Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Dyno wrote:Seriously. Now I really would like to hear (read, of course) a good explanation of how Freeza not surviving is a good thing.
I would also like a good explanation about how Freeza surviving would have been a good thing.
He has nothing more to give us, even bringing him back again may be too much. He would either survive because Goku or Vegeta would show him mercy, which would have been dumb & OOC (and I'm really curious to learn in what sense Goku showed him mercy in the movie...), or because he would have been lucky. I mean, let's say he survives... then what? Would we see another movie with Freeza as the main villain again? He isn't even the kind of guy who would become good, he is an evil motherfucker that is worse than Hitler. Even if Toriyama had turned him into a good guy, it would ruin his character, because Freeza is an iconic villain of the franchise, and he is supposed to be pure evil.
Mystic Tien wrote:But it is blue
Regular Super Saiyan turned blue.
rereboy wrote:Its the biggest single power-up of the franchise. And its justification is "training for 4 months".
And that he was born with a battle power of 84 million. Plus, we don't know what kind of training he was doing (yet?).
Sandubadear wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
"No way Vegeta became a Super Saiyan God off-screen, we will see it in the new movie, and it will be blue!" NOPE.
So Vegeta really did it off-screen?
Yes, he had already absorbed its power by the time the movie begun.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Beerus-sama wrote:
Because Goku was close to Whis, and he activated a barrier.
This is my point, that means that Whis immediately reacted to Freeza's attack, why he couldn't save Vegeta or Earth?
Because he wasn't close, Whis Barrier isn't bigger enough to cover all the planet.
maybe the Earth was already exploding when Whis activated it?
Sleeping until the tournament is over.
Spoiler:
Araki wrote:
These days people start throwing the words "filler" and "silce of life" everytime characters aren't punching each other. No matter if something is moving the plot or there's character exposition.
Imagine if DB started these days. It would go like this:
"hey, what's happening in Dragon Ball today?"
"Goku wants Mutenroshi to train him, so he's bringing him some chicks now."
"oh i see, just slice of life filler then. skippable. "
Actually, that's not a very good quality. For example, when he made his art even more angular after being told it was too angular lately, he just made his art worse. It's one thing to defy expectations, its another to be excessively defiant.
Freeza would never become good so i'm not sure you got that from.
Surviving Goku's attack or being saved from an evil God of Destruction is what should have happened to build of the plot that BoG laid down. Except Toriyama a shit and took the easy route.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He has nothing more to give us, even bringing him back again may be too much. He would either survive because Goku or Vegeta would show him mercy, which would have been dumb & OOC (and I'm really curious to learn in what sense Goku showed him mercy in the movie...), or because he would have been lucky. I mean, let's say he survives... then what? Would we see another movie with Freeza as the main villain again? He isn't even the kind of guy who would become good, he is an evil motherfucker that is worse than Hitler. Even if Toriyama had turned him into a good guy, it would ruin his character, because Freeza is an iconic villain of the franchise, and he is supposed to be pure evil.
Dyno wrote:EXACTLY! And actually keeping him around would serve a real purpose since the beginning of bringing him back, if he dies, then clearly it is just fan-service/popularity. Why bringing him back just to die!? Why bringing him back is a good idea? And worse, why bringing him back to die in the same movie and yet again is a good idea!? Oh, man... What times are these?
Adding more: What is the point of bringing him back just to die?! He surviving at least would lead to something else, we don't know. It is obvious that I don't like even knowing Freeza is the one coming back at all, but if it is what the author wanted, okay, but do it to lead to something useful, if he dies... Man, ridiculous, just ridiculous, fan-service/popularity/song.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
So Vegeta really did it off-screen?
Yes, he had already absorbed its power by the time the movie begun.
Holy shit. Vegeta is one hell of a fast leaner.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
And that he was born with a battle power of 84 million. Plus, we don't know what kind of training he was doing (yet?).
So what? Trunks and Goten, in the Buu arc, with just 7 years of being alive and no real training besides playing around, were already stronger than Freeza. Goten didn't even know how to fly.
Last edited by rereboy on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm no mod, but this guy is getting really violent with his dislike a movie he hasn't even seen.
So, anyone knows how does the majority of the people who actually watched the movie think of it?. Like, most people in the screening think it's good, or most people think it's bad?. in fact, what do the japanese (general audience) think of BoG?
Last edited by Black_Liger on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There's room for only one snake, and one big boss.
Actually, that's not a very good quality. For example, when he made his art even more angular after being told it was too angular lately, he just made his art worse. It's one thing to defy expectations, its another to be excessively defiant.
Toriyama knows how take criticism just as much knows how to troll people. Evidence of that was during the Android arc with the designs of the proposed main villains.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
So Vegeta really did it off-screen?
