Unpopular DB opinions

[Kid Buu]

I actually dislike #17 and #18. They have cool design but they are so dull. They beat up the heroes, then go driving for a couple of chapters until Cell absorbs them. Lame.

[RandomGuy96]

I actually dislike #17 and #18. They have cool design but they are so dull. They beat up the heroes, then go driving for a couple of chapters until Cell absorbs them. Lame.

I don't like them either. I don't even like their designs, and am glad that Toriyama removed them.

You know, this topic does come up quite a bit, and for some reason, both sides get really passionate about it. I can understand fans of Yamucha being passionate because, well, we like him and don't appreciate the fact that his character was mangled so horrendously in later parts of the series. Don't really get why people who don't like him are so passionate about the subject, but, eh, whatever. But it is so passionate that nothing ever really gets accomplished. So I'm not even going to bother to try and catch up on all the walls of quotes that have transpired while I was at work.

However, I do have to say that this quote says a lot. While you obviously don't like Yamucha (and that's okay; there are a lot of points in the story where I don't like Vegeta, for example), it seems you are basing your opinions of him on an incomplete knowledge of him. You seem to know beginning of DB and DBZ with very little in between. And, honestly, in the span you seem to be missing... he's nothing but the dogged nice guy. He's given moments where he's responsible, generous, proactive, self-sacrificing, self-motivated, the voice of reason, the leader of the entire group. To be honest, he becomes more than a little bland (in my web series, I compare him to Fred from Scooby-Doo if that tells you anything), but he's a genuinely good person. But all you seem to see is the guy who was once a villain (like everyone else) who later gets blown up. And I think that's where our disconnect is coming from. If you did "know a lot about that" you might be able to understand how it seems so insultingly out of character to suddenly and out of nowhere make him a cheater for the sole purpose of pushing a Blooma/Vegeta pairing.

This quote is from way back when (well, a few pages), but I didn't see it, so I may as well respond now:

Yeah, I don't like him. But I don't dislike him. Like I said, he's too bland for me to really feel anything about him. The sole exception is when he's being mocked, because I've seen a lot of genuinely funny jokes come from that. You have to admit, with the way he's treated all throughout the post-Raditz portions (which is all a lot of people care about), he's very easy to mock. He got killed by a generic mook after arrogantly claiming he could take on five of those mooks at once, lost his girlfriend because of his adulterous behavior, had his girlfriend stolen by the guy who ordered his death, get one-shotted immediately at the beginning of the next arc, got a job and got fired later according to Toriyama, got eaten by Buu, and never did anything notable there. Even Toriyama doesn't seem to like him. He makes him seem even more pathetic in interviews, and used him as a punching bag to be laughed at in the 23rd Budokai and Saiyan arcs. By comparison, Krillin and Ten were at least given SOME dignity in those two arcs, with Krillin playing a prominent role in the latter.

I've admitted that I only watched the Pilaf and RRA arcs waaaaaaay back when, and hardly remember anything about them, and don't even care about remembering them or watching them again because I simply think they're boring. Or at least I think I did; if not, I'm doing that now.

Fred? Okay, that's too harsh, even for Yamcha...

I do know of his general character in those arcs at least, and I do consider that plot development out of nowhere. I do believe that'e one of the many things I list whenever bitching about the Cell arc, which is a lot. But that wasn't what I was talking about; I was talking about the tendency of some, such as Murasaki, to just try to dismiss what the author says because it doesn't fit their view of the series. That's what bothers me. If it happened, it happened. Complain about if you want, but don't deny it.

[TheGmGoken]

I actually dislike #17 and #18. They have cool design but they are so dull. They beat up the heroes, then go driving for a couple of chapters until Cell absorbs them. Lame.

Yea the movie villains had more plot than 17 and 18. I would had preferred Gero and Cell to be the main villains. Least they had character.

[Kid Buu]

What did Krillin do in the 23rd Budokai that was better than Yamcha?

[RandomGuy96]

What did Krillin do in the 23rd Budokai that was better than Yamcha?

His fight with Piccolo was IMO more dignified than Yamcha's fight with Kami.

[Kid Buu]

I actually prefer Yamcha's fight there. Although you could mention that Tenshinhan and Kuririn get stuff to do in the Cell arc, while Yamcha just babysits Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

I actually prefer Yamcha's fight there. Although you could mention that Tenshinhan and Kuririn get stuff to do in the Cell arc, while Yamcha just babysits Goku.

