"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Shuby]

And people call Toriyama a good story writer.

I haven't agreed with everything he's done lately but to me the original is a masterpiece and it has gone beyond just being a good story to becoming an influence that other mangaka follow so that's more than enough to qualify him as a great writer.

Even then I would just call him an average writer back in his prime. His writing went downhill for me after Namek.

I assume most people here only watch dragon ball and think it's a good written story

[Soppa Saia People]

When you can't come up with good arguments just say well it's subjective or call me shit the amount of apologists this series has is beyond me

SSj4 looked logical and had a logical transformation , a reason behind it.

It's a fact that most z-cast fighters are irrelevant when it comes to fighting , proven with the fact that Piccolo and Krillin were doing irrelvant things in the latest ep.

lazy transformation is subjective?

So recolloring the hair or skin(golden frieza) or a frieza lookalike (frost) is absolutely genuinely new

Defend further apologists

Oh jesus, where's Mike when you need him ?

[HybridSaiyan]

Nonstop action with no character development.

What character development are you talking about ? Super's characters haven't changed one bit since the 1st episode.

Vegeta changed a bit I guess but that's about it.

I still don't see the reason why they changed Gohan's design in Super in the RoF arc. Reverting him back to a bowl-cut, only to have his original design the arc later. lol

[sintzu]

I guess if you watch a lot of other animes other then just dragon ball you know what i mean

I definitely agree with what you're saying but for me, the work he did on the original and how it paved the way for my 2nd and 3rd favorite manga, One Piece and Naruto and other manga is enough for me to say he's a great writer even though I don't completely agree with what he's been doing lately.

It's like Frank Miller, no matter how many bad stories he writes, he'll always be looked at as a legend because of how great the dark knight returns is.

[Overlord78]

Nonstop action with no character development.

What character development are you talking about ? Super's characters haven't changed one bit since the 1st episode.

Vegeta changed a bit I guess but that's about it.

I still don't see the reason why they changed Gohan's design in Super in the RoF arc. Reverting him back to a bowl-cut, only to have his original design the arc later. lol

ROF in general was just pointless since nobody has learned anything from that movie/ arc. It never should have existed in my opinion and going from BOG to the universe 6 tournament would have been far better.

[ryou766]

Shuby, I can see where you're coming from. Especially with SS4 ultimately being superior to SSG (trust me, I do, man). But, me personally, I always keep my expectations low when it comes to Toriyama. Not even Z could qualify as good writing unlike the original DB.

[Luso Saiyan]

There are a lot of examples to back up his point.

His point is that his preferences are law. And that's not how it works.

How about you provide counterexamples instead of just saying his statement is false.

Counter examples to what? His pretentiousness?

When you can't come up with good arguments just say well it's subjective or call me shit

Nobody called you shit. And you should be the last person to complain about lack of good arguments. Try come up with one first.

the amount of apologists this series has is beyond me

It's beyond you that people like stuff that you don't? As opposed to what? Wasting their time ranting about stuff they don't like while hipocritically watching that very stuff every week?

[kbrooksgohan]

I think I figured it out. Black is the older Kaioshin or at least connected to him. In the preview it looked like he had green earrings. I think Zamasu found out what he was going to do and was killed. And he framed Zamasu to make it look like he's the villain.

[Neon Z]

When you can't come up with good arguments just say well it's subjective or call me shit the amount of apologists this series has is beyond me

SSj4 looked logical and had a logical transformation , a reason behind it.

The name "SSJ4" made no sense since it wasn't a further progression of the SSJ states. The red and black fur, rather than just brown fur or gold fur also came out of nowhere. And the same with its magical pant summoning ability. I mean, it's not like cloth summoning doesn't exist in Dragonball, but transformations that summon outfits aren't really DB's style.

It's a fact that most z-cast fighters are irrelevant when it comes to fighting , proven with the fact that Piccolo and Krillin were doing irrelvant things in the latest ep.

And yet Trunks seems to be getting some build up and importance. And in spite of being a complete weakling Mai is too.

lazy transformation is subjective?

So recolloring the hair or skin(golden frieza) or a frieza lookalike (frost) is absolutely genuinely new

Defend further apologists

Golden Freeza has various design tweaks compared to final form Freeza. It's basically a SSJ2 type progression + a recolor, not just a recolor. SSJB is just a recolor, but considering how it even took months to get referenced in the show by an actual name, rather than just "Super Saiyan with God Ki", I think it's acceptable for what it is. Frost was just a minor fighter among several others. It's not like he was taking Hit's role as the main rival in the tournament.

