Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[KaiserNeko]

Yes, blowing up the planet is one way to technically win... but on the surface, it comes off as a petty, weak way to do it. It's cheap and underhanded, and a last resort of someone on the brink of losing. But there are technically no rules, so you can't necessarily say it isn't a legitimate victory in that regard.

However, say the arena in which this fight took place was unbreakable: Freeza thusly would have lost. Fights such as these do not take place in a vacuum, though, and all different variables must be accounted for. It was a failure on Son Goku and Vegeta's parts to stop Freeza from destroying the planet. It is also a stroke of luck that Whistler was available to undo said calamity. In that regard, Goku lost the fight, and so did Vegeta. Plain and simple. And that's okay! Because it was a learning experience.

Also: Negative opinions are fine. Uninformed/less informed opinions are also acceptable, if presented as such. "Validity" is a complicated concept and contextually dependent here.

Personally? I think the negativity here is atrocious. To equate one's uninformed opinions as equal to those with fully informed, constructed opinions is asinine. While the concept of "validity" is a complicated one, dependent on context and definition, in this regard it comes off as presumptuous belly-aching to me to have such a steadfast and decisive opinion without having experienced the actual product firsthand.

Misgivings, concerns, and discussion about material we've been presented are completely valid. But this vitriol and toxic pessimism has made this entire thread an environment that has done little to harbor rational discussion and absolutely lacks the kind of spirit we should be striving for: A hopeful, positive, constructively critical group that wants the best for one another and ourselves.

[Doctor.]

Can someone please link me to the official synopsis/spoilers of the film?

Kanzenshuu staff is still writing it.

[ShadowWolf87]

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Except he didn't. Freeza's power was draining and he was losing stamina, which is something Goku was attempting to take advantage of.

Goku still took him on at 100% and had to hold out until Freeza had been drained enough for him to go on the offensive, a very strategic move.

Exploiting a weakness doesn't mean you didn't take said enemy on at full steam man.

[Vidmusc]

Can someone please link me to the official synopsis/spoilers of the film?

Nothing "official" so to speak yet. Hopefully we'll get it soon!

[Sandubadear]

To please whiney Vegeta fans, they'll change the ending of Kai so Vegeta is the one who kills Buu.

Can someone please link me to the official synopsis/spoilers of the film?

It's not out yet.

[Birusu16]

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Except he didn't. Freeza's power was draining and he was losing stamina, which is something Goku was attempting to take advantage of.

Goku still took him on at 100% and had to hold out until Freeza had been drained enough for him to go on the offensive, a very strategic move.

Exploiting a weakness doesn't mean you didn't take said enemy on at full steam man.

Uh you realize Goku still lost despite Freeza losing stamina and power? So it's really nothing to brag about at all. He did not take him on and beat him at his full power. Neither did Vegeta. People need to stop trying to make one out to be better than the other.

[SansrivaaL]

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Vegetaism man, Vegetaism. Dragon ball has always been good so far I dont see any BIG problems that its failing as a whole, they seem to compare Goku to John Cena, that he is overrated, I dont see that tho, sure he has most of the screen time but that is to be expected, Vegeta's role as a rival is important, if he surpasses Goku I dont see any reason for his character anymore, he only pushes himself that far is bcuz of his obssesion on surpassing Goku, take that away and I dont know what would make him interesting.

[Dyno]

To please whiney Vegeta fans, they'll change the ending of Kai so Vegeta is the one who kills Buu.

You just gave me the idea... They should animate the real ending version, that would be freaking awesome, by the way.

[SansrivaaL]

Uh you realize Goku still lost despite Freeza losing stamina and power? So it's really nothing to brag about at all. He did not take him on and beat him at his full power. Neither did Vegeta. People need to stop trying to make one out to be better than the other.

U do realize that Goku while fighting Freeza is also losing stamina and power right? unless he has an unlimited supply of ki now.

[Birusu16]

Uh you realize Goku still lost despite Freeza losing stamina and power? So it's really nothing to brag about at all. He did not take him on and beat him at his full power. Neither did Vegeta. People need to stop trying to make one out to be better than the other.