Well, Krillin in that arc gets into the negatives, whereas Yamcha at least recognizes his uselessness and sits this arc out. Though I guess he too enters the negatives (with Ten resetting to zero) when he shows up at the Cell Games, and they have to waste a senzu on his useless ass.

It's not about preference, it's about dignity. Both only land one hit on their opponent and are complimented for it, but not only is Piccolo stronger than Kami, but his praise of Krillin is arguably much better than Kami's praise of Yamcha, and Krillin gets to bow out rather than be utterly humiliated like Yamcha was when he was hit where his nards would be and smashed out of the ring.

[Kid Buu]

You know, I'm starting to wonder why Toriyama just didn't retire Yamcha after 23rd Budokai and just make his baseball career a full-fleshed idea.

[ABED]

I actually prefer Yamcha's fight there. Although you could mention that Tenshinhan and Kuririn get stuff to do in the Cell arc, while Yamcha just babysits Goku.

Well, Krillin in that arc gets into the negatives, whereas Yamcha at least recognizes his uselessness and sits this arc out. Though I guess he too enters the negatives (with Ten resetting to zero) when he shows up at the Cell Games, and they have to waste a senzu on his useless ass.

It's not about preference, it's about dignity. Both only land one hit on their opponent and are complimented for it, but not only is Piccolo stronger than Kami, but his praise of Krillin is arguably much better than Kami's praise of Yamcha, and Krillin gets to bow out rather than be utterly humiliated like Yamcha was when he was hit where his nards would be and smashed out of the ring.

I don't think it's just the one hit. Kuririn showed some new techniques, including learning how to fly.

[Ninja Murasaki]

You've failed to provide a reason that makes it possible

Actually if you checked it was a secondhand.

We know how Yamcha acts around women, he can barely be around them at all. The talk with Toriyama said he could barely date at all or hold a job around women. How would he able to do multiple women with such an impediment, you haven't provided an answer

The only reason you're clinging to it is an excuse to bash other fans for liking him. You burst into the topic to jump on people for having a positive opinion on Yamcha, warp his actions in the story to make him look bad while whitewashing people who did worse, and continually insult him and fans while doing it.

Information from the author that was never contradicted.

Actually its an account Furuya remniniscing over how he rembered dismissing his question. Its very much second hand.

I already explained how it was the interview contradicts it.

Yeah, sure. I'm just not going to take anything from them seriously, especially if you're using the translations I think that you are.

Licensed translations frequently censor or make mistakes. I'm sure those mistakes is why you referred to Puar in one of your earlier posts.

And if Yamcha was really as murderous as you claim, he would've shot or stabbed Goku with his gun or sword 9 when he encountered Goku sleeping in chapter 9. Instead Yamcha just simply moves him to where what he thinks is Bulma won't see him.

Not killing an enemy at his mercy, I guess that makes him totally a hardened killer.

Doesn't excuse the pathetically low offensive power of his Kamehameha.

Opinion and mudslinging.

Yeah, bullshit. Krillin doesn't get rage boosts. I believe it only gets named in the video games, right? The video games name everything. Even if it named, it's still just a bunch of regular energy blasts, and each of them have waaaaay more destructive power than Yamcha's Kamehameha. That makes Yamcha's Kamehameha pretty lame.

Citation needed.

Were shown many of the main characters get stronger with rage. Think about how many times, any of the protagonists have gotten angry, and totally pulverized their foe because of it.

The name is given out in the guides I believe. Its hardly just a bunch of KI energy, it was a powerful technique invented by Krillin.

Besides Krillin's aforementioned rage, he's typically been stronger at most points in the series.

He just barley beat one and said he could take all four at once. Then that one killed him because he was arrogant.

Once again, you're exaggerating to make him look bad. Yamcha was very much above the saibaman in pure combat, it even says so in the guides that Yamcha is higher the saibamen.

I'll give you he had his back turned, but again, everyone except Vegeta and Nappa thought it was dead, and other characters have done more arrogant things without being obsessively bashed.

Playing around? I don't see that in the Strength Checker, just that Vegeta was pissed that the Saibaman was so weak compared to Ten, which shocked Nappa.

