approach Beerus' power in the manga when he was charging a Final Kamehameha, while Kafla was outright going to one-shot Ultra Instinct Goku using her attack. Ultra Instinct Goku also scared the other Gods of Destruction and fought almost evenly with Jiren, who's more powerful than them. Kafla also surpassed Goku's previous Ultra Instinct level before she and Goku even finished powering up.Amir wrote:This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
No, you are using faulty logic. The gods weren't scared of UI Goku's power they were just impressed he could use a technique that even gods have a hard time using. And they never even saw SSB Vegito so for all we know the gods may of freaked out seeing him, we don't know. Kaioken SSB Goku was pretty close to ssj Kefla, so if you think ssj2 Kefla is above SSB Vegito, you are pretty much saying the ssj2 multileir for Kefla is more than Goku and Vegeta's fusion multiplier. Kefla is at best merged Zamsu level, and she would almost definitely lose to him because of his regen.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Kafla is absolutely stronger than Vegetto. Just because her parts are weaker, doesn't mean the sum isn't stronger. Kale and Caulifla just have better Potara fusion compatibility than Goku and Vegeta. Same thing with Vegetto and initial Merged Zamasu. Vegetto only started to approach Beerus' power in the manga when he was charging a Final Kamehameha, while Kafla was outright going to one-shot Ultra Instinct Goku using her attack. Ultra Instinct Goku also scared the other Gods of Destruction and fought almost evenly with Jiren, who's more powerful than them. Kafla also surpassed Goku's previous Ultra Instinct level before she and Goku even finished powering up.Amir wrote:This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
[spoiler]Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale[/spoiler]
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
[spoiler]1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)[/spoiler]
Jiren > SS2 Kafla >= UI Goku > SSB Vegetto > Merged Zamasu
All that manga stuff is irrelevant, and you got it wrong anyways. Vegito was stated to have surpassed Beerus there.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Kafla is absolutely stronger than Vegetto. Just because her parts are weaker, doesn't mean the sum isn't stronger. Kale and Caulifla just have better Potara fusion compatibility than Goku and Vegeta. Same thing with Vegetto and initial Merged Zamasu. Vegetto only started to approach Beerus' power in the manga when he was charging a Final Kamehameha, while Kafla was outright going to one-shot Ultra Instinct Goku using her attack. Ultra Instinct Goku also scared the other Gods of Destruction and fought almost evenly with Jiren, who's more powerful than them. Kafla also surpassed Goku's previous Ultra Instinct level before she and Goku even finished powering up.Amir wrote:This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Top strongest fighters in the tournament (just based on Power Level) (also including Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu for context):
Jiren
Goku
Kafla
Vegetto
Aniraza
Merged Zamasu
Dyspo in speed
Koichiarator
Toppo
Vegeta
Freeza
Hit
Gohan
Pirina
Saonel
17
Maji Kayo
Dyspo
Kale
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
Jiren > SS2 Kafla >= UI Goku > SSB Vegetto > Merged Zamasu
Vegetto surpassed Beerus... while charging a technique that can be a 3x or up multiplier.Amir wrote:All that manga stuff is irrelevant, and you got it wrong anyways. Vegito was stated to have surpassed Beerus there.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Kafla is absolutely stronger than Vegetto. Just because her parts are weaker, doesn't mean the sum isn't stronger. Kale and Caulifla just have better Potara fusion compatibility than Goku and Vegeta. Same thing with Vegetto and initial Merged Zamasu. Vegetto only started to approach Beerus' power in the manga when he was charging a Final Kamehameha, while Kafla was outright going to one-shot Ultra Instinct Goku using her attack. Ultra Instinct Goku also scared the other Gods of Destruction and fought almost evenly with Jiren, who's more powerful than them. Kafla also surpassed Goku's previous Ultra Instinct level before she and Goku even finished powering up.Amir wrote: This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
Jiren > SS2 Kafla >= UI Goku > SSB Vegetto > Merged Zamasu
Nothing suggests potara fusions multiplier change from pair to another pair, unless you use bad writing to support your argument. You just made that up.
I think Vegetto was nerfed in favor of the plot. After all, just one final kamehameha used up all the energy the Potara had left and even so it couldn’t beat Zamas. Despite that, channeling the energy from a genkidama allowed Trunks to do the job. When Zamas started spreading, Goku implied he needed just one more senzu to take him, but it’s unclear how he would manage it though (with kaioken perhaps?). If I were to give a shot, I would say Kafla is the most well balanced fusion, despite being weaker than a serious Vegetto. She could possibly beat Zamas if her energy rivals that of a genkidama or surpass it.Amir wrote:Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
Yeah he really should.Mercenary wrote:Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Vegeta needs to be above hit and Kefla base on the preview.Amir wrote: This is so wrong in so many levels. Vegito is way stronger than Kefla, Vegito is a fusion between 2 characters that are SSJB tier, but Kale and Caulifla are only SSJ2 tier, not to mention their base forms are weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's and could even their SSJ forms are weaker, therefore, even if Kefla was SSJB, Vegito would still win. Toppo is not stronger than Vegeta based on what we saw, Goku had the upper hand against him in Blue even though Toppo wasn't powered up, Goku also wasn't powered up. But it's safe to assume a powered up Toppo can match a full power SSJB, however, no way he can double his strength just by powering up, Toppo doesn't have kaioken. Toppo was still trying agaisnt Goku, so Toppo is not Blue Kaioken level. Vegeta is stronger than Blue Goku which puts him above Toppo (based on the preview). Frieza is equal to SSJB which puts him equal to Toppo, Toppo is SSJB Goku level. Hit is above Kaioken 20x since he put up a better fight than Goku against Jiren, he is basically SSJB level of power + hax that carries him forth.