U do realize that Goku while fighting Freeza is also losing stamina and power right? unless he has an unlimited supply of ki now.

Stop arguing semantics. It's been flat out said that Freeza has the same weakness that he had back on Namek, which is his power and stamina drain very quickly. Show me where Goku was ever noted to have such a weakness? Sure his power and stamina drain the longer he fights, but not at anywhere near the rate that Freeza's does. That's why it's considered a weakness for him, but not for anyone else.

[ShadowWolf87]

Except he didn't. Freeza's power was draining and he was losing stamina, which is something Goku was attempting to take advantage of.

Goku still took him on at 100% and had to hold out until Freeza had been drained enough for him to go on the offensive, a very strategic move.

Exploiting a weakness doesn't mean you didn't take said enemy on at full steam man.

Uh you realize Goku still lost despite Freeza losing stamina and power? So it's really nothing to brag about at all. He did not take him on and beat him at his full power. Neither did Vegeta. People need to stop trying to make one out to be better than the other.

Goku lost because Sorbet interfered. Without that, Goku would have won.

I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring that or just aren't processing it.

[dbzfan7]

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Except he didn't. Freeza's power was draining and he was losing stamina, which is something Goku was attempting to take advantage of.

Oh cool I missed the scene where they gave Freeza a Senzu to fight Vegeta at 100% like when he fought Goku.

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Vegetaism man, Vegetaism. Dragon ball has always been good so far I dont see any BIG problems that its failing as a whole, they seem to compare Goku to John Cena, that he is overrated, I dont see that tho, sure he has most of the screen time but that is to be expected, Vegeta's role as a rival is important, if he surpasses Goku I dont see any reason for his character anymore, he only pushes himself that far is bcuz of his obssesion on surpassing Goku, take that away and I dont know what would make him interesting.

Exactly. What the hell is Vegeta gonna do if he were always better than Goku. His entire character motivation would be gone. It's pretty much what he lives for. He'd be just like Cell. Once he absorbed the Cyborgs, he looked awesome, but became boring. He reached his goal, and then kinda just messed around after that.

[Birusu16]

[quote="ShadowWolf87"]

And it was also stated that Goku had to take advantage of Freeza losing stamina and power in order to do that. You seem to be willfully ignoring that. The fact is that Goku nor Vegeta were beating Freeza at his full power. Freeza's power and stamina were draining in his fight with Goku and he was weakened in his fight with Vegeta.

[EA575]

if the blue Saiyan form is a SSJ version of SSJG, then it makes sense that the initial form (SSJG) kept Goku's hair the same. It seems like another happy accident Toriyama made when first creating SSJG: keep the hair the same for SSJG and then changing it for Ascended SSJG. It's as if the God forms are separate levels and not extensions of the traditional SSJ forms. And for Goku and Vegeta to achieve, or reveal, Ascended SSJG (SSJ SSJG?) during their fight with Freeza, it creates another parallel to the Freeza arc.

I think they should retroactively change the title of SSJG into something simpler to avoid confusion.

[Birusu16]

Goku lost because Sorbet interfered. Without that, Goku would have won.

I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring that or just aren't processing it.

And it was also stated that Goku had to take advantage of Freeza losing stamina and power in order to do that. You seem to be willfully ignoring that. The fact is that Goku nor Vegeta were beating Freeza at his full power. Freeza's power and stamina were draining in his fight with Goku and he was weakened in his fight with Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

if the blue Saiyan form is a SSJ version of SSJG, then it makes sense that the initial form (SSJG) kept Goku's hair the same. It seems like another happy accident Toriyama made when first creating SSJG: keep the hair the same for SSJG and then changing it for Ascended SSJG. It's as if the God forms are separate levels and not extensions of the traditional SSJ forms. And for Goku and Vegeta to achieve, or reveal, Ascended SSJG (SSJ SSJG?) during their fight with Freeza, it creates another parallel to the Freeza arc.

I'm being reminded of Dragon Ball New Age where Rigor's SSJ4 became his base state in power. So he just looked like a normal saiyan, but had the power of SSJ4. Then he had one transformation to go beyond to SSJ5. Here we have God and now the base state essentially be the new god state, and now there's a state beyond it.