Vegeta outright says it wasn't taking the battle seriously, then killed it to motivate the other saibamen.

He drew a weakened Goku, did he not?

When Yamcha was charging his attack, Goku ran out of energy, was panting, and says "I can't go on." Oolong even says now we're in for it. The narrator calls Yamcha a fearsomely powerful foe afterwards.

It's a matter of importance. Yamcha beating someone at the Budokai isn't impressive because everyone can do that. Killing a dinosaur is super impressive by that point because of how weak the heroes are in comparison.

Then Yamcha casually beating Chi-Chi in a single blow without breaking a sweat must be impressive then.

If Yamcha beating Chi Chi and the rabbit gang members counts as a victory, so does Krillin beating Pintar.

I never said Krillin beating pintar didn't count

I don't give a shit if you like Yamcha. I do, however, care if you try to disregard what the author says, make shit up (Krillin being strengthened by rage), or outright lie ("Toriyama directly contradicted Yamcha being a cheater") to defend him.

Complete Bull-shit

You came in here to whine about people saying positive things about Yamcha and to go out of your way to demonize him.

[i'mfuckingevil]

SSJ3 Goku is more powerful than mystic Gohan during the Buu saga

[RandomGuy96]

Actually if you checked it was a secondhand.

We know how Yamcha acts around women, he can barely be around them at all. The talk with Toriyama said he could barely date at all or hold a job around women. How would he able to do multiple women with such an impediment, you haven't provided an answer

I don't need to. You're the one who needs to prove that it is absolutely 100% impossible. He can simply accept an offer to screw, he's presuambly not unable to do that. Stop jumping to conclusions and outright lying just to defend Yamcha.

Actually its an account Furuya remniniscing over how he rembered dismissing his question. Its very much second hand.

I already explained how it was the interview contradicts it.

What are you trying to say? Furuya lied? He's part of the conspiracy to bash Yamcha?

No, all you've done is offer your opinion on how someone with those characteristics should act. Still doesn't override the author himself stating otherwise.

Licensed translations frequently censor or make mistakes. I'm sure those mistakes is why you referred to Puar in one of your earlier posts.

And if Yamcha was really as murderous as you claim, he would've shot or stabbed Goku with his gun or sword 9 when he encountered Goku sleeping in chapter 9. Instead Yamcha just simply moves him to where what he thinks is Bulma won't see him.

Not killing an enemy at his mercy, I guess that makes him totally a hardened killer.

Get an official/legitimate translation or get out.

Opinion and mudslinging.

In this series, catching an opponent off guard guarantees a whole lot of damage- this is shown many times. The Kamehameha is also shown to be a very powerful technique- when Goku used it, his battle power jumped from 416 to 924. When he used it in the Cell arc, he was able to blow apart Cell, who was stronger than him.

Yamcha was 1,480 to the Saibaman's 1,200. He was already way stronger than it. Yet his Kamehameha fails to put the thing down or even severely injure it, despite being a Kamehameha and him hitting the thing off guard.

So nope. Not an opinion. Krillin fires an attack with way over six times as much strength right after that, and he wasn't much stronger than Yamcha.

Citation needed.

Bullshit. You're the one who claimed Krillin got a rage boost when nothing of the sort was mentioned. You're the one who has to prove this.

Were shown many of the main characters get stronger with rage. Think about how many times, any of the protagonists have gotten angry, and totally pulverized their foe because of it.

By "many", you mean "two", right? No one but Gohan and Buu raise their powers with rage.

The name is given out in the guides I believe. Its hardly just a bunch of KI energy, it was a powerful technique invented by Krillin.

The guides also name everything. Was there any indication in the manga that it was anything other than a bunch of generic ki blasts?

Besides Krillin's aforementioned rage, he's typically been stronger at most points in the series.

And he's stronger here. Yet the power difference he had over Yamcha totally doesn't justify Yamcha's OFF GUARD Kamehameha failing to kill a Saibaman while Krillin's generic ki blasts could kill three of them that were on guard.

Once again, you're exaggerating to make him look bad. Yamcha was very much above the saibaman in pure combat, it even says so in the guides that Yamcha is higher the saibamen.

When did I say he was weaker than a Saibaman?

I'll give you he had his back turned, but again, everyone except Vegeta and Nappa thought it was dead, and other characters have done more arrogant things without being obsessively bashed.

