Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Roronoa-pt]

I believe Gohan wasn't holding back. After their fight, both Gohan and Piccolo were tired as hell ( fast breathing ).
If he was holding his power, he wouldn't be that tired.

[Hugo Boss]

Gohan's hair was also spiky when he fought Beerus and back then he transformed into Super Saiyan either way.

Gohan didn't go SSj when he fought Beerus,it was his Ultimate.He only went SSj when they make the god ritual.And there's no evidence to suggest that Gohan can't go SSj if he have his Ultimate state.

Actually, there is. When Gohan tries to become a Super Saiyan, he becomes "something else that resembles his regular form". It's like saying Goku can become a Super Saiyan when he has Super Saiyan Blue.

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan's hair was also spiky when he fought Beerus and back then he transformed into Super Saiyan either way.

Gohan didn't go SSj when he fought Beerus,it was his Ultimate.He only went SSj when they make the god ritual.And there's no evidence to suggest that Gohan can't go SSj if he have his Ultimate state.

Actually, there is. When Gohan tries to become a Super Saiyan, he becomes "something else that resembles his regular form". It's like saying Goku can become a Super Saiyan when he has Super Saiyan Blue.

Gohan was told to "do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." He didn't "try to go Super Saiyan and become something else that resembles his regular form." There is clearly a different process to going "ultimate" than just going Super Saiyan.

[TheMikado]

The above is actually true. When Gohan powers up he had two different branches. 1) Mystic which is preferred as it is more powerful and puts no strain on him, and the regular SSJ tiers which could be considered the brute force method of powering up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQrK3UYlzr0

[Doctor.]

Here's my tier list as of now, simplified as all hell. I'd try to fit GT in this mess, but that would be the death of me; I'd probably have to increase Vegetto's power a whole lot so that I could stuff in the GT powerlevels in there without having the low tiers being stronger than Beerus and the like.

Spoiler:

Boo arc:
Goku: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50
-- Super Saiyan 2: 100
-- Super Saiyan 3: 400

Kid Boo: 420

Fat Boo: 335
-- Mr. Boo: 134
-- Evil Boo: 201

Gotenks: 8
-- Super Saiyan: 400
-- Super Saiyan 3: 3,200

Gohan: 4,800

Super Boo: 2,800
-- Gotenks absorbed: 6,000
-- Gohan absorbed: 7,600

Gogeta (hypothetically): 14.5
-- Super Saiyan: 725
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,450
-- Super Saiyan 3: 5,800

Vegetto: 200
-- Super Saiyan: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 20,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 80,000

Battle of Gods arc:
Goku: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Super Saiyan 3: 440

Vegeta: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Mutated Super Saiyan 2: 50,000

Gogeta (hypothetically): 15.95
-- Super Saiyan: 797.5
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,595
-- Super Saiyan 3: 6,380

Vegetto (hypothetically): 220
-- Super Saiyan: 11,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 22,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 88,000

Super Saiyan God: 250,000
-- After power-up: 450,000
-- Full Power: 600,000

Goku: 60,000
-- Super Saiyan: 600,000

Beerus: 1,000,000
-- 70%: 700,000
-- 10%: 100,000

Whis: 1,500,000

Resurrection 'F' arc:
Goku: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 730,000

Vegeta: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 740,000

Freeza: 450
-- Final Form: 65,000
-- Golden Form: 800,000

Gohan: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50

Piccolo: 25

Tagoma: 32
-- Ginyu: 35

Universe 6:
Goku: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Vegeta: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Monaka: 950,000

Piccolo: 5,000
Mr. Boo: 134

Champa: 990,000
Vados: 1,550,000

Botamo: 10,000

Piccolo and Botamo's power are complete guesses, of course.

[namekiansaiyan]

Here's my tier list as of now, simplified as all hell. I'd try to fit GT in this mess, but that would be the death of me; I'd probably have to increase Vegetto's power a whole lot so that I could stuff in the GT powerlevels in there without having the low tiers being stronger than Beerus and the like.

Spoiler:

Boo arc:
Goku: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50
-- Super Saiyan 2: 100
-- Super Saiyan 3: 400

Kid Boo: 420

Fat Boo: 335
-- Mr. Boo: 134
-- Evil Boo: 201

Gotenks: 8
-- Super Saiyan: 400
-- Super Saiyan 3: 3,200

Gohan: 4,800

Super Boo: 2,800
-- Gotenks absorbed: 6,000
-- Gohan absorbed: 7,600

Gogeta (hypothetically): 14.5
-- Super Saiyan: 725
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,450
-- Super Saiyan 3: 5,800

Vegetto: 200
-- Super Saiyan: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 20,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 80,000

Battle of Gods arc:
Goku: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Super Saiyan 3: 440

Vegeta: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Mutated Super Saiyan 2: 50,000

Gogeta (hypothetically): 15.95
-- Super Saiyan: 797.5
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,595
-- Super Saiyan 3: 6,380