[ShadowWolf87]

And it was also stated that Goku had to take advantage of Freeza losing stamina and power in order to do that. You seem to be willfully ignoring that. The fact is that Goku nor Vegeta were beating Freeza at his full power. Freeza's power and stamina were draining in his fight with Goku and he was weakened in his fight with Vegeta.

...literally EVERYONE'S stamina drains when they fight. It's the problem Goku had when fighting Buu; SSJ3 burned through his stamina far too quickly. You gonna argue Buu never fought Goku at 100%?

Heck, the moment you get a good hit in on someone they're not at 100%. Literally any transformation would thus mean the Saiyans never fought at 100%.

Are you seeing the problem with this logic yet?

[GoldLiger]

if the blue Saiyan form is a SSJ version of SSJG, then it makes sense that the initial form (SSJG) kept Goku's hair the same. It seems like another happy accident Toriyama made when first creating SSJG: keep the hair the same for SSJG and then changing it for Ascended SSJG. It's as if the God forms are separate levels and not extensions of the traditional SSJ forms. And for Goku and Vegeta to achieve, or reveal, Ascended SSJG (SSJ SSJG?) during their fight with Freeza, it creates another parallel to the Freeza arc.

I think they should retroactively change the title of SSJG into something simpler to avoid confusion.

The blue hair SS is just SS using God Ki as source of power instead of the normal mortal ki.

[Birusu16]

He picked off a weakened Freeza anyways...compared to Goku who took him on a 100%.

I also don't hate Vegeta. I only turned against him because so many people we're all "Goku's time is up, Vegeta's time is now now, You can see him, Vegeta's time is now now. It's the franchise giving Vegeta his time now, you can see him, it's Vegeta's time now now."

After that I dreaded the prospect so people would stop being so smug and and proclaiming this is like the best thing for Dragon Ball. Like this would somehow make Dragon Ball a hell of a lot better. Seriously when has the rival ever had full top billing over the main character in a film?

Except he didn't. Freeza's power was draining and he was losing stamina, which is something Goku was attempting to take advantage of.

Oh cool I missed the scene where they gave Freeza a Senzu to fight Vegeta at 100% like when he fought Goku.

And his power and stamina continuously drained in his fight with Goku. Hardly something to be proud of. Goku didn't in anyway defeat him at full power.

[KaiserNeko]

And it was also stated that Goku had to take advantage of Freeza losing stamina and power in order to do that. You seem to be willfully ignoring that. The fact is that Goku nor Vegeta were beating Freeza at his full power. Freeza's power and stamina were draining in his fight with Goku and he was weakened in his fight with Vegeta.

...literally EVERYONE'S stamina drains when they fight. It's the problem Goku had when fighting Buu; SSJ3 burned through his stamina far too quickly. You gonna argue Buu never fought Goku at 100%?

Heck, the moment you get a good hit in on someone they're not at 100%. Literally any transformation would thus mean the Saiyans never fought at 100%.

Are you seeing the problem with this logic yet?

If Freeza was fully aware of that drawback of his power, then it's 100% a fair fight. Even if Freeza is losing his power over time, he knew that fault beginning the battle, and Son Goku tried to use it to his advantage.

If Sorbet, in fact, is interfered with the fight, then that's a compromise on Freeza's behalf. Son Goku was going to win fair and square before that happened.

And his power and stamina continuously drained in his fight with Goku. Hardly something to be proud of. Goku didn't in anyway defeat him at full power.

Who cares? That's not the point of a fight. Defeating an opponent is all about taking them as them come, not in some imaginary scenario where Freeza could have kept his power at 100%. Yes, if Freeza was able to keep that strength up to the very beginning, Son Goku likely would have lost. But the decision Freeza made to use that form (the only form which, by the way, Freeza would have had any chance at all of defeating either Son Goku or Vegeta with) is what lead to his near defeat, and his compromise not just once with Sorbet getting involved, but his trump card of just eliminating the planet completely.