I'm talking more about him declaring that he could take all of four of them when he almost certainly couldn't, considering that one was able to go toe to toe with him and sustained no damage from his Kamehameha.

Vegeta outright says it wasn't taking the battle seriously, then killed it to motivate the other saibamen.

Do your fan translations say that?

When Yamcha was charging his attack, Goku ran out of energy, was panting, and says "I can't go on." Oolong even says now we're in for it. The narrator calls Yamcha a fearsomely powerful foe afterwards.

You didn't answer the question.

Then Yamcha casually beating Chi-Chi in a single blow without breaking a sweat must be impressive then.

You're really trying to push Yamcha beating a little girl who probably didn't even have super powers at this point as a real victory? Okay, fine, let's go ahead and count that- that's still the only victory he ever got alone, aside from Budokai fodder, which doesn't really count (plus, Chi Chi did the same).

I never said Krillin beating pintar didn't count

Wait, you actually count that? Why?

Complete Bull-shit

You came in here to hine about people saying postiive things about Yamcha and to goout of your way to demonize him.

What is hine? How does one hine? What's a goout? What does does postiive mean? Is it a type of food?

I don't care if you like Yamcha. I DO care if you try to make him look better than he is by lying, exaggerating, or making shit up.

Bullshit is also one word, genius.

[Ninja Murasaki]

I don't need to. You're the one who needs to prove that it is absolutely 100% impossible. He can simply accept an offer to screw, he's presuambly not unable to do that. Stop jumping to conclusions and outright lying just to defend Yamcha.

You're the one jumping to conclusions, going over out of your way to bash the opinions of others in a thread for expressing opinions.

Accept an offer to screw, go to a women's house as she undresses, and do him, yeah, I don't see it.

And if you're going to play the spelling game, what does "presuambly" mean.

What are you trying to say? Furuya lied? He's part of the conspiracy to bash Yamcha?

No, all you've done is offer your opinion on how someone with those characteristics should act. Still doesn't override the author himself stating otherwise.

Furuya just remarked what he remebered the basics of Toriyama dismissing his question quite a while later. For all we know, Toriyama could've said something milder.

Still doesn't override the author himself stating otherwise.

Second hand info heavily contradicted by a newer direct interview.

Get an official/legitimate translation or get out.

Fan translations are no less legit.

You didn't even address my point disproving your claim that Yamcha is a killer.

Yamcha was 1,480 to the Saibaman's 1,200. He was already way stronger than it. Yet his Kamehameha fails to put the thing down or even severely injure it, despite being a Kamehameha and him hitting the thing off guard.

So nope. Not an opinion. Krillin fires an attack with way over six times as much strength right after that, and he wasn't much stronger than Yamcha.

The saibamen wasn't caught offguard and there's a lot of factors to consider.

By "many", you mean "two", right? No one but Gohan and Buu raise their powers with rage.

Goku's strength gets increased by rage multiple times, particularly in the movies.

The guides also name everything. Was there any indication in the manga that it was anything other than a bunch of generic ki blasts?

The Dramatic moment and Krillin's reaction indicate it was supposed to be an important move.

And he's stronger here. Yet the power difference he had over Yamcha totally doesn't justify Yamcha's OFF GUARD Kamehameha failing to kill a Saibaman while Krillin's generic ki blasts could kill three of them that were on guard.

I'm talking more about him declaring that he could take all of four of them

He didn't say he'd take them all on alone to my recollection.

Do your fan translations say that?

Official subs say that. Nice mudslinging as well.

You didn't answer the question.

Basically both their battles were equally inconclusive.

You're really trying to push Yamcha beating a little girl who probably didn't even have super powers at this point as a real victory? Okay, fine, let's go ahead and count that- that's still the only victory he ever got alone, aside from Budokai fodder, which doesn't really count (plus, Chi Chi did the same).

See you count Chi-Chi beating the dinosaur as an example she has super powers. THen when Chi-Chi tries to use the same laser attack on Yamcha, he dodges, and knocks her out. Chi-Chi is suddenly a helpless little girl. You're going totally out of your way to bash him.

The rabbit Gang.

What is hine? How does one hine? What's a goout? What does does postiive mean? Is it a type of food?

You've made plenty of spelling errors, yourself.