Vegetto (hypothetically): 220
-- Super Saiyan: 11,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 22,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 88,000

Super Saiyan God: 250,000
-- After power-up: 450,000
-- Full Power: 600,000

Goku: 60,000
-- Super Saiyan: 600,000

Beerus: 1,000,000
-- 70%: 700,000
-- 10%: 100,000

Whis: 1,500,000

Resurrection 'F' arc:
Goku: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 730,000

Vegeta: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 740,000

Freeza: 450
-- Final Form: 65,000
-- Golden Form: 800,000

Gohan: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50

Piccolo: 25

Tagoma: 32
-- Ginyu: 35

Universe 6:
Goku: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Vegeta: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Monaka: 950,000

Piccolo: 5,000
Mr. Boo: 134

Champa: 990,000
Vados: 1,550,000

Botamo: 10,000

Piccolo and Botamo's power are complete guesses, of course.

Yes they are complete guesses I think you have way underestimated Piccolo's and Botamo's power, remember Goku is struggling according to the episode 33 summary.

[ZombieVito]

Here's my tier list as of now, simplified as all hell. I'd try to fit GT in this mess, but that would be the death of me; I'd probably have to increase Vegetto's power a whole lot so that I could stuff in the GT powerlevels in there without having the low tiers being stronger than Beerus and the like.

Spoiler:

Boo arc:
Goku: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50
-- Super Saiyan 2: 100
-- Super Saiyan 3: 400

Kid Boo: 420

Fat Boo: 335
-- Mr. Boo: 134
-- Evil Boo: 201

Gotenks: 8
-- Super Saiyan: 400
-- Super Saiyan 3: 3,200

Gohan: 4,800

Super Boo: 2,800
-- Gotenks absorbed: 6,000
-- Gohan absorbed: 7,600

Gogeta (hypothetically): 14.5
-- Super Saiyan: 725
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,450
-- Super Saiyan 3: 5,800

Vegetto: 200
-- Super Saiyan: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 20,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 80,000

Battle of Gods arc:
Goku: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Super Saiyan 3: 440

Vegeta: 1.1
-- Super Saiyan: 55
-- Super Saiyan 2: 120
-- Mutated Super Saiyan 2: 50,000

Gogeta (hypothetically): 15.95
-- Super Saiyan: 797.5
-- Super Saiyan 2: 1,595
-- Super Saiyan 3: 6,380

Vegetto (hypothetically): 220
-- Super Saiyan: 11,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 22,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 88,000

Super Saiyan God: 250,000
-- After power-up: 450,000
-- Full Power: 600,000

Goku: 60,000
-- Super Saiyan: 600,000

Beerus: 1,000,000
-- 70%: 700,000
-- 10%: 100,000

Whis: 1,500,000

Resurrection 'F' arc:
Goku: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 730,000

Vegeta: 72,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 740,000

Freeza: 450
-- Final Form: 65,000
-- Golden Form: 800,000

Gohan: 1
-- Super Saiyan: 50

Piccolo: 25

Tagoma: 32
-- Ginyu: 35

Universe 6:
Goku: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Vegeta: 75,000
-- After training: 82,000
----- Super Saiyan Blue: 820,000

Monaka: 950,000

Piccolo: 5,000
Mr. Boo: 134

Champa: 990,000
Vados: 1,550,000

Botamo: 10,000

Piccolo and Botamo's power are complete guesses, of course.

The only problems I can see is that base Gohan > Piccolo in the RoF arc and Freeza should be equal to base Goku in his final form.

[Hugo Boss]

Gohan was told to "do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." He didn't "try to go Super Saiyan and become something else that resembles his regular form." There is clearly a different process to going "ultimate" than just going Super Saiyan.

I suppose the "...throw in a kiai..." bit from manga in this context means "make wind gusts with your ki [as you power-up]", no? I can see that is not just going Super Saiyan, there is some magical stuff happening, but Gohan didn't just figure out a different way to power-up. When he asked how to become "the strongest warrior", the elder Kaioshin told him to power-up like when he transforms into a Super Saiyan, to which Gohan responds: "Like Super Saiyan, huh? Got it!" (Episode #141 of Dragon Ball Kai, for reference). Given that Gohan was used to go Super Saiyan, his part in the process should be way too simple.

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan was told to "do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." He didn't "try to go Super Saiyan and become something else that resembles his regular form." There is clearly a different process to going "ultimate" than just going Super Saiyan.

I suppose the "...throw in a kiai..." bit from manga in this context means "make wind gusts with your ki [as you power-up]", no? I can see that is not just going Super Saiyan, there is some magical stuff happening, but Gohan didn't just figure out a different way to power-up. When he asked how to become "the strongest warrior", the elder Kaioshin told him to power-up like when he transforms into a Super Saiyan, to which Gohan responds: "Like Super Saiyan, huh? Got it!" (Episode #141 of Dragon Ball Kai, for reference). Given that Gohan was used to go Super Saiyan, his part in the process should be way too simple.