I assume most people here only watch dragon ball and think it's a good written story

Dragonball's story isn't that good, but the series is generally written in a way that it's entertaining in spite of that. None of the characters have elaborate or complex backstories or motivations, but all that generally works in its favors, since unlike its modern successors, it doesn't try to sell the reader stupid flashback arcs and chapters in an attempt to be profound or touching while generally doing a mediocre at best job at it. For example, the Universe 6 fighters generally were pretty simple characters, but I don't think taking the route of a Naruto or Bleach, where every single character would get a bunch of flashback episodes even if they're about to leave the series and become completely irrelevant, would be an improvement. In fact, it'd just drag the series down, even if it'd add something to them.

That said, if you asked me about my favorite model, I guess it'd be actually Gintama. The characters can have melodramatic backstories and there's a lot of build up and foreshadowing, but at the same time it rarely wastes entire chapters on flashbacks, giving most of them as quick exposition and the few flashback chapters have been about a couple of core characters rather than random nobodies. The story arcs also are generally fairly short, without extending too much, and, before the series got in these final chapters, most story arcs were standalone, without being centered on villains that couldn't be touched for hundreds of chapters (even if there were some in the background) which just diminishes the current threat.

[Shuby]

There are a lot of examples to back up his point.

His point is that his preferences are law. And that's not how it works.

How about you provide counterexamples instead of just saying his statement is false.

Counter examples to what? His pretentiousness?

Counterexamples please?

When you can't come up with good arguments just say well it's subjective or call me shit

Nobody called you shit. And you should be the last person to complain about lack of good arguments. Try come up with one first.

Did you read below my first comment?

the amount of apologists this series has is beyond me

It's beyond you that people like stuff that you don't? As opposed to what? Wasting their time ranting about stuff they don't like while hipocritically watching that very stuff every week?

I never said do not like this series , i just pointed out it's major flaws and people defended that

[ArchedThunder]

I think I figured it out. Black is the older Kaioshin or at least connected to him. In the preview it looked like he had green earrings. I think Zamasu found out what he was going to do and was killed. And he framed Zamasu to make it look like he's the villain.

Just checked, you are right, he has green.

[Neon Z]

I think I figured it out. Black is the older Kaioshin or at least connected to him. In the preview it looked like he had green earrings. I think Zamasu found out what he was going to do and was killed. And he framed Zamasu to make it look like he's the villain.

That doesn't make sense with Black's attitude of "the gods don't want to do it, so I will!" though. Zamasu being a Kaioshin in training could explain why he doesn't consider himself a god.

[Shuby]

When you can't come up with good arguments just say well it's subjective or call me shit the amount of apologists this series has is beyond me

SSj4 looked logical and had a logical transformation , a reason behind it.

The name "SSJ4" made no sense since it wasn't a further progression of the SSJ states. The red and black fur, rather than just brown fur or gold fur also came out of nowhere. And the same with its magical pant summoning ability. I mean, it's not like cloth summoning doesn't exist in Dragonball, but transformations that summon outfits aren't really DB's style.

Yet you say the story is simple it does not have any complexity or dept and it works so why name it something else when "ssj4" is just easy to say

characters holding hands magically producing god ki/transformation makes much more sense , the idea behind it was that after the great ape you transformed and it had a logical explanation behind it way it did.

It's a fact that most z-cast fighters are irrelevant when it comes to fighting , proven with the fact that Piccolo and Krillin were doing irrelvant things in the latest ep.

And yet Trunks seems to be getting some build up and importance. And in spite of being a complete weakling Mai is too.

Trunks is getting some build up because the plot demands it , and we know that he won't be around forever soo what about the remaining characters? Goten and trunks?

lazy transformation is subjective?

So recolloring the hair or skin(golden frieza) or a frieza lookalike (frost) is absolutely genuinely new

Defend further apologists

Golden Freeza has various design tweaks compared to final form Freeza. It's basically a SSJ2 type progression + a recolor, not just a recolor. SSJB is just a recolor, but considering how it even took months to get referenced in the show by an actual name, rather than just "Super Saiyan with God Ki", I think it's acceptable for what it is. Frost was just a minor fighter among several others. It's not like he was taking Hit's role as the main rival in the tournament.

what? lol

I assume most people here only watch dragon ball and think it's a good written story

Dragonball's story isn't that good, but the series is generally written in a way that it's entertaining in spite of that. None of the characters have elaborate or complex backstories or motivations, but all that generally works in its favors, since unlike its modern successors, it doesn't try to sell the reader stupid flashback arcs and chapters in an attempt to be profound or touching while generally doing a mediocre at best job at it. For example, the Universe 6 fighters generally were pretty simple characters, but I don't think taking the route of a Naruto or Bleach, where every single character would get a bunch of flashback episodes even if they're about to leave the series and become completely irrelevant, would be an improvement. In fact, it'd just drag the series down, even if it'd add something to them.

I don't mind simplistic stories but let's go beyond that shall we? Plot holes , continuation errors , not explaining much , get the point?