I don't care if you like Yamcha. I DO care if you try to make him look better than he is by lying, exaggerating, or making shit up.

You came into the thread about opinions, jump on other users for having opinions you disagreed with it, and fabricated or exaggerated to make your stance look better.

Bullshit is also one word, genius.

Both spelling works, genius.

[RandomGuy96]

You're the one jumping to conclusions, going over out of your way to bash the opinions of others in a thread for expressing opinions.

Accept an offer to screw, go to a women's house as she undresses, and do him, yeah, I don't see it.

And if you're going to play the spelling game, what does "presuambly" mean.

"I don't see it"? Too bad that doesn't actually matter. I don't believe that certain characters act... in character sometimes, but that doesn't mean I can deny what happened.

"Presumably", yes, my mistake.

Furuya just remarked what he remebered the basics of Toriyama dismissing his question quite a while later. For all we know, Toriyama could've said something milder.

For all we know, Toriyama said he cheated.

Second hand info heavily contradicted by a newer direct interview.

Author given information contradicted by nothing.

Fan translations are no less legit.

You didn't even address my point disproving your claim that Yamcha is a killer.

Actually, yeah, they are. Unless they're by Herms or someone similar. Get some actual proof or get out.

The saibamen wasn't caught offguard and there's a lot of factors to consider.

The thing had its back turned to him when he started firing the Kamehameha.

Goku's strength gets increased by rage multiple times, particularly in the movies.

Movies = irrelevant. And when has his battle power ever been explicitly shown to rise with rage?

The Dramatic moment and Krillin's reaction indicate it was supposed to be an important move.

So "no" then? Because the moment is no less dramatic if he's just firing generic ki blasts.

He didn't say he'd take them all on alone to my recollection.

Just checked and yeah, he did.

Chapter: 215 (DBZ 21), P10.4
Context: after seeming to beat the Saibaiman
Yamcha: “These monsters don’t seem as strong as you guys think. I’ll take care of the remaining 4 by myself…”

I found a manga scan where he says the same in case you doubt this.

Official subs say that. Nice mudslinging as well.

Post a scan or a quote, because Herms doesn't have it in the Strength Checker, and if it's really there that can be useful. And if the Saibaman was screwing around, why was Nappa so surprised that Ten beat it? That doesn't even make any sense.

Basically both their battles were equally inconclusive.

So then the answer is yes.

See you count Chi-Chi beating the dinosaur as an example she has super powers. THen when Chi-Chi tries to use the same laser attack on Yamcha, he dodges, and knocks her out. Chi-Chi is suddenly a helpless little girl. You're going totally out of your way to bash him.

The rabbit Gang.

When did I say she had super powers? She just had some powerful weapons.

Goku weakened them first.

You've made plenty of spelling errors, yourself.

So have you, yet generally I've kept what I've said at least comprehensible.

You came into the thread about opinions, jump on other users for having opinions you disagreed with it, and fabricated or exaggerated to make your stance look better.

Jumped on them for having opinions I disagreed with? No, I simply pointed out when they were stretching or making things up.

Both spelling works, genius.

I've never seen "bull-shit" before and the dictionary just says "bullshit".

[Ninja Murasaki]

For all we know, Toriyama said he cheated.

But we don't know it for a fact. Toriyama could've said something milder, and Furuya didn't remember his exact words because its been a long time since then. Toriyama can also change his mind on things.

Actually, yeah, they are. Unless they're by Herms or someone similar. Get some actual proof or get out.

Oh please, not this shit again

I already told you the proof and the page number.

Movies = irrelevant.

Actually Toriyama is involved with many of the movies.

So "no" then? Because the moment is no less dramatic if he's just firing generic ki blasts.

The moment was supposed to be Krillin giving it all to avenge a close friend.

Chapter: 215 (DBZ 21), P10.4
Context: after seeming to beat the Saibaiman
Yamcha: “These monsters don’t seem as strong as you guys think. I’ll take care of the remaining 4 by myself…”

I found a manga scan where he says the same in case you doubt this.

I'll give you that.

Post a scan or a quote, because Herms doesn't have it in the Strength Checker, and if it's really there that can be useful. And if the Saibaman was screwing around, why was Nappa so surprised that Ten beat it? That doesn't even make any sense.

Posting scans isn't allowed.