Vegito is stronger than UI Goku and Jiren based on what he has done so far, but Jiren has not yet shown his full power so we can't judge yet. Anyways, UI's attacks barely hurt SSJ2 Kefla, so they would be completely nothing againt SSJB Vegito. Kefla's attacks would have defeated UI Goku had Goku not dodged them, and they almost hit him too. UI has the reaction time advantage, but that's it. Merged Zamasu was a bit weaker than Vegito Blue, but still way strogner than Kefla.
Merged Zamasu suffered from too much bad writing so I have no idea where to put him on the list, we know Jiren is stronger since Shin stated it, but he kept up with Blue Vegito, so logically he should be strogner than UI and even Jiren if we use the same OP multiplier the potara had with Kefla. But then again he was overpowered by a damaged SSJB Goku who couldn't even stand up to Goku Black.
This is how it should be:
1. Jiren (full power)
2. Vegito Blue (If Kale and Caulifla fused could rival UI's power, then Vegito Blue would be way above that)
3. Jiren (what he has shown so far)
4. UI Goku (Faster than Kefla with better reaction time too and more powerful than SSJB probably)
5. Kefla (strogner than the Genki Dama Goku used and power relative to UI Goku).
6. Hit (SSJB level with great time manipulation hax)
7. Vegeta ( Vegeta's Blue form is stronger than Goku's based on logic and the NEP)
8. Frieza = Toppo (both are more or less full power SSJB level)
9. Android 17 (forced Goku go Blue)
10. Dyspo/Gohan (Dyspo is obviously faster but not sure at all if stronger and more durable)
He totally should be.
He just powered up. We don't even know it's his full power. This is a very wishful thinking.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Vegetto surpassed Beerus... while charging a technique that can be a 3x or up multiplier.Amir wrote:All that manga stuff is irrelevant, and you got it wrong anyways. Vegito was stated to have surpassed Beerus there.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
Kafla is absolutely stronger than Vegetto. Just because her parts are weaker, doesn't mean the sum isn't stronger. Kale and Caulifla just have better Potara fusion compatibility than Goku and Vegeta. Same thing with Vegetto and initial Merged Zamasu. Vegetto only started to approach Beerus' power in the manga when he was charging a Final Kamehameha, while Kafla was outright going to one-shot Ultra Instinct Goku using her attack. Ultra Instinct Goku also scared the other Gods of Destruction and fought almost evenly with Jiren, who's more powerful than them. Kafla also surpassed Goku's previous Ultra Instinct level before she and Goku even finished powering up.
Jiren > SS2 Kafla >= UI Goku > SSB Vegetto > Merged Zamasu
Nothing suggests potara fusions multiplier change from pair to another pair, unless you use bad writing to support your argument. You just made that up.
Elder Kaioshin said that Goku and Vegeta's fusion would be stronger because they're rivals. Beerus also said that 17 and 18's fusion would be stronger because they're twins. Potara Fusion totally fluctuates in strength based on the relationship of the fusees.
Kale is not SS2 tier, she is between SS3 and SSG.Amir wrote:He just powered up. We don't even know it's his full power. This is a very wishful thinking.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Vegetto surpassed Beerus... while charging a technique that can be a 3x or up multiplier.Amir wrote: All that manga stuff is irrelevant, and you got it wrong anyways. Vegito was stated to have surpassed Beerus there.
Nothing suggests potara fusions multiplier change from pair to another pair, unless you use bad writing to support your argument. You just made that up.
Elder Kaioshin said that Goku and Vegeta's fusion would be stronger because they're rivals. Beerus also said that 17 and 18's fusion would be stronger because they're twins. Potara Fusion totally fluctuates in strength based on the relationship of the fusees.
It doesn't change it that drastically though. You do realize how absurd it is to have 2 SSJ2 tier characters fused stronger than 2 SSB tier characters fused? If relationship was really such a major factor with Kefla, they would have stated it. However, there was no mention of Kefla's fusion to be so powerful because of some special reason, it was just a potara fusion. And how can Kefla be stronger than Vegito at SSJ2 if her SSJ form was on par with a tired Blue Kaioken Goku? That would make her SSJ2 multiplier higher than Vegito's potata multiplier. Everything you say doesn't make sense.
1. Still weaker than SSJB Goku and Vegeta by a lot. So my point still stands.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Kale is not SS2 tier, she is between SS3 and SSG.Amir wrote:He just powered up. We don't even know it's his full power. This is a very wishful thinking.PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
Vegetto surpassed Beerus... while charging a technique that can be a 3x or up multiplier.
Elder Kaioshin said that Goku and Vegeta's fusion would be stronger because they're rivals. Beerus also said that 17 and 18's fusion would be stronger because they're twins. Potara Fusion totally fluctuates in strength based on the relationship of the fusees.
It doesn't change it that drastically though. You do realize how absurd it is to have 2 SSJ2 tier characters fused stronger than 2 SSB tier characters fused? If relationship was really such a major factor with Kefla, they would have stated it. However, there was no mention of Kefla's fusion to be so powerful because of some special reason, it was just a potara fusion. And how can Kefla be stronger than Vegito at SSJ2 if her SSJ form was on par with a tired Blue Kaioken Goku? That would make her SSJ2 multiplier higher than Vegito's potata multiplier. Everything you say doesn't make sense.
Kafla's full power in SS1 was around as strong as the Spirit Bomb Goku threw at Jiren, which was stronger than SSB KKx20 Goku. Her Super Saiyan 2, even if it's only a 2x multiplier over SS1 (unlikely given Kale's influence) would still be more than 40 times stronger than SSB Goku.