[kbrooksgohan]

I think I figured it out. Black is the older Kaioshin or at least connected to him. In the preview it looked like he had green earrings. I think Zamasu found out what he was going to do and was killed. And he framed Zamasu to make it look like he's the villain.

Just checked, you are right, he has green.

Or they fused...............

[Shuby]

Shuby, I can see where you're coming from. Especially with SS4 ultimately being superior to SSG (trust me, I do, man). But, me personally, I always keep my expectations low when it comes to Toriyama. Not even Z could qualify as good writing unlike the original DB.

guess i have to do the same!

[HybridSaiyan]

There isn't any point in complaining about Supers quality now, There's no way it's gonna improve at this stage. We might as well just accept it and wait for a third movie. We won't see anything that's gonna compare to SSJ2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta.

[Soppa Saia People]

There isn't any point in complaining about Supers quality now, There's no way it's gonna improve at this stage. We might as well just accept it and wait for a third movie. We won't see anything that's gonna compare to SSJ2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta.

So we won't see anything that is worse ? No offense but out of all the fights in the series, you picked the worst one ?

[Neon Z]

Yet you say the story is simple it does not have any complexity or dept and it works so why name it something else when "ssj4" is just easy to say

Because it has little to do with SSJ2 and 3? Calling it something else wouldn't have been "complex" at all.

characters holding hands magically producing god ki/transformation makes much more sense , the idea behind it was that after the great ape you transformed and it had a logical explanation behind it way it did.

It makes as much sense as any of the other Super Saiyan transformations. Why do angry Saiyans have this inner power to become gold warriors? Why does becoming a SSJ Great Ape somehow results in it reducing to humanoid size and making it stronger than all later transformations in spite of Oozaru originally being heavily outdated by the time SSJ1 appeared? There's no "logic" to any of that, just your preference.

Trunks is getting some build up because the plot demands it , and we know that he won't be around forever soo what about the remaining characters? Goten and trunks?

The plot demands it because Trunks is pretty much in its center right now. Kid Trunks also clearly is getting some development though, the newest episode made that obvious, and according to his VA it'll eventually lead to him maturing.

what? lol

Different shoulders, the arm leg armor has different shape too. The chest has extra lines and divisions from the chest and arms, his face has defined eyebrows (although 100% also had this).

I don't mind simplistic stories but let's go beyond that shall we? Plot holes , continuation errors , not explaining much , get the point?

Dragonball never "explained" much though. People just seem to be conditioned to accept simple explanations from the original series and want something more complex now. Look at SSJ2 or SSJ3 for example, which never had proper explanations behind their origin. SSJ2 was originally Gohan's hidden power brought forth, but when Goku and Vegeta attained it, it just became a generic "super saiyan that surpasses super saiyan" with no explanation for its existence.

[nite_jay]

If they really do make a U6 movie then honestly I'd just keep the movies as my canon.

[Shuby]

Yet you say the story is simple it does not have any complexity or dept and it works so why name it something else when "ssj4" is just easy to say

Because it has little to do with SSJ2 and 3? Calling it something else wouldn't have been "complex" at all.

Yet it had to do something with the saiyans (turning into great ape with is a trait of saiyans).

characters holding hands magically producing god ki/transformation makes much more sense , the idea behind it was that after the great ape you transformed and it had a logical explanation behind it way it did.

It makes as much sense as any of the other Super Saiyan transformations. Why do angry Saiyans have this inner power to become gold warriors? Why does becoming a SSJ Great Ape somehow results in it reducing to humanoid size and making it stronger than all later transformations in spite of Oozaru originally being heavily outdated by the time SSJ1 appeared? There's no "logic" to any of that, just your preference.

It does not lol.

Trunks is getting some build up because the plot demands it , and we know that he won't be around forever soo what about the remaining characters? Goten and trunks?

The plot demands it because Trunks is pretty much in its center right now. Kid Trunks also clearly is getting some development though, the newest episode made that obvious, and according to his VA it'll eventually lead to him maturing.

Let's see how much relevance it will have once this arc is over.

what? lol

Different shoulders, the arm leg armor has different shape too. The chest has extra lines and divisions from the chest and arms, his face has defined eyebrows (although 100% also had this).

Not enough to call is something unique or consider a well though of work.

I don't mind simplistic stories but let's go beyond that shall we? Plot holes , continuation errors , not explaining much , get the point?

Dragonball never "explained" much though. People just seem to be conditioned to accept simple explanations from the original series and want something more complex now. Look at SSJ2 or SSJ3 for example, which never had proper explanations behind their origin. SSJ2 was originally Gohan's hidden power brought forth, but when Goku and Vegeta attained it, it just became a generic "super saiyan that surpasses super saiyan" with no explanation for its existence.

But it got more worse once Super started. Its not dragon ball as a whole never explained things. SSJ2 and SSJ3 not being explained has to do with how terrible the Buu saga was.