Nappa was surprised because all of them humans were nothing to them. Its said, they've conquered many planets with the saibaman, and only once have the saibamen really had any trouble.

When did I say she had super powers? She just had some powerful weapons.

At not point is it said that laser came specifically from her helmet.

Goku weakened them first.

Actually they had just finished attacking Goku who had been unable to fight back due to their use of Bulma as a hostage.

Jumped on them for having opinions I disagreed with? No, I simply pointed out when they were stretching or making things up.

In a thread created so fans could express their unpopular opinions, You immediately accused people of fabricating and being liars. And you yourself had no concrete evidence in addition to fabricating or exaggerating scenes .

So have you, yet generally I've kept what I've said at least comprehensible.

Not really, and now you're just mudslinging again.

[Kid Buu]

In this thread.


"I like Yamcha"


"I really do wonder if you are saying that with a straight face."


"Is there an opinion of yours that isn't terrible?!"


"Only all of them!"


"I really do wonder if you are saying that with a straight face."


"The answer is no."


"Sit boy."

Back on topic, one thing that I do think Toei is underrated in his the scenery. Toriyama kind of has some dull settings, where as Toei has some great ones. See Movie 7 and History of Trunks for reference.

[RandomGuy96]

But we don't know it for a fact. Toriyama could've said something milder, and Furuya didn't remember his exact words because its been a long time since then. Toriyama can also change his mind on things.

Even if he doesn't remember his exact wording, he shouldn't be so forgetful as to not remember a general point like that.

He can, and if Toriyama changed his mind on Yamcha cheating, that'd be one thing. But nothing indicates that he has.

Oh please, not this shit again

I already told you the proof and the page number.

Saiga posted an official translation saying that Puar expected Yamcha to kill them. You said that the official translation might have made a mistake. I'm asking you to prove it.

Actually Toriyama is involved with many of the movies.

He had minimal involvement in some, but he didn't out and out write any of them. So they don't matter, we're strictly talking about the manga here.

The moment was supposed to be Krillin giving it all to avenge a close friend.

So? That attack could simply be the best for the scenario. What else would he use? Kamehameha? Solar Flare? Kienzan?

Posting scans isn't allowed.

Nappa was surprised because all of them humans were nothing to them. Its said, they've conquered many planets with the saibaman, and only once have the saibamen really had any trouble.

Then post a quote and what translation you are using. Because that really contradicts what Nappa says right before, as well as the power gap between these foes.

No, he was surprised that Ten BEAT it and was stronger than it.

Posting scans isn't allowed? I've seen people do it all the time to prove points.

At not point is it said that laser came specifically from her helmet.

There's a little dot on the helmet that she presses right before the laser fires. That's probably where it's fired from. And where else would the blast be coming from, her forehead?

Actually they had just finished attacking Goku who had been unable to fight back due to their use of Bulma as a hostage.

Actually they'd just previously been beaten up by Goku not even two minute ago.

In a thread created so fans could express their unpopular opinions, You immediately accused people of fabricating and being liars. And you yourself had no concrete evidence in addition to fabricating or exaggerating scenes .

You HAVE actually lied, like when you said Toriyama directly contradicted Yamcha being a cheater, even though to do that he'd have to actually say "Yamcha didn't cheat".

Not really, and now you're just mudslinging again.

You have. Would you like me to comb through your posts for the errors? I count five in this post alone. "Its said", "conquered with the saibaman", "at not point", "that laser came" (should "that the laser came"), and randomly capitalizing "You" (am I God?). I usually don't mention grammar and spelling errors because I can usually tell what you mean, but that post with such words as "postiive" just bugged me in how obviously rushed and borderline incomprehensible it was.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Even if he doesn't remember his exact wording, he shouldn't be so forgetful as to not remember a general point like that.

For all we know, he could've just said "Yamcha is a flirted" or something similar.

He can, and if Toriyama changed his mind on Yamcha cheating, that'd be one thing. But nothing indicates that he has.

Except he gave a very huge contradiction to Yamcha being a playboy.

Saiga posted an official translation saying that Puar expected Yamcha to kill them. You said that the official translation might have made a mistake. I'm asking you to prove it.

As said earlier, Yamcha comes by a sleeping and defenseless Goku in chapter 9. Instead of going for an easy kill, Yamcha just simply moves him out of Oolong's line of sight.

He had minimal involvement in some, but he didn't out and out write any of them. So they don't matter, we're strictly talking about the manga here.

When has Toriyama said "The movies don't matter?"

So? That attack could simply be the best for the scenario. What else would he use? Kamehameha? Solar Flare? Kienzan?

The dramatic way the attack is shown with the beam curving upward to rain from the sky shows it was unique.

Then post a quote and what translation you are using. Because that really contradicts what Nappa says right before, as well as the power gap between these foes.

Vegeta's words:

"Your Comrade underestimated his foe.."

"Didn't I tell him to go all out"

No, he was surprised that Ten BEAT it and was stronger than it.

Most of their foes couldn't even come close to saibaman even when they weren't going all out.

Basically Nappa thought the humans were a joke in combat and couldn't even come close to matching one of their saibamen.

There's a little dot on the helmet that she presses right before the laser fires. That's probably where it's fired from. And where else would the blast be coming from, her forehead?

She didn't press it, she did a motion with her hands around the jewel on her helmet.

Even before that, Chi-Chi threw the blade with enough force to decapitate the T-rex.

Actually they'd just previously been beaten up by Goku.

Actually, they'd been beating up Goku at the moment as Bulma was held hostage.

While Goku did beat them, that was earlier.

You HAVE actually lied, like when you said Toriyama directly contradicted Yamcha being a cheater, even though to do that he'd have to actually say "Yamcha didn't cheat".

Thats not a lie, its my view that his line heavily contradicts Yamcha being a playboy. You can say it doesn't, but thats your opinion, and not fact.

You're just attacking fans for their opinion in a thread about expressing opinions.

[RandomGuy96]

For all we know, he could've just said "Yamcha is a flirted" or something similar.

Yeah, if you want to make things up to make Yamcha look better. If he said that Yamcha was a cheater, I see no reason why to not believe him.

Except he gave a very huge contradiction to Yamcha being a playboy.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

As said earlier, Yamcha comes by a sleeping and defenseless Goku in chapter 9. Instead of going for an easy kill, Yamcha just simply moves him out of Oolong's line of sight.

So you're not actually going to answer my question, then?

When has Toriyama said "The movies don't matter?"

He has said that he considers the movies in a different dimension than the manga.

The dramatic way the attack is shown with the beam curving upward to rain from the sky shows it was unique.

Dramatic way the attack is shown? What is that even supposed to mean?

Not really, it's just the way he's directing the blast. It's not suggested to be any stronger than a regular ki blast. And even if it is, Yamcha still looks terrible in comparison, since Krillin can casually produce six blasts stronger than his Kamehameha.

Vegeta's words:

"Your Comrade underestimated his foe.."

"Didn't I tell him to go all out"

That sounds less like it was holding back, and more like he's surprised that it lost. It holding back makes no sense given the power gaps and what Nappa said.

What translation is that from?

Most of their foes couldn't even come close to saibaman even when they weren't going all out.

Basically Nappa thought the humans were a joke in combat and couldn't even come close to matching one of their saibamen.

No, he was specifically surprised by Ten easily defeating it and surpassing it in pure power. Not that he was close.

Even if it was holding back, which I highly, highly doubt, feats show that Ten would have one-shotted it anyway with the power advantage he had.

She didn't press it, she did a motion with her hands around the jewel on her helmet.

Even before that, Chi-Chi threw the blade with enough force to decapitate the T-rex.

The blade could have just been really sharp.

Actually, they'd been beating up Goku at the moment as Bulma was held hostage.

While Goku did beat them, that was earlier.

It was right before, not that much earlier.

Thats not a lie, its my view that his line heavily contradicts Yamcha being a playboy. You can say it doesn't, but thats your opinion, and not fact.

You're just attacking fans for their opinion in a thread about expressing opinions.

If you said "in my opinion, what Toriyama said here doesn't fit with what he said there", that wouldn't be a lie. However, just saying "he directly contradicted it" is indeed a lie.

No, I'm expressing my annoyance with fans who'd rather make things up than accept information from the author.

[Gonstead]

I actually dislike #17 and #18. They have cool design but they are so dull. They beat up the heroes, then go driving for a couple of chapters until Cell absorbs them. Lame.

Agreed. It's one reason I prefer to call it "Cell Saga" instead of "Android Saga".