Yes, he had already absorbed its power by the time the movie begun.
Holy shit. Vegeta is one hell of a fast leaner.
Goku did it in 5 minutes. So I think Vegeta could too over the 2 or 3 year gap.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Dyno wrote:Seriously. Now I really would like to hear (read, of course) a good explanation of how Freeza not surviving is a good thing.
I would also like a good explanation about how Freeza surviving would have been a good thing.
He has nothing more to give us, even bringing him back again may be too much. He would either survive because Goku or Vegeta would show him mercy, which would have been dumb & OOC (and I'm really curious to learn in what sense Goku showed him mercy in the movie...), or because he would have been lucky. I mean, let's say he survives... then what? Would we see another movie with Freeza as the main villain again? He isn't even the kind of guy who would become good, he is an evil motherfucker that is worse than Hitler. Even if Toriyama had turned him into a good guy, it would ruin his character, because Freeza is an iconic villain of the franchise, and he is supposed to be pure evil.
I'd argue that Vegeta was worse than Frieza in Saiyan Saga, though after this movie they are kind of on the same scale. No one expected for Vegeta to become good (unless obviously they knew prior it), yet he turned from one of the evilest characters in the series to a proper hero. Comparing Saiyan Saga Vegeta and post Buu saga Vegeta, it is like two completely different persons. Vegeta was an iconic villain, who became one the most beloved characters in Dragon Ball franchise, after becoming good (well, at least for saiyan standards). And he is the same guy who stated that he was pure evil all the way in Android Saga, even after both Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga already ended.
But Goku is exactly known for being dumb. This is the same Goku, who spared Piccolo Jr, released Raditz's tail, told Krillin to spare Vegeta, spared Frieza, giving him some energy to survive and finally gave Cell a senzu bean. Goku is known for acting dumb in a lot of situations.
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
We need to send him letters asking him never let anyone except Goku save the day and how amazing 5 second recolors are as designs. Then he will do the opposite to 'troll' us
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Regular Super Saiyan turned blue.
Actually it is Super Saiyan God by Kei's words.
It's not "Super Saiyan God" though, it's Super Saiyan...with godly energy. Meaning this isn't a powerup of the magenta form.
What am I even reading lol. I'm praying Julian's ummary will contain detailed explanation what the blue thing is 'cause everything I've read so far makes little sense. Unless it because it made little sense and wasn't even explained in the movie itself
Last edited by Basaku on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Whis is quite a mysterious character, what if he's got an ulterior motive? Possibly training Goku and Vegeta to invade other universes?
An SSG can't give their power to another saiyan to make them an SSG, Vegeta makes Bulla for another 5th saiyan
Also this is the first time the bad guy could be beat by the Z fighters and was weaker than the previous antagonist, there was no need for a power-up etc.
Actually, that's not a very good quality. For example, when he made his art even more angular after being told it was too angular lately, he just made his art worse. It's one thing to defy expectations, its another to be excessively defiant.
Toriyama knows how take criticism just as much knows how to troll people. Evidence of that was during the Android arc with the designs of the proposed main villains.
If he always knew how to to that, he wouldn't make the art even more angular when it was already too angular.
Beerus-sama wrote:
Because Goku was close to Whis, and he activated a barrier.
This is my point, that means that Whis immediately reacted to Freeza's attack, why he couldn't save Vegeta or Earth?
Because he wasn't close, Whis Barrier isn't bigger enough to cover all the planet.
maybe the Earth was already exploding when Whis activated it?
That actually makes sense, maybe they were far away from Frieza, and Whis couldn't create the barrier immediately because of that, but as soon as Earth started exploding, he created the barrier. Makes me wonder though, if Whis' barrier was completely undamaged after Planet Earth exploded or if Whis somehow moved this barrier from a planet to lessen damage to it.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sandubadear wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
So Vegeta really did it off-screen?
Yes, he had already absorbed its power by the time the movie begun.
Holy shit. Vegeta is one hell of a fast leaner.
We don't know for sure, do we? But it seems to be like that, if not how could he have possibly achieved the same form as Goku did?
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
Black_Liger wrote: in fact, what do the japanese (general audience) think of BoG?
I remember someone saying that most japanese felows enjoyed the movie, but some were disappointed for Goku not being heroic enough. like the other movies.
Don't know what they are thinking about this one.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A world without Dragon Ball is just boring.
Favourite old DB Animators: Masaki Sato and Tadayoshi Yamamuro
Favourite new DB Animators: Yuya Takahashi and Chikashi Kubota
Yes x10. It's what I'm most excited to see in this movie. Post Buu arc Vegeta handling Gokû is so much fun from what little I've seen of it. The chemistry is beautiful.
Never change. 
Oh, man... What times are these? 