That's an anime line. In the manga, it uses the line I provided. Check Herms' strength checker if you require proof. It's clearly defined as a different process than going Super Saiyan.

[Hugo Boss]

I see your point. However, it is the anime that seems to elaborate further on the "power-up like Super Saiyan" subject. And since we are discussing power levels derived from anime...

[Kamiccolo9]

I see your point. However, it is the anime that seems to elaborate further on the "power-up like Super Saiyan" subject. And since we are discussing power levels derived from anime...

From a different anime. Super is not Z. Nor do we know how it relates to the various other adaptations in the franchise.

[Hugo Boss]

I see your point. However, it is the anime that seems to elaborate further on the "power-up like Super Saiyan" subject. And since we are discussing power levels derived from anime...

From a different anime. Super is not Z. Nor do we know how it relates to the various other adaptations in the franchise.

I'm not referring to Z, but Kai, which Super takes flashbacks from.

On a side note, you may actually be right. When Gohan fought Freeza he couldn't further power-up without becoming Super Saiyan, then he was trying to do something else and failed. We have yet to see how it works once he is trained again.

[ROCKYIII]

It's hard to believe bog vegeta ssj2 could be stronger than buuhan. He was told everyone he loves is dead before fusion and it didn't really make him that much stronger in the buu arc which makes sense. It felt like there were stakes and back then there always needed to be something drastic done to overcome such a behemoth of an opponent. The only person who has ever been shown to have such overwhelmingly powerful rage boosts is gohan... But w/e

[buutenks]

Not so hard,ultimate gohan got swatted aside by beerus while he had to try a little against raging vegeta.

Edit;no doubt mystic gohan isnt as strong as his buu saga self,but i doubt hes that much weaker,id say he proly dropped to super buu level,due to not training.

I believe Gohan wasn't holding back. After their fight, both Gohan and Piccolo were tired as hell ( fast breathing ).
If he was holding his power, he wouldn't be that tired.

Most say base gohan>piccolo due to him being able to tank hits better from a full power ginyu/tagoma,while piccolo got crippled by a non full power tagoma.

As for the training,guessing gohan is out of shape so while his BP is above piccolo's his endurance is pretty crappy.

[Hugo Boss]

It's hard to believe bog vegeta ssj2 could be stronger than buuhan. He was told everyone he loves is dead before fusion and it didn't really make him that much stronger in the buu arc which makes sense. It felt like there were stakes and back then there always needed to be something drastic done to overcome such a behemoth of an opponent. The only person who has ever been shown to have such overwhelmingly powerful rage boosts is gohan... But w/e

Back then, Vegeta didn't care so much about Bulma as he does in Super. He even is jealous about her now. But that fact at least made Vegeta take the decision to merge with Goku, so that would count as a way to surpass his pride and create something/someone very powerful. Though, when Cell killed Future Trunks he went from a level where he could barely fight back a Cell Jr. to making the powered-up Cell brace itself to tank his attacks.

no doubt mystic gohan isnt as strong as his buu saga self,but i doubt hes that much weaker,id say he proly dropped to super buu level,due to not training.

Judging from how Goku and Vegeta were choosing fighters to fill Beerus' team, they might consider even the good Boo stronger than Gohan.

[Noah]

Will anyone comment about Bulma's yesterday feat?

She punched Jaco so hard that formed a hole in the ground, considering Jaco is somewhat 1,000~1,500 BP could we say Bulma is strong as a Saibamen?

[Hugo Boss]

If Pissed Bulma got the same power boost as Pissed Vegeta, she becomes thousands of times more powerful than an ordinary m.i.l.*.

[Helios518]

Will anyone comment about Bulma's yesterday feat?

She punched Jaco so hard that formed a hole in the ground, considering Jaco is somewhat 1,000~1,500 BP could we say Bulma is strong as a Saibamen?

It's a gag feat. In one of the recent episodes, She slapped Beerus and actually hurt him.

[Noah]

It's a gag feat. In one of the recent episodes, She slapped Beerus and actually hurt him.

Hmm this might be more difficult than I thought, so It's a number between a Saibamen and a restrained Beerus?

[Bullza]

I took a look at the new chapter (I couldn't help myself ) and there's something of interest to discuss again now.

Spoilers below so stop if you don't wanna know what happens in the newest chapter.






Goku in his base form beat Botamo and not with a huge amount of difficulty. So I'd place Botamo around that of Frieza in his final form.

Frost in his first form might be stronger than Botamo because Goku was fighting more seriously however Frost never hit him whereas Botamo did so again I'd say he's around Frieza in his final form.

Frost in his third form only fought briefly but this time he was able to hit Goku but he was unharmed by it.

So perhaps something like

Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Golden Freeza - 8
SSJB Goku - 7
SSJB Vegeta - 7
SSJG Goku - 6
Goku - 3.5
Vegeta - 3.5
Frost (Third Form) - 3.2
Frost (First Form) - 3.0
Botamo - 3.0
Frieza (Final Form) - 